Java, elder cat

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Lois and Java, Mar 3, 2017.

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  1. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    HI, I'm relatively new, and moving my thread over here from the main health thread, because my second thread hit 3 pages. I've been very lucky to have Kris and Teasel mentoring me on dosing and charting. It's very frustrating at times!
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, Lois! Glad you finally made it over here. I still "rent space" here even though Teasel's now in Lantus Land. There are a few other bouncers here to keep Java company: Steph's Chuck, Michele's Cliff, Eric's Phoebe ... ;)
     
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  3. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Kris is one of a few people I am extremely grateful for as well! :bighug:
     
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  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Pati

    Pati Member

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    Me too.

    Welcome Lois.
     
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  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Pati ... I'm blushing. :smuggrin: Nice to see more yellow and blue PSs on Morris's SS.
     
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  7. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I'm extremely grateful for Kris, too!!!

    Welcome Lois! Let us know what we can do for you!
     
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  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm not accustomed to compliments like this! :bighug:
     
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  9. Pati

    Pati Member

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    You deserve them. :)
     
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  10. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Agree.

    So I went to my one hour class, and then went directly to my vet to ask for pain meds for Java. I had to wait my turn, and then I came home. Someone, probably Java, threw up, and now his blood sugar is 81. He's eaten and I'm following him around trying to get him to eat more. Argh.

    I have bupro- whatever it is for him because his hind legs look so painful from the neuropathy. The vet didn't mention any counter indications, does anybody here know anything that I should know?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Is it about +6 your time? If so this is a nice number even measured on a pet meter. I doubt if he'll go much lower so don't worry about feeding him if he isn't hungry. Try another test in an hour. Buprenorphine ia narcotic and, while good for pain, can make them somewhat dopey. He's a senior and like elderly people probably doesn't metabolize drugs well so a low-ish dose is in order.
     
  12. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    It's now +7, 96. The vet meter danger # is 68, I'm pretty sure, yet any double digits below 90 scare me so.
    The Rx says, .05 mls. inside lips twice daily. Quantity 3. Huh. 3 days worth? Because it's an opioid, don't give for long? I'll call tomorrow.
    Edit, do a fat 1 again tonight?
    Also, photo is Java and Lily after the low.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Those are lovely greens but you don't want to be much lower. If he can coast no lower than this the fat 1 u is a good dose. Try it again tonight but monitor at +2, +4 at least. Steer with higher carb food if he's getting lower than you like before your bedtime.

    Is your buprenorphine already measured out in dosing syringes? Sometimes vets do that because they want to restrict the amount they put into clients' hands. Some people might want to try it on themselves ...
     
  14. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    My vet gave me bupe in syringes too. Made it easy to give to my kitties was the good thing..

    those greens surely are nice! They're right about where you want to be
     
  15. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    The greens are desirable, really? I'll have to get used to that. Dark green of course.
    He's eating nicely.
     
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  16. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Yep those greens are great! They are just about where you want to see them too!!
    I freaked when I saw greens the first time, well every time really! Chuck hasn't seen them in a while though.
     
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  17. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    The bupe is not in syringes, and I gave him a dose as per vet Rx and suddenly am filled with dread. What if he prescribed too much, the way he did when he sent me home with PZI and syringes and Rx for 2 U bid. It's too late, I gave it to him. Think I'll ask in the main forum.
     
  18. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Did you measure out the 0.05 ml dose? I don't know what the ideal dose is... Main forum would be a good idea. If you measured out the dose yourself you at least have the comfort of knowing exactly how much you gave him.
     
  19. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Yes, the syringe was marked, I measured it to the mark.
     
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  20. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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  21. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    He's about 10 lbs. So that would be a dose of .05 to .1. meaning his .05 is on the low end.

    Oh *thank you", I get so stricken with fear and worry. He's actually eating FF now, I want him to eat more before bed. Seeing him be and do normal things doesn't necessarily calm me.
     
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  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    See, Lois - you have more late night company on this forum. Steph is a very knowledgeable doser and also a denizen of the night. :)

    FYI - when I had bupe for Teasel (cystitis pain) the recommended dose made him dopey so the vet said to lower it.
     
