Introduction Post from Ollie's Mama, Cath.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ollies Mama

Member Since 2023
hi all,

Ollie is a 13y, 7 month long haired domestic. Vet says he has a mix of Maine Coon and Ragdoll somewhere because of his handsome looks and chilled disposition. He was a rescue I found in a plastic bag on the side of the road, at 3 months old, with his sister. Despite his history, he is very, very calm. Very very affectionate, can't be close enough, likes to be the little spoon in bed every night, eats all raw diet. The diet is a successful strategy to give him solid poo instead of explosive painful diarrhoea and retain weight. He was 4.2 kgs pre-raw, and he is now 6.1kgs raw diet.

Environmental: Ollie and I relocated from South Australia to Queensland (a distance of 2418kms) for work in July 2022. Prior to that, we lived with my daughter, another cat, Ace (who died at 18), and three female golden retrievers, Rosie, Ruby and Zoe. Ace and Ollie love the golden girls.

Stress Ollie has experienced: Flying in cargo on an aeroplane to new state, relocation, moving house x 2, weather changes, being shaved for the tropical weather, being trial-kennelled for 1 week in October 2022, when I went on a conference as a trial to being kennelled for 4 weeks when I had a family commitment back in Adelaide. March - April, 2023. The kennel managed his insulin strictly while I was away. They were passionate about this, and heard my anxiety about leaving him.

Pre-diagnosis symptoms: Weeing outside the litterbox, straining to pee, over-eating, vocal.

Vet: We arrived in new town July 2022 and I supported a quiet, stable settlement to assist in transition. No visitors, that kind of thing. We dont even have a TV. It's just me and Ollie. He peed outside of the litter box almost immediately which I accepted due to the move, but when I saw him straining, I took him to Vet.

October 2022 - Vet ruled out and stones with palpitation of stomach, said if he doesn't wee overnight, to bring him back. He did wee, so I didn't go back.

No reports of anything weird at the kennel for a week in October.

Outside of wee continued - i put it down to transitioning and his age.

6 March - dx with diabetes after I witnessed excessive eating, and excessive thirst, and alot of wee, still outside of the box. Tried different litter, box heights, styles to mitigate this without success. Now I understand he simply couldn't hold it. Using Caninsula, 1UC, every 12 hours, 6 am, and 6 pm, without issue. I give it to him while he's eating and he's none-the-wiser.

10 March - 17 April - kennel. This wasn't easy to do, I was very upset, and asked for regular pictures and reports on how he was travelling. I had to fly to Adelaide during this time to house-sit the three goldens while my daughter went on an overseas trip.

17-April - 5 May - Returns home with me. Relocated to new house as rental sold while I was away. Still peeing outside of box, compliant on insulin, eating like a horse, loving, affectionate self, tried different litters, different boxes, two upstairs, one downstairs.

6 May - woke up to vomit through the house, pale pink watery poo on edge of tray and on tiles in the house, and a very lethargic cat. Immediately rushed him to Vet at 8 am.

He was hospitalised at the Vet from 6th May until 9th May. After bloods and urine are completed, Vet suggests probably pancreatitis with a risk of triaditis, complicated by diabetes. No ketones present. He is treated with anti-nausea, antibiotics, vitamins, fluid and I packed his insulin. His visit was compromised as he didn't eat at all, even when he was through all of those bags of fluid.

9th May - they sent him home, in the hopes that a calm environment (opposed to stressful, scent-heavy vet environment) might help him relax and eat. I picked him up 430 pm and took him home. I was instructed that he required no pain relief on d'c, and if he didn't eat at 6pm, he doesn't get insulin. I tried repeatedly from 5pm until 7 am to slip little smudges of chicken, or pate on his cheek. He had about a teaspoon in total over 6+ hours, instead shaking the food out of his mouth. I was instructed to call in the morning with outcome. It was a long night.

Upon arriving home, He collapsed as soon as I lifted him out of his carrier. He had urinated in the carrier (he does this every single time he's in it). His back legs especially split, like a starfish. I put him on different surfaces thinking weakness and tiles don't mix - didn't matter, he was flattened on the rug.

Wanting to help him calm down (with the sole goal of eating)I held him close for about three hours. He nuzzled in, as he's an affectionate cat, at the best of times. I slept with him on the sofa all night. At 4 am, he indicated toilet, pee'd a bit on the sofa, before I lifted him to his tray nearby. I held him up while he pee'd, then gently lowered him, again, he cannot weight bare and he sat hard against the litter - something he would typically avoid. He didn't eat or drink despite my attempts.

