Insulin made my abyssinian very unwell... advice?

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Abayomi10

Abayomi10

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Hello everyone, my old boy (16 at the end of the month) was diagnosed with diabetes. We put him on a very low carb diet, canned food under 6 carbs for two weeks and his blood sugar went from 29 to 22... so still very high. My vet started him on Caninsalin (I’m in Canada) at a very low dose, 1 unit and it made him very, very unwell! We also tried Cerenia hoping it would make his tummy feel a little better so maybe he would eat more. This morning both the insulin and cerenia has worn off and he felt much better and was eating again. We just can’t keep weight on him. We are going to try and appetite stimulant tomorrow but I’m concerned about how high his blood sugar is. Anyone have a similar experience and can offer advice? My vet suspects pancreatic cancer. Any advice or comments would be so appreciated. Thanks so much!

Tracy
 
Welcome! Sorry you’re having so many problems. How was he unwell? Sometimes as the insulin begins to work and kitty’s blood glucose drops to normal levels it can make them feel bad because they aren’t used to it. It is very important that he eat, so the appetite stimulant is good, but sometimes an anti nausea pill is needed as well, so maybe ask your vet about that too.
 
It's very hard to know for sure that it's the Caninsulin making him feel unwell. It's true though that not all insulins agree with a kitty. There are a ton of reasons why he might be feeling icky as you start insulin:
  • the insulin itself
  • the way the insulin can drop BG to a level the kitty's body isn't used to after being high for a while
  • the fact that Caninsulin acts quickly and can drop BG steeply
  • other common issues with diabetic cats like pancreatitis (pain, lack of appetite, nausea, vomiting, etc.)
  • some other health issue.
An unregulated diabetic cat will lose weight because their own pancreas isn't producing enough insulin to get the glucose from their food into their cells. They're starving, basically. If they don't get injected insulin of if the dose is too low the problem will continue. The high blood sugar alone can make them feel unwell but it's very hard to separate out all the factors.

If he needs insulin and doesn't get it there's a risk for development of ketones that come from them using their own fat/muscle to get energy because they can't get it from their food. We always recommend testing urine for ketones (with human ketone test strips from any pharmacy) at least daily when you're trying to figure out the insulin thing:

How to test for urine ketones at home:
  • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
  • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
  • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

Why did your vet suggest it might be pancreatic cancer? Has he had an ultrasound done that showed a mass?

To finish off:
  • he needs insulin and it might be a bit too early to rule out Caninsulin
  • Cerenia is generally helpful for GI issues but he might need a stronger antinausea med and an appetite stimulant med too soon to know.
 
Thanks so much for replying! Jumoke is an Abyssinian and will be 16 on the 29th. He was vomiting on and off for a while. For whatever reason when he was given antibiotics he would stop. I took him in for some blood work as he was loosing weight and getting wee infections and everything came back great (especially for his age) except his glucose. I believe she said it was 29 (I’m in Canada so not sure if the numbers are different). His A1C was also high. He was eating not too bad but kept loosing weight. My vet started him on Caninsulin (1unit) I believe he is around 3.8kg.... as well as a 1/2 of the Cerenia around 11am a few days ago and Within a short time he looked absolutely horrible. Wouldn’t eat at all, didn’t want to be touched, hair stood straight up and he has that very uncomfortable upsetting stare. He went back and forth to the water bowl every 15 minutes. We waited a while and as the evening went on he seemed to feel a little better. So we didn’t give him his next injection 12 hours from the first. The next morning he seemed quite perky and much better so my vet said give him the Caninsulin 1 unit again (no Cerenia) and within a short time he was horrible again. This time she said to give him a little glucose and see if he felt a little better so I did and it did seem to help a little. These were the only two times he had the insulin. That next morning (yesterday) I was to give him the Cerena and again, he seemed to feel horrible. Wouldn’t touch food (so I was force feeding him, even gave him some IV Fluids... again as the day went on, he started feeling better in the early evening about 12 hours after taking the Cerenia.

So my vet said that both the Caninsulin and the Cerenia didn’t agree with him. Today we started him on a 2mg appetite stimulate (mertazapine) and it does seem to be helping as he has eaten much more this afternoon and even wanting to take bigger bites.

My concern is... what about his blood sugar? what is normal when starting insulin? Does this sound normal? Do we try something else? I’m concerned about his weight. His kidneys are good... everything else seems good. Although he is wasting away. I would love to hear what others went through when starting insulin or anything that may help.

Thanks so much!! I’m very worried about my baby! we love him so much!
 