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  23. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Thank god for that! I was calm as could be and comfortable with the decision to give him bupe, and then all of a sudden, bam, Panic that I done the wrong thing and I was going to hurt him or even kill him accidentally because the opiate would suppress his breathing too much. ARGHH. I appreciate dosing info and hearing from other people about using bupe.

    I'm using two meters for three tests, then switching to AT. I can't tell if the staff at my vet's office are failing to put my order in for HS strips when I ask for it, or if the HS people are just ridiculously slow. I like a HS meter a little bit more. I have a hundred AT strips so I'll be using it for a while.

    AT reads 434, HS 392, AMPS.
     
  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Some thoughts:
    • it would help your helpers on this forum if you updated your SS as soon as you have new data
    • kitties pick up on our anxiety and it stresses them
    • choose one meter and use it - ignore the other(s) so you don't drive yourself nuts
    • the bupe is helping.
    I know you're used to me being a bit "bossy" and will accept my input in the spirit in which it's intended. ;)
     
  25. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha Kris you're not bossy...you're organized!

    I agree about choosing a meter and sticking to it. It'll help you and us...it really doesn't matter which though. What fever you prefer!
     
  26. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    DO be bossy. I'm not one to pick up on subtleties; it's best to be blunt with me.
    Unfortunately, I can't stick with the HS meter because I only have 2 strips left [zero now, this delayed posting], and I have 100 AT strips.
    Point taken re updating the SS. I have a bad habit of writing something then going off to feed Java or something and letting it go at that without updating the SS. Need to update SS first.
    Discovered last night how to look at other's SS correctly via phone - I was unable to see more than part of a sheet before - I have to do it through the app, duh. It doesn't matter on the laptop.
     
  27. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Pupils normal this morning. His BG is high, partly AT reads 30-50 points higher than HS meter, partly eating a lot of FF.
    Stick with Fat 1, yes?
     
  28. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    That sounds good to me, Lois!
     
  29. Lisa & Leo

    Lisa & Leo Well-Known Member

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    I hope the bupe is working. It helped one of my civvies in her final days with the pain, but it did make her a little loopy.
     
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lois,

    I see you entered BG numbers today but the cell for dose is empty. Still at a fat 1 u?
     
  31. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Hi, yes, oops.
     
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  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aren't I a nag?! ;)
     
  33. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Is fine! Sorry for delayed response.
    433 PMPS. I presume stick with fat 1. Java was looking for FF an hour ago, off to feed him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  34. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I went to talk to the vet about the bupe again.
    I guess my question is, how do you know if your cat is in pain if it isn't something obvious like wincing or limping. And how do you tell if it's doing any good.
    It took two days for his pupils go back to normal (bupe Friday, pupils norm Sunday), and he maybe seemed easier on his feet, but is that from the bupe, or from something else? Are the wobbly hind legs diabetic peripheral neuropathy, or is it the fact that 20 years old equals 97 in human years? vet thinks there's no way to tell, could be both or either.

    Is it a good thing to give him this drug, or is it better to let his system take care of it on his own? Humans described it as an numbness, or prickling, or pain, and there's no way to know what he's feeling. His legs seem thinner, like muscle wasting, and he's definitely wobbly. He shook off my bodyguarding this morning and got up on top of a fence and lost his balance and slid down the side of it, no injury visible. He's bopped around in the yard since then, still wobbly in his hind legs.

    I need to give him Sub-Q fluids today, because I didn't do it yesterday because I felt he needed a day to recover from what seemed like a massive dose, I didn't think to ask the vet that, if it matters if I do them both on the same day.

    I guess my inclination is first do the Sub-Q fluids, then give him a fifth of the bupe that he had on Friday, which would be .01 ml or mg whatever it was..... and yet, he appears to be sleeping peacefully and happily next to Lily, so should I bupe him at all? New profile photo taken right now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  35. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lois,

    Why not try a small dose of bupe, say 1/2 of the first dose you gave. I know that one frightened you because he zoned out. I suspect it looked worse than he felt. Some things we'll never know - we just have to act.
     