6 am - no insulin on vet's recommendation.

At 7 am, i rang the vet, explaining all this, they said 'maybe he's relapsed' and bring him in.

At 8 am, at the vet, he defecated in the carrier again, and did a big wee. Thankfully the poo was normal, and not that pink (bile-coloured) poo. He was taken out the back and new bloods done. This, the vet surgeon said would be a good measure of if their treatment for pancreatitis was impactful, or not. Suggesting that would be a decision for me to make after they got the bloods. We also discussed feeding tube, which I consented for.

3pm, Vet calls. New bloods have shocked them, Ollie's actually recovering from the pancreatic illness, his GC is 6, and all of his clinical markers show improvement. They are now perplexed why this cat is so sick, and ask to do an ultrasound (at their cost) to examine if he has a pancreatic tumour, and will give him Anti-nausea, mirtazapine, and fluids. They are refraining from Insulin because his numbers are so great. The vet will call back once the ultrasound is done. They've also agreed to email the blood work, and I will upload it upon receipt.

Now i'm here, having purchased a Blood Glucose Plus Ketone Monitoring System (LifeSmart brand), sticks for blood and ketones, syringes and more on the hope that he is discharged back into my eager arms. I am reading the material available too.

So that's me and Ollie - right now, currently. Props to Bron for introducing me to the Forum and her gracious assistance,

Cath and Ollie.
 
Last edited:
Hi Cath,
So glad to see you have made it over here.
I'm very glad to hear there were no ketones present. That is really good news. And am glad they have him on a drip and antinausea meds and his bloods are improving. It is a bit of a mystery why he is not improving and why he was so lethargic at home.
If he doesn't start eating, a feeding tube will help a lot.

I'm going to ask @Bandit's Mom if she can set up your spreadsheet for you. She will contact you.
And when you have time if you can set up the signature...it only takes a couple of minutes and that will tell us all about Ollie.
You will find how to do it in this link
HELP US HELP YOU
Please let us know the result of the ultrasound. Are they doing it today?
Bron
 
Hi Cath,
So glad to see you have made it over here.
I'm very glad to hear there were no ketones present. That is really good news. And am glad they have him on a drip and antinausea meds and his bloods are improving. It is a bit of a mystery why he is not improving and why he was so lethargic at home.
If he doesn't start eating, a feeding tube will help a lot.

I'm going to ask @Bandit's Mom if she can set up your spreadsheet for you. She will contact you.
And when you have time if you can set up the signature...it only takes a couple of minutes and that will tell us all about Ollie.
You will find how to do it in this link
HELP US HELP YOU
Please let us know the result of the ultrasound. Are they doing it today?
Bron
Hello Bron! Thank you for warm welcome here. I have adjusted signature, am reading rest, and yes, they're doing the ultrasound today. They've just got a few surgeries so busy. They close in 60 mins, so I'm hopeful for a call, as they promised.
 
Hello Luv & Ollie! Welcome to FDMB! :) You're in great hands with Bron!

Just wanted to stop by and let you know that I can help set up your spreadsheet and signature. I will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.
Hello Bhooma, thank you for reaching out, regards to Bandit. I will watch for spreadsheet. I think I have done signature, but welcome feedback. Best, Cath.
 
Hello Bron! Thank you for warm welcome here. I have adjusted signature, am reading rest, and yes, they're doing the ultrasound today. They've just got a few surgeries so busy. They close in 60 mins, so I'm hopeful for a call, as they promised.
Thanks for setting up the signature. I see Ollie is on Caninsulin...not a very good cat insulin. As you can see by the name, it is a dog insulin. Cats have a much faster metabolism than dogs so the caninsulin does not last the 12 hours. If Ollie needs to go back on insulin I would ask to have him swapped to lantus which is a very good cat insulin. The name for it in Australia now is Optisulin. It can come in a pen but you can get syringes that go with the insulin and that is better as you can give smaller dose. If that happens Ill tell you what to get. no point in worrying about it just yet.
 
