Introduction Post Teddy

Hi!
I hope I'm going all of this right! My name is Kay and I'm a 24 year old guy with a somewhat-recently diagnosed diabetic cat. My cat's name is Teddy and he's 2.5 years old. He was diagnosed with diabetes in October after his pancreas stopped working following an internal infection. The vet specialist I saw said that it was likely he would stop being diabetic over time if his diabetes was well controlled. She prescribed him half a unit of insulin twice a day at meal time, and the insulin is Lantus. Since then I've had nothing but issues. He is extremely underweight, hungry ALL the time, and often pees in places he shouldn't.

Post-hospitalization his regular vet kept increasing his dose of insulin until it was 4 units twice a day. Teddy started becoming hypoglycemic, and I kept decreasing his insulin until I stopped giving it to him all together, because even when I was giving him half a unit his blood sugar was going under 100 BG. My original vet believed he was going into remission and told me to stop giving him insulin all together and recommended I go back to the hospital. When Teddy was seen at the hospital two weeks later (so 2 weeks of no insulin) the vet told me he was in ketosis and not going into remission. We started giving him half a unit of insulin again twice a day following meal time, which seemed to help his BG. We tried putting a Continuous Glucose Monitor on him THREE times but it wouldn't stay on because he was too skinny. Since then the hospital has sort of brushed me off and told me to just give him half a unit of insulin twice a day with food, and that we can reassess in three months.

I don't feel comfortable with this because he is hungry all the time and very underweight. I've tried different vets in my area but none of them have been really able to get a grasp on it. I'm not sure what to do to help him with his diabetes so he isn't so miserable.

Some basics: Teddy is 2.5 years old and weights roughly 7 pounds. He is a Siberian and has always been slender but you can feel his ribs and spine. I have him on Lantus insulin twice a day at 1 unit, with food, at 8 AM and 8 PM. I was checking his BG with an at home kit (blood test) and found that it was staying under 150 when I was using 1 unit, and staying in the low 300s on the half unit, so I decided to go with the one unit. He also has half a can of Purina Diabetic Management wet food twice a day (so a full 5 oz can a day). I have just gotten a urine ketone test kit so I am going to try checking his urine in the next couple of days. I've been working a lot and honestly too tired to do a glucose curve over the day / haven't been testing him like I know I should be. I guess I just feel frazzled and hopeless. This Friday (2/5/21) I am going to do a glucose curve and try to test his urine for ketones this week.

My main concerns are 1. Having him be less hungry 2. Gain weight and 3. Stop peeing in unexpected places. Any advice or help is appreciated. I honestly don't trust the vets where I live anymore and the hospital I was bringing him to is extremely expensive and I'm a broke 24 year old. I love my cat with all my heart and I just want him to be happy! I know I need to be checking his blood sugar so please try not to shame me about it, I already feel very guilty about it! Going forward I will be doing such. Anyway, sorry for such a long post!

 

Hi! Just wanted to say welcome - you're in the best place you didn't think you'd ever be It's so clear how much you care for sweet Teddy!

We are very much data driven here - any chance you can set up a spreadsheet with your BG readings - whatever you have? If you don't have them written down, meters usually store a week or two of data. Also, on days you didn't take BG readings, it's helpful to know the Lantus dose given so you can just put the dose and leave the pre-shot glucose value blank. Here are the SS instructions -

How to Create a Spreadsheet
How to Use the Spreadsheet

I'm sure other more experienced folks will be along when they can Hang in there - really, you're in the best place for diabetes

 

Hi Kay and Teddy,
Felix and I are going through the same thing. He was in the hospital from 1/6 to 1/9 for diabetic ketoacidosis. I didn't know he was diabetic and I just changed his food to Iams sensitive stomach so I thought that was why he was losing weight. He was 15lbs and now he's 8.1lbs. He has actually gained a little weight. He was 7.6 about two weeks ago so it's an ounce at a time. The weight loss happened from October to December. Always, hungry, thirsty and peeing on the carpet. It's gross but I actually took a spoon to the carpet and checked the ketones (negative thankfully). I looked up calorie needs of cats and found that for an 8lbs adult feline they should be getting 220-330 calories depending on activity level. The Purina DM only has 176 calories a can and who knows how many carbs (there's a chart around here I know someone will link it). Cooked chicken breast has 9g protein, 1g fat, 0 carbs and 32 calories per ounce (just as a supplement bc it doesn't have enough vitamins, minerals etc.) I use it as a treat for blood tests. Big hugs to the both of you. It will get easier.