  36. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    347 at +8. I thought it would be lower because he didn't have access to FF after 10 am, only YA. I'm going to keep the FF away and see if at least the PMPS can be lower than last couple days.

    If I do the bupe, I think I should do one fifth or .01 instead of .05. He's got a hunchback of 125 ML ringers right now. Do both? And insulin?

    His eyes have been unusually runny and gooey lately. Has anybody ever reported anecdotally that that has anything to do with diabetes? Didn't think to ask the vet about it.
     
  37. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    407, better than last couple of nights.
    Just spent 1.5 hrs talking about Java to my best friends in the neighborhood, who own 6 cats, thus sparing y'all from more lengthy posts!
     
  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed a correlation between BG range and Teasel's "eye goobers" - more when BG is high and less/none when he's lower. My theory is that the dehydration produced by high BG causes eye irritation because of less tear production. I have no idea if that's correct though.
     
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  39. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I'm pleased to see that less FF does result in slightly lower amps and pmps. I'm using FF as an (imperfect) delivery system for Miralax and cosequin. I bought a pill-er but haven't tried it. He normally changes from a 10 pound cat to a 100 pound cougar when pills are involved. I'm waiting to see what the Zobaline looks like.
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I've used a pill gun and found it to be very helpful.
     
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  41. ShipsCat

    ShipsCat Member

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    My newly-diagnosed kidney cat Randall turned from a big lump of love into a buzzsaw for his Pepcid. With the pill gun he's more puzzled than anything and a quick treat afterwards makes him forget it even happened. He even comes running when I shake the pill bottle now!

    Bupe made one of my cats very dopey - he looked like a zombie staggering around. A reduced dose is certainly worth a try, and if Java looks like he feels perkier then you know it's helping. Pain management is hard in cats since they are so stoic.
     
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  42. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    What do you use for treats? Things like Greenies have lots of carbs. Is your cat Randall diabetic also?

    I wasn't going to give Java bupe at all until he looked so uncomfortable around 10 pm last night. I know, I wish it was easier to tell if they're in pain or not.

    P.s. Delaware, OH! I went to OWU for one year.
     
  43. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I don't know anything about bupe, but my kitties know their treats! The pet store near me has lots of treats that are just freeze dried meat - no carbs at all: Sassycat (some of them have carbs, but they have a couple of flavors that are plain), Vital Essentials (lots of flavors - Chicken Giblets are the favorite here), Bonito Flakes, Wildside Salmon, and Cat-Man-Doo chicken. Some of those can be ordered from Amazon as well if they aren't carried at a store near you.
     
  44. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I think its the bonito flakes and cat man doo that can also be found at Asian markets. PureBites are another that most pet supply stores carry. Freeze dried proteins. I believe you can even get the dog ones, bigger bag for around same or little difference price. I just got some Young Again treats =)
     
  45. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I give Teasel Orijen brand freeze dried meat treats. They come in 4 flavours. Teasel's favourite is wild boar.
     
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  46. ShipsCat

    ShipsCat Member

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    Small world!

    Randall isn't diabetic, fortunately, the diets for kidney disease (low protein) and diabetes (high protein, low carb) are pretty opposite. I use CatManDoo freeze dried chicken treats, all my cats go INSANE for them!

    My old boy Turlough had kidney disease for 3 years before he passed, and he would get ulcers in his mouth so we had bupe to make him feel better while they healed. The first time I gave him a dose he looked like an extra from The Walking Dead! Hermione got some bupe today after her lumpectomy and you can't tell except she's a little crooked when she walks :p
     
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  47. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    A new bag of Young Again food arrived today, and I'm kicking myself for not thinking to order their treats. Yes, Pure bites, Java and Lily love those.