Abayomi10 said:
My concern is... what about his blood sugar? what is normal when starting insulin? Does this sound normal? Do we try something else? I’m concerned about his weight. His kidneys are good... everything else seems good. Although he is wasting away. I would love to hear what others went through when starting insulin or anything that may help.
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With BG that high he needs insulin. I'm in Canada too so I understand those numbers. He's at risk for developing ketones if he doesn't get insulin. There are other choices: ProZinc, Lantus, Levemir. Ask your vet about those.
 
I’m glad the appy stimulant is helping. Are you home testing his glucose? With the high numbers and the weight loss, I would agree with Kris that he needs insulin. Pick up some ketone test strips and test for ketones too.
 
Sharon14 said:
I’m glad the appy stimulant is helping. Are you home testing his glucose? With the high numbers and the weight loss, I would agree with Kris that he needs insulin. Pick up some ketone test strips and test for ketones too.
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This is all new to me. I have a lot of reading to do. I did email and ask about home testing as I’m happy to do anything. What is ketones? He really has eaten much more today which is good but I’m sure that will raise his BS as well. He is very low in the hocks when he walks.
 
Sharon14 said:
I’m glad the appy stimulant is helping. Are you home testing his glucose? With the high numbers and the weight loss, I would agree with Kris that he needs insulin. Pick up some ketone test strips and test for ketones too.
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Thank you! I will certainly ask her. I know she wanted to see if the appetite stimulant was going to work which it seems to be working quite well! I was force feeding him all weekend and even gave him Sub Q Fluids. He seems somewhat better today.

What canned foods are you feeding that are low in carbs? it’s hard to find ones that are low and ones he will eat. I’m feeding Weruva, DM, fancy feast classics and some friskies as he does like it but I prefer to give him higher quality foods, especially as he is 16 very soon. Thanks so much!
 
For the walking on the hocks, that’s neuropathy. You need some methyl B12. I use Zobaline which is made for diabetic cats, but I’m not sure of its availability in Canada. Maybe Kris can help with that? Ketones can be formed when they aren’t getting enough insulin, they aren’t getting enough calories or there’s an infection present. You can pick up test strips at any pharmacy. Simply stick it in a tiny urine sample. As for food, my cat has a condition that makes him hungry all the time, so I don’t have trouble getting him to eat. I’m in the U.S., so not sure if we have the same food choices, but I basically go to the pet food store and look at the labels. You want there to be no grain, potatoes, tapioca, or other starches. Weruva is a good one as is Tiki Cat and Wellness.
 
Sharon14 said:
Oops, forgot home testing. You can use a pet meter which has very expensive strips, or a human meter which reads lower but is more affordable. Most of us opt for the human version. Again I don’t know the choices you have in Canada, so Kris will be better able to help with that. Here’s some info to get you started
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
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Oh this is wonderful information! THANK YOU!!i will look into the home testing.
 
Re Zobaline: You can't buy it in Canada but it can be ordered from their website. However, shipping is expensive and there's no guarantee it won't be confiscated at the border. You can buy methylcobalamin B12 supplement pills in a human pharmacy usually up to 1500 mcg dose (1.5 mg). Zobaline is 3000 mcg (3 mg). Just look for ones with no added sugar. They dissolve easily in water and are tasteless so they can be mixed with food. Make sure it's the methylcobalamin version.

Re glucose meter/strips: vets will sell you a pet meter, the AlphaTrak2, and the strips but the strips are outrageously expensive - $2 CAD per strip. Even human meter strips are expensive in Canada - $75+ per 100 strips. You can usually get a free human meter if you buy 100 strips. Call around for prices. I got a free Freestyle Lite meter when I bought 100 strips at Shoppers Drug Mart. I like the meter because the strips need only a tiny blood drop and the meter isn't too fast to time out and gives a reading quickly. Shoppers certainly isn't the cheapest place but I take advantage of the 20% off for Seniors' Day and get points with the purchase. I've often been able to cash in points to buy strips. If you aren't in this demographic ask an older friend/relative to shop for you. Both Rexall and Shoppers sell Freestyle Lite strips for (rounded off) $90 per 100. With 20% off on Seniors' Day that comes down to $72 per 100. When I cash in Shoppers points I often pay very little for strips. They don't ask who they're for although my Shoppers knows it's for my cat. I also buy my insulin OTC there.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Re Zobaline: You can buy methylcobalamin B12 supplement pills in a human pharmacy usually up to 1500 mcg dose (1.5 mg). Zobaline is 3000 mcg (3 mg). Just look for ones with no added sugar. They dissolve easily in water and are tasteless so they can be mixed with food. Make sure it's the methylcobalamin version.
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I was just looking at ordering Zobaline (Jai has some hind leg neuropathy) - but would definitely welcome a much cheaper option, so I also looked into methylcobalamin. I keep finding a lot with fructose or mannitol in it (I know, not ok) but the other options have cherry flavoring, is that bad for Kitties? If so then this option seem to be only in 1000 mcg tablets - whats the correct daily dose for cats? 3mg (aka x3 of these tablets) or 1500 mcg? I pasted the ingredients for this last option below.
 