 

First thing first, what Susanne said about the spreadsheet and signature. That is biggest help!

Next, when you have some free brain cells, please check out the Lantus forum. You'll be able to get an abundance of help over there...but the stickies will take several read-throughs to start to understand (nothing against the stickies, there's just a lot to take in!). Once you get your spreadsheet up and running, they'll be able to help with dose advice.

Does he still seem hungry after that can? I personally would not limit food if he's not a compulsive eater, diabetic cats do not process food the same way as regular cats. My cat's ideal weight is about 13-14 lbs (big boy!) and he gets the equivalent of 3 cans a day...going by calories alone that should be too much, but he's been maintaining his weight this way despite high BGs

Additional FYI - the Purina DM is low carb (6%), but quite expensive. Most of us feed Friskies or Fancy Feast pates, you can find carb content here. Under 10% is low carb, but most of us aim for around 5%. If you do change food, please remember it can affect BGS, and be sure to note it in your spreadsheet.

 

The rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound of IDEAL weight. SO lets say he is 10 lbs, but should be 12... that would mean he would need at LEAST 240 CALORIES...
12 x 20= 340

So what would you say his ideal weight.
We feed our cats multiple times per day
The bigger meals in the AM and the PM, then depending on how many cans you feed per day, we feed the rest , small meals during each 12 hour cycle
Such as
AMPS you test and feed 8 AM
@+2 ( 2 hours after giving insulin. 10 AM
@+4 ( 4 hours ditto. 12 noon
@+6. ( 6 hours. ditto. 2 PM




Or it could be 8 AM big breakfast
@+3. 11 AM
@+5. 1 PM
@+7. 3 PM

Same goes for the PM Cycle
Most of us feed he Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies Pate
Try not and feed that much fish flavors.
No need for feeding prescription foods

I would suggest to set up a spreadsheet like JaxBenji suggested so we can see his numbers and we can then help you with dosing.

If you can we up your signature that would be really helpful

 

• when you get a chance ,It would be helpful if you can set up your signature so we don't have to ask you the same questions over again. Members will look at this first . Members would have to look up your previous posts to see what insulin you are using
• It appears after each post in gray, look at mine,

• On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
• • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add any other text, such as
  • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.


tap on your avatar where it says your name ,then hit profile page ,tap on that ,then go up to the very top, upper right hand side and tap on your name ,it will bring down a drop box, tap on signature, the signature will be under settings, tap on the signature then and you can start to add what I posted above, make sure you hit save ,
Welcome to the best place you could ever be and an awesome group of people
You can also add where you live in your profile, not your signature

This is at the bottom of every ones post in gray

 

Hi Kay and Teddy and welcome to the forum. I am sure we can help you get back on track and get more weight on Teddy. Leaving him 3 months before reassessing as suggested by the vet is dangerous. You have done the right thing reaching out for help.

There are a few things you really need to be doing. They don’t cost money so that is good.
The first thing I would suggest is to start feeding Teddy on a more regular basis. Not just before the shots.
Diabetic cats can’t utilise all the nutrients in the food when they are unregulated, so he is going to be hungry. And because he has had ketones it is really important that he eats plenty of food throughout the day and evening. This is because food helps stop ketones forming. Your kitty should not have had the insulin stopped so abruptly without being told to test the urine tested daily for ketones.

It is really important to test the BG before every shot is given. This is because we really have no idea if the BG is high enough to safely give the insulin without testing.