    Wow, Fancy Feast between 8 and 11 a.m. only really didn't make a difference today. Kris, I wonder if I should try 1.25 again? I also wonder, instead of that, should I measure out maybe 2 or 3 tablespoons of Fancy Feast and he only gets that in the morning and that's it. He likes slurry, FF blended with water, and never finishes a dish. Not sure what difference that makes, just kind of talking out loud. Literally. Love the dictation feature!
    Edit, only get FF immediately after AMPS and PMPS.
     
  48. ShipsCat

    ShipsCat Member

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    I see you're getting pretty nice blue nadirs from the fat 1u. I'd be sure if you increase to 1.25u you are around to monitor close to nadir. Then again, I'm also a bit of a worry-wort ;)

    I give Hermione her main meals of Primal while she's getting her insulin. I keep YA out all the time for the rest of my cats to eat, and Hermione grazes on it a bit too. You can try limiting the FF to shot times and see how that affects him.
     
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  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lois,
    There was bouncing going on yesterday. You could try 1.25 u but be home to monitor as Kimi suggested. Your blues have been nice but there's a little room to drop. Your call ...
     
  50. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    There's a lot going on today, better to stick with fat 1 today. He's getting around inside and outside, but so tottery on hind legs. Vit B shot is today, I may bupe him at bedtime, or after PMPS, and shot.
    It's tempting to change the 502 and 501 to 499!
     
  51. ShipsCat

    ShipsCat Member

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    Better safe than sorry!

    And I know how you feel - I look at all the red on Hermione's ss the past few days, and think it would look a lot nicer if the barely-reds were almost-pink instead ;)
     
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  52. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I'm really torn about the bupe.
     
  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried a fraction of the prescribed dose since the first time?
     
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  54. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I did, .02, which was fine. I just gave him a third dose ever, .02 for tonight. He was uncomfortable and tense before, now is very relaxed. Before bed, he's eaten, drunk, peed, walked to BR and got up in bed by himself. Yay!
    It seemed like this afternoon's vitamin B shot helped his legs by this evening. It could be.
    The Zobaline is little pink pills.
    I wondered about cutting FF in favor of YA, if it'd level out the BG/ insulin. But. He'll eat FF when offered almost always, but not so YA. At his age, having him eat is, well, I'm so grateful that he will. The bupe makes him hungry.
    I'm thinking bupe at night only, see if that's sensible or if he needs it twice a day.
    I'll be gone +.5-2, and +5-7 tomorrow. Best stick with fat 1 I think?
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  55. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad the lowered dose seemed to make him feel well!
     
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  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad he's responding well to a lower dose of bupe. If he's comfortable, eating (etc.) well, going out to enjoy his walkabouts and so on I think that's very good for an elderly kitty. Your goal is symptom management, not reversal of aging.
     
  57. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I wish I could reverse aging of course. Last night was amputee friend's birthday dinner, talking to her about her own pain and dealing with her sick kitty, who had to be put down about 6 months ago, was helpful.
     
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  58. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Using the carb calculation from Elizabeth Hodgkins book, I'm coming out with smartbites hairball control treats at 138%.
    Protein 29 + 19 fat +6.5 fiber+ 11 moisture =65.5. 100-65.5 = 34.5
    34.5 / .25= 138% carb. That seems wrong. Same calc method = FF liver chicken 10% carb,. Chicken 6%, seafood 6%
    Anyway, Zobaline hidden in 3 hairball treats with 2 decoy treats worked! Pill pockets don't work, I wanted to try this before using the pill gun.
    1.25 U.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  59. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I made a carb calculator in my signature. Based off Dr. Lisa's formulas. Calculations aren't exact of course =)
     
  60. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Is the dry matter = carbs?
    Who is Dr. Lisa?
    I read her book, but found this googling, here's her website about diabetic cats by Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM Esquire.
    http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com
    She used to work for Purina, and came to see that dry food was terrible for felines. She's quite the advocate against dry food now, well, carbs to be particular.
     
  61. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Lisa Pierson, catinfo.org. Yes the dry carb, should be highlighted a color depending on the number. Just realized I didn't add a key to the colours :rolleyes: but they're based off our SS colours.
     