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JaiJai said:
I was just looking at ordering Zobaline (Jai has some hind leg neuropathy) - but would definitely welcome a much cheaper option, so I also looked into methylcobalamin. I keep finding a lot with fructose or mannitol in it (I know, not ok) but the other options have cherry flavoring, is that bad for Kitties? If so then this option seem to be only in 1000 mcg tablets - whats the correct daily dose for cats? 3mg (aka x3 of these tablets) or 1500 mcg? I pasted the ingredients for this last option below.
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Those might be the sublingual tablets, hence the flavouring. I've found unflavoured tablets in the past that have no sugar - might have been Jamieson's brand from a human pharmacy. If you go by Zobaline (3000 mcg = 3 mg) you could give 3 x 1000 mcg once a day.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Those might be the sublingual tablets, hence the flavouring. I've found unflavoured tablets in the past that have no sugar - might have been Jamieson's brand from a human pharmacy. If you go by Zobaline (3000 mcg = 3 mg) you could give 3 x 1000 mcg once a day.
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Yeah, lozenges - which I figured would be good to dissolve with her food. Does Zobaline dissolve well? Jai is not a pill cat and one less traumatic even per day would be welcome.
 
JaiJai said:
Yeah, lozenges - which I figured would be good to dissolve with her food. Does Zobaline dissolve well? Jai is not a pill cat and one less traumatic even per day would be welcome.
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The unflavoured pills I've had in the past dissolved very easily in a little water in the food dish and they were totally tasteless - checked myself. I mixed the dissolved pill into wet food.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I've found unflavoured tablets in the past that have no sugar - might have been Jamieson's brand from a human pharmacy.
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Ug, wish this unflavored versions were more common online, everything seems to be cherry and have some sort of sugar. I'll keep looking! Thanks for the help.
 
Hi Tracy,

I replied quickly to your other post on the main forum because I wanted others to see it, not realizing you posted here. I'm glad you got some feedback :)

I'm in Canada as well & I ordered Zobaline but when I run out of that I'm going to get Cobalequin because we can get it in Canada and it's similar to Zobaline, contains B12 & Folate. I can get it for $32 from my vet (for 45 tablets) and I'm sure it's probably on Amazon as well. This is the link if you want to read more about it: http://www.cobalequin.com/
 
LuanneP said:
Hi Tracy,

I replied quickly to your other post on the main forum because I wanted others to see it, not realizing you posted here. I'm glad you got some feedback :)

I'm in Canada as well & I ordered Zobaline but when I run out of that I'm going to get Cobalequin because we can get it in Canada and it's similar to Zobaline, contains B12 & Folate. I can get it for $32 from my vet (for 45 tablets) and I'm sure it's probably on Amazon as well. This is the link if you want to read more about it: http://www.cobalequin.com/
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Hi @LuanneP
Where did you get Cobalequin in Canada? Sorry for intruding on this thread.
 
LuanneP said:
I'm in Canada as well & I ordered Zobaline but when I run out of that I'm going to get Cobalequin because we can get it in Canada and it's similar to Zobaline, contains B12 & Folate. I can get it for $32 from my vet (for 45 tablets) and I'm sure it's probably on Amazon as well. This is the link if you want to read more about it: http://www.cobalequin.com/
Click to expand...

Looking at it, it seems the B12 is in the form of Cyanocobalamin and only 250mcg (micrograms) for "small" animals... Is the form of B12 as methylcobalamin better? Or am I missing something? Thanks.
 
JaiJai said:
Looking at it, it seems the B12 is in the form of Cyanocobalamin and only 250mcg (micrograms) for "small" animals... Is the form of B12 as methylcobalamin better? Or am I missing something? Thanks.
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Zobaline is methylcobalamin along with folic acid. It's the preferred form - something to do with cyanocobalamin having to be converted to methylC in the body so why not just give the usable form.
 
THIS methyl is ok for cats. Note it does not contain the folic acid which aids in absorption. Also check the strength against the Zobaline.
 
That is a small dose for the Cobalequin, I didn't realize it was that much smaller than Zobaline. Guess I will have to order Zobaline again. I've been giving it to Merry & two of my 16 yr old civvies.
 
No advice, just wanted to say I once had an Abyssinian. Someone dumped him at a kill shelter and I scooped him up for $20.
Amazing cats, right out of the jungle.
 
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