Thanks for setting up the signature. I see Ollie is on Caninsulin...not a very good cat insulin. As you can see by the name, it is a dog insulin. Cats have a much faster metabolism than dogs so the caninsulin does not last the 12 hours. If Ollie needs to go back on insulin I would ask to have him swapped to lantus which is a very good cat insulin. The name for it in Australia now is Optisulin. It can come in a pen but you can get syringes that go with the insulin and that is better as you can give smaller dose. If that happens Ill tell you what to get. no point in worrying about it just yet.
Thank you! I will ask about that, when/if the timing is right pending current outcome, Cath x
 
A lot of the blood tests have improved since the one done on 6th. His WCC has come down to normal.
And all the kidney ones are good. The ones that are still a bit out of kilter are not greatly out.
Ill tag @Suzanne & Darcy as she is very good at interpreting blood results.
Ill also tag @tiffmaxee as she has had cats with pancreatitis. They are both asleep at the moment but they will be on later at in the morning
 
Welcome to LLB. Max had chronic pancreatitis and when it was active had a high ALT. While it is a liver marker my internist said unless more than double the top range was not a concern but watch it to make sure it doesn’t get there. Some of the markers show possible anemia. What did your vet say about that? It’s good they are doing an ultrasound.

When Max was first diagnosed he gradually stopped eating. Having just lost my other cat at 10 to lymphoma I feared the worst. An ultrasound was done by a traveling vet who found everything wrong EXCEPT pancreatitis. I went back to my original vet who had his radiologist do another ultrasound and everything was normal except the pancreas and a SpecfPL test which showed pancreatitis.

I’m glad the labs are heading in the right direction and hopefully will continue that way. I hope this is just an acute flare and nothing more. :bighug:
 
Welcome to LLB. Max had chronic pancreatitis and when it was active had a high ALT. While it is a liver marker my internist said unless more than double the top range was not a concern but watch it to make sure it doesn’t get there. Some of the markers show possible anemia. What did your vet say about that? It’s good they are doing an ultrasound.

When Max was first diagnosed he gradually stopped eating. Having just lost my other cat at 10 to lymphoma I feared the worst. An ultrasound was done by a traveling vet who found everything wrong EXCEPT pancreatitis. I went back to my original vet who had his radiologist do another ultrasound and everything was normal except the pancreas and a SpecfPL test which showed pancreatitis.

I’m glad the labs are heading in the right direction and hopefully will continue that way. I hope this is just an acute flare and nothing more. :bighug:
hello, Tiff, thanks for your insights. Its 8 am here in my town, and the vet has just opened. They said they'd do the ultrasound first thing, so i'm up, coffee'd and waiting. I agree the labs are heading in the right direction.
Anaemia can be linked to cancer, so I'm hoping there are no masses. The vets are wanting answers.

I'm keen to discuss the anaemia and their treatment response for it.

Cheers
Cath
 
Update: Vet just called. Ultrasound scheduled for today - confirmed.

They are very concerned. He has started the day very flat, and isn't responding to the anti-nausea, or Mirtizapine. They have said, after the ultrasound, they can keep him comfortable
but they feel he's needing specialist care that they can't offer, and that I should fly to Brisbane (about 2000kms away) and admit Ollie there. I dont think it's fair to put Ollie through that
if he's got cancer. They are suggesting the cancer may have been there for awhile and is the precipitating factor for the diabetes and pancreatitis. Ultrasound will prove or disprove to a degree.

They said it's likely that we'll be heading to 'that conversation' later today.

Cath
 
Pancreatic cancer can be quite invasive, and I read tumours are rare, with days, or weeks to live. If that's the case, I will making the decision to free him of this misery.
 
It's so disruptive and confusing when at 8.30 am, the vet says 'it might be time to have that conversation' and when I visit, they say 'there is still hope'

Instead of sitting in front of the computer researching and responding here for Ollie's benefit, I took myself to the vet for a cuddle check in, for his therapeutic benefit. He was responsive, exposing tummy, head butting my hand, purring loudly - the vet was delighted to see this, saying he hasn't been like that with anyone here, including himself. I explained that Ollie is a one-person cat, and I'm his person, to not take it personal. Clinically, is this significant, I asked?

He said Yes, because cats that are really flat, or dying don't respond to owners. So Im a bit angry that I was bawling at the 8.30 am call and now there is hope again.

He has been syringe fed, and is interested in the food, looking to it. I dipped my finger in it, and he didn't accept though.

Then he asks me about some lesions on Ollie's back. I thought the vet caused them, he said no, but he found them interesting. I research and can see a variety of potential causal factors for these, including stress. They are new, and only appeared since this vet visit.

Thirdly, we discuss Ollie's hair regrowth. Because I live in the tropics, I had Ollie shaved (when he was under getting dental work) to help him and his long-hair. That was in October 2022. It's exactly 6 months to the day. The hair is growing back, quicker on the underside, and some little mohawk bits on his back, his fluffy under-coat is like a little gloss over his back, and his hair is thickening for growth. He says this is clinically interesting. Research tells me that long haired cats hair grows back typically around 6 months later, so we're right on track. I'm sure there is a negative reason that slow hair growth is present too.