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  62. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Just feel the need to interject here. Dr. Hodgkins is quite correct that dry food is bad for cats. HOWEVER, the rest of her protocol is not something that we advocate or agree with here. She states that a cat CANNOT go hypo if on a wet food only diet, which as we all know, is incorrect. She even says that you should not feed syrup or honey if your cat has a BG of 30...incredibly dangerous advice. From what I understand she is no longer associated with YDC.

    We've had folks come here following her protocol and while that is a choice each owner needs to make, we have let them know we cannot advise them on it here as it is a very dangerous protocol to follow. I recommend going to catinfo.org and checking out what Dr. Lisa has to say about food and feeding...but Dr. Hodgkins' protocol is not one I would spend any time on for the health of your cat.
     
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  63. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I did know that, in more general terms. Certainly her book gave me encouragement to try adjusting Java's doses to his BG readings for the first few months, and that was a huge failure.
    Okay have to test the boy and run to chorus.

    P.S. what is YDC?
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
    Reason for edit: What is YDC?
  64. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Kris, what do you think of the SS? Stick with 1.25 for a week or more, yes?
    Have you heard of The Spoon Theory of disability? Java's looks like he's out of spoons for today. He went outside several times, but he really sticks close to the house now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
     
  65. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    YDC = Your Diabetic Cat
     
  66. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, try the 1.25 u dose to see where it gets you. I know all about the Spoon Theory - I function on very few spoons most days ...
     
  67. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Hi, Java had an increase from a fat 1 to 1.25 this am. His BG reading at +11 is low compared to what it normally is around PMPS. It's now one hour earlier than today's am shot and last night p.m. shot - I was going to shift earlier and give him bupe after his shot, but I don't have to, and think 1.25 is too much. Wait an hour and re-test? See if it goes to magenta? Is 1.25 too much from magenta?
     
  68. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I'm sorry about the spoons. That's rough.
    Worried (surprise!) at how low it is compared to how high PMPS has been. I am at +11 but wanted to shift earlier. Not sure about sticking to 1.25 with yellow.
     
  69. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    You hold the syringe. If you are worried and can't monitor you could give a fat 1 unit or a skinny 1.25 units. It might give him a higher AMPS like he's had the last few days. I have the same issues. Until you see where he goes with a yellow or pink preshot is hard to tell what might be too much or too little. I had the same issue this afternoon but after 20 minute stall (while trying to decide a dose) he went up a lot so I shot the higher dose. You could stall to see if he hits pink. The 1.25 could be lasting longer or causing a longer surf. Usually if I'm too nervous I shoot the lower or at least make sure I monitor closely.
     
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  70. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    On pm 3/3 he got a fat 1 unit on a 303 preshot and had blues. So I think he'd be safe o with a fat 1 unit if you're to nervous about the 1.25... He had bupe that night too.
     
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  71. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Thank you StephG.
    Wow it went up almost 70 points in one hour! I wasn't expecting that.
    I feel nervous about 1.25, it's new, it's night, he'll have bupe, which is pretty new; going with a fat 1 and testing at +2, and at least once during the night.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    You could try the 1.25 u because that yellow is almost a pink. However, if a fat 1 u is more comfortable, go with that.
     
  73. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Dark o clock here, 408, into red already, and back to sleep we all go for some hours, what'll it be at amps! I was surprised at that gain in one hour. I sure could've gone with the 1.25.
    Am going to get a pill pocket from neighbour with 6 cats tomorrow am, try that with Zobaline, easier than carving out a hollow center in fiber treats, tho good to know that works. The way he eats, better to pill to be sure he gets all the Z.
     