If you don’t have an autofeeder, I would highly recommend you get one for Teddy. They are a really good asset to have for diabetic cats. You can program it to give him food when you are not there and when you are asleep. He needs lots of food at the moment.

His inappropriate urinating should settle down once his BGs become more regulated. Has the vet checked to see if he has a UTI?

Do you have any higher carb food and some honey or Karo in case Teddy drops low?
Here is a link about hypos. Please make sure you have some high carb food and honey at home at all times. It is too late to get it if he has a hypo.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

I would also get a spreadsheet set up with any data you might have as others have suggested. We need a spreadsheet and the data before we can help with dosing advice. I’m going to ask @Bandit's Mom if she can look in and assist you if needed with the SS

Here is a link to suitable foods for Teddy. Look for 10% and under carbs for normal meals. And some medium carb around 13-15% carb and some high carb18-22% carbs for if Teddy drops low and you need to bring his BGs up higher.
Click on this link https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

So the main things you need to do now are:

• Feed before the insulin dose and several smaller snacks throughout the day and night.
• Test the BG before every shot to see it is safe to give the dose and if possible during the cycle to see how low the insulin is taking Teddy.
• Look at getting an autofeeder
• Test daily for ketones with that recent history of ketones.
• Set up a spreadsheet and enter data
• Check to see if the vet has tested for a UTI.
• Set up your hypo kit if you haven’t already done so.
• Keep asking lots of questions....we are happy to help you
• Tell us what type of glucose meter you are using....human or pet meter?

Bron

 

Hi Kay.

Welcome to yourself and Teddy.

Supplemental to Bron's feeding guidelines, you need to withhold food for two hours prior to each preshot BG test, otherwise the reading would be food influenced. (Note: With a rotary autofeeder like the Petsafe 5 you can set it to rotate to an empty compartment two hours before the test is due. You can use the Petsafe 5 to dispense wet food meals.)

In addition to testing for a possible UTI, it might also be worth considering a supplement of the methylcobalamin form of vitamin B12, reason being that high BG concentrations can cause nerve damage (diabetic neuropathy) which sometimes affects bladder control. Zobaline is a product developed specifically for cats but you can find cheaper supplements and use the same dosages of B12/folate (e.g. Vitacost methylcobalamin plus a suitable folic acid supplement).

Placing pee pads in locations where inappropriate soiling has been taking place may help a bit with clean-up until the issue is resolved.


Mogs
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Hi All,
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I feel like crying at work I'm so emotional and thankful. I set up the signature and the spreadsheet like y'all suggested and I'm going to do a curve 2/5, 2/6, 2/7 and input that data. I'll move to the Lantus forum once I get some numbers and have things to work with. I am going to start feeding him half a can three times a day using the feeder someone mentioned, just to start off. Is that okay? Should I increase it even more? I'm worried about drastically increasing his food intake all at once because of how it could affect his BG. Additionally I will look into a different food because the Purina is very expensive.

He does NOT have any ketones in his urine currently, so that's at least one good sign. He was also checked for a UTI about a month ago when I brought him back to the specialist and they said he didn't have one.

Can someone explain to me the numbers I should know? IE: what's good blood sugars before an insulin shot, and after an insulin shot (in different hours too). What's too low? What's ideal? I feel like I don't trust anything my vet said to me. For example, he told me Teddy could eat as much dry food as he wanted which even with a basic google search I know isn't true.

Thank you so much! Thank you!
Kay

 

Hi Key!
Anything below 68 on your meter is a take action number. Ideally the numbers should be green and blue.
Next time you give him insulin you test and put the number in the spreadsheet along with how many units of insulin.
Neon green is 911 you need help and a hypo-kit.

 

Hi Kay,

Important reference info:

How to treat hypos (study this and print a copy for your toolkit)

Hypo toolkit (foods for raising low BG numbers, test supplies etc.)

Great job getting the spreadsheet going.


Mogs
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