This rollercoaster of emotions is overwhelming. I'm sure he's only preparing me for any case scenario but going from despondent to hopeful in the space of 2 hours is really difficult.

I have a video of Ollie responding to my cuddles, but I can't upload it here. File extension is disallowed.

Edit: I am going back after 530 and going to take some pieces of raw chicken (tossed in Raw Meow Mix) with me - that's his absolute fave.

Cath x
 
Last edited:
I'm so glad Ollie responded to you so well.
So ultrasound hasn't been done yet?
It is very possible he seems flat because he has not eaten for days.
If the ultrasound doesn't show anything terrible, I would get the feeding tube inserted.
Cats recovering from pancreatitis do so at different speeds. Some bounce back and others linger longer. Every cat is different.
I would also ask about doing Sub Q fluids at home. I used to do those with Sheba. They are not hard and help a lot as cats with pancreatitis can get dehydrated. We can help you with those if the vet agrees.
Hang in there. I'm sure it is a roller coaster of emotions at the moment.
Are you able to stay with Ollie for the ultrasound?...I did, so they might allow it.
 
hi Bron,

Ultrasound, not yet. When I was cuddling Ollie, they had a german Shepard on the table in surgery so they're busy. I was so happy to see him able to weight bare, and apparently he stood up and went for a wee in his tray!! Previously, he had been wee'ing on his towel. I will push for the feeding tube if the ultrasound shows nothing terrible, yes. Yes, I will ask if I can stay with him for the ultrasound. Might help.
 
Update, as at Friday 12 May, 515pm, Australian time.

Last night, when I went to visit, he was eating, brighter and had done a wee in his tray. They decided to pause the ultrasound unless he went into relapse. I was instructed to come back in the am for discharge.

Friday, today, collected Ollie about 930 am. He had nibbled overnight, and done a wee in his tray. Instructed to not give insulin unless he eats more than half a tin of food.

At home, he's been snacking on-off during the day, sleeping in between. He was a bit wobbly on his feet but is getting steadier. The one time I left to get some lancets is exactly the time, he got up and used the tray nearby. He did not miss the tray, leaving me no drops to test for ketones but what a good boy making the tray. His voice is also returning, which is his norm, he is a vocal cat. He also commando-crawled on his tummy along the sofa to make my lap, which is encouraging.

Foodwise, he has nibbled on about 5 little protein chicken treats, almost half a tin of classic pate over the course of the day, no water, but about 20 ml of goats milk that I syringed into his mouth. His last snack was two-three mouthfuls of pate, with dried chicken breast krumble (Raw Meow Mix) brand, which he has always loved at 4.00 pm. On advice from an expert, I am not to do a BG test 2 hours after he's eaten, so now i'm waiting for 6pm. It's 521 pm as I write this. I had a test run with his ears, and he moved, making me think I had sliced his ear :(. His ears are also waxy from the vet, so he's not happy with me touching them, grumbling at me.

Thanks,
Cath and Ollie
 

Attachments

  • 346596266_626696935688563_5504482928851791767_n.jpg
    346596266_626696935688563_5504482928851791767_n.jpg
    116.5 KB · Views: 118
Last edited:
Hi Cath, thanks for the update. I’m so glad Ollie is improving.
I have to go out right on 6 pm to collect one of the kids from the bus stop but should only be 10 minutes. I’ll look for the pre shot BG when I return.
 
I tried it with just the lancet, and he cried. Tried to milk it anyway, to no avail. No blood. Then, I gave him a break, and came back with the little wand that has the lancet in it. He didn't flinch, but I didn't get any blood. Then he moved away from me, then he ran and hid. :(
 
You may need to turn the dial on the side of the lancet device to make it deeper.
It is not uncommon to fail the first few times.
Hold a torch behind the ear so you can see where the vein runs. You need to go between the vein and the edge of the ear.
Did you warm the ear? Try a bit of rice in the toe of a sock. Warm in the microwave…test it on your self first and then hold on the ear for a minute.
 
ok, I understand. He's definitely pissed with me. I held the ear in my hands, fingers, rubbed it. I wondered though if the vets have been doing it too, and maybe it's sensitive. I can see little black dots on there, you know? He also hasn't eaten enough for an insulin shot, (pic attached) It's so hard, because I want him to feel relaxed here, but I can see the many benefits of home testing. He's hiding in his bed now.IMG_6755.jpeg IMG_6754.JPG And he did do a wee again, and a little poo.

I did use my torch on my phone to look for the vein, but I couldn't see it. I can find a better torch though. Also tried a snack to associate it positively, but he declined it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6755.jpeg
    IMG_6755.jpeg
    52.3 KB · Views: 116
  • IMG_6754.JPG
    IMG_6754.JPG
    30.9 KB · Views: 110
Did the vets give you any indication what his BGs were when he was in the hospital this time.?
Even if you skip this dose, you will need to most likely start it again. If he needs insulin and doesn’t get it, other problems will appear.
So I would keep trying. It is very common to fail the first several times, then it will become routine
I’m going to tag @Melinda and Kitkat who thought she would never be able to home test.
In the meantime, try and get a test in sometime this evening.
 
ok, thank you. I'll keep trying, and reading.

What should I do about the vet's advice about not eating enough?
 
I have been offering him small tidbits of everything, pate, goats milk, protein treats to get food into him.

Vets advice was to not give shot unless he ate more than half a tin, I mean.
 
Thank you. Do you think sneaking up on him while he's asleep is wise? He's bright, watches and I dont want him to hate it.
 
Thank you. Do you think sneaking up on him while he's asleep is wise? He's bright, watches and I dont want him to hate it.
He won’t hate it. As long as you give him a treat every time you try, whether you are successful or not, he will come to associate it with treats. Sheba used to run from wherever she was in the house when she heard me at the testing equipment.
 
Update: i drew a tiny bit of blood, not enough for the tester, from his toe-pads. I'll get some Betadine tomorrow to avoid infection after the host. He didn't even flinch when I did this, but I dont think I did it deep enough.
 
He won’t hate it. As long as you give him a treat every time you try, whether you are successful or not, he will come to associate it with treats. Sheba used to run from wherever she was in the house when she heard me at the testing equipment.
Yes, that sounds like Ollie. I pick up the carrier, he runs away. Sheba was clearly very intelligent.
 
Cath I’m going to ask @tiffmaxee to keep an eye out for your 6am Preshot BG. We call it the AMPS (am Preshot). that should be about 1 pm her time.
Please post the 6am Preshot here
 
Last edited:
Good morning Tiff, yes but I couldn't get enough blood for a successful read. I'll keep trying, I got my first shot yesterday, so hopeful I can repeat during the day. It was 8.2 so comfortable in avoiding shot. I did feed him instead, which he really needed. He ate about a quarter cup of diced chicken.
 
No, i stabbed his toepads three times and his ear once. I'm just heading to buy some Betadine and buy some iron supplements. Then I'll try again.
 
hi, yes, he's eating a bit better. Had some more diced chicken, (about quarter of a cup) and then zonked on the sofa. No dice on another pre-shot. Not enough blood. He is also lightning quick to pull away and smudge the little drop I do get. Even with the massage, no more blood comes out.

I've been doing some research on those blood results, and with the 7% HCT result last night, I went to the vet asking if I could have an over the counter iron supplement. I can see themes of anaemia and I'm not an expert. Normal is 35, research says 'half of 35' is likely death. He is 7% but there are other clinical markers that lend to anaemia too.

They said they didn't have any in stock but to ask another vet. So I did. They said to bring him in for a 2nd opinion - consultation, and probably iron/vit B12 shot and they've arranged for the paperwork to be transferred so they're across it. I've written them a summary on email as well, and sent them the most recent blood results. And they're a much bigger service - a proper hospital. I didn't know we had a vet hospital in town at all. He only leaves the sofa to pee. I bring the food to him. I'm going to ask them to do the blood monitor/ketones while I'm there.

And just now, midday, he ate a few mouthfuls of FF Classic Pate. He's doing so well, I am just worried about his quality of life, living on the sofa. If my expectations are too high, I'm happy to accept that it just takes time to recover but I'd like to address the thematic nature of the anaemic clinical markers.
 
Last edited:
Tiff, I was just looking at Max's spreadsheet. Regarding the range in labs, are they universal? If so, I could copy them onto mine
and input Ollie's lab results to compare and analyse.

Thanks,
Cath
 
I think it’s really good to get a second opinion. I was concerned about anemia as well and wonder the cause.

If any infection is present you don’t want an iron shot.

Lab ranges vary unfortunately. Can you have the vet email you the labs? Then you could input on the labs section.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top