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  74. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    It's all data gathering! :)
     
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  75. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Java is so frail and tottery today.
    Edit -- I came in to check on him, carrying a bowl of steamed broccoli, and he perked right up and came over to me immediately. He was always interested in people food and would try anything, trusting that if I was eating it, it was worth a taste.
    So he had a little bowl of his own of steamed broccoli.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  76. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Glad he perked up and enjoyed a little treat of broccoli! He may be feeling a bit under the weather, but if he's still interested in a treat, he's still doing okay. :)
     
  77. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Just keep on with the routine, Lois. He'll have his ups and downs as a very senior kitty. If a tiny dose of bupe helps, don't be afraid to use it. I'm glad you have more helpers on here for times when I'm away from my computer. :)
     
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  78. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Thanks Kris, hi, yes, I'm grateful for it, believe me. And for the SS, now that there's more info.
    Dark o clock again. I was reading about pain meds for cats and gabapentin was mentioned. It's a fantastic drug, I took it during shingles, it was the only thing that worked. It's for nerve pain. Seems like it'd be better than an opiod like buprenorphine for hind leg neuropathy in particular.
    If I want to ask if people have experience with it, need to put in main board? Maybe I'll try a ? here.
     
  79. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'd post on the main board to get more eyes on it. I've seen posts where people say it can be sedating too. I have no experience with it.
     
  80. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Interesting. Okay, tx for tip.
     
  81. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Yep, I post about things like that on Main and here...that way you can get plenty of eyes on it.
     
  82. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    So I picked up some Gabapentin. It turns out to be one of those things like aspirin that's super cheap, which is awesome. I have to dissolve contents of a 100mg capsule in water, draw 25 mg dose once per day. Vet said he looked up dosing and it's all over the place, from 25r mg bid to 100 mg after surgery. Java's been sensitive so far, let's hope this is a good dose. He does look awfully knocked out, oh heck, have I jumped in with too high dosing again? I hope not. I'll change photo to how he is right now.
     
  83. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Elderly cat = small dose. Same with elderly people. I hope this helps him. At least you'l be able to compare its action to bupe's.
     
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  84. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    My old Vet gave us Gabapentin for our dog (she lives with my parents, along with Maury's "sister") and she told us if we use it, don't just stop but ween her off it. Same applies to kitties:

    Side Effects and Contraindications
    Usually well tolerated by cats, gabapentin does have potential side effects that include lethargy and odd movements or loss of coordination, especially while walking. Some cats might experience diarrhea. It shouldn't be prescribed for pregnant or lactating cats, or for those with kidney or liver disease. If your cat also receives antacids while on the medication, they can reduce gabapentin's efficacy. Give these different medications to your cat at least two hours apart. If your cat receives other potent painkillers, such as morphine, that might increase the drug's punch but also make side effects more likely. Cats should be weaned off the medication, not stopped abruptly.
    Site: http://pets.thenest.com/cat-gabapentin-9943.html
     
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  85. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Yong, do you think this applies after he's had one dose?
    I've been working in the yard all day. Took Java out to see the changes, he drank some fresh cold water, looked around, watched some of the dogs being walked, tottered back, he and Lily are asleep next to each other.
    My wish with the Gabapentin is that it gives him more strength in his legs, because they don't hurt... Which we don't know if they do, but humans' do. You guys know that, sorry, tired. I'm going to go lie down with the cats.
     
  86. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    I'll try to look that up tomorrow. I'm falling asleep at my computer because I wanted to read the updates :). Darn Daylight savings :banghead:
     
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  87. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Oct 21, 2016
    Kidneys? He has low level kidney disease. Argh?
     
  88. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I think you said that you had to dissolve the gabapentin in water, right? Why not make a much more dilute solution and give him a tiny dose of that?
     
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  89. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Either that or admit it was a dumb failed experiment that I shouldn't have tried on my poor cat's body chemistry in the first place. And put my attention on waking up and doing the things that I know are good, like taking up food before a bg test. So tired last night and I found a dish of food this am that wasn't up, that he probably got into, look how high BG, that's *much* more damaging/ less helpful. Argh. He's in a sort of hidden but sunny spot this morning, very tottery, a day of gabapentin stupor did not help that.
     
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  90. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Your call on the pain meds. It's great that he gets to enjoy outdoor time safely. Mine would love that!
     
  91. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    I didn't like the fence when neighbor put up on 2 sides, now I'm grateful for it. Skunks, raccoons, etc, deer can still walk through. We have coyotes; treating them as if they are crepuscular and nocturnal is strategy most of us cat lovers in nabe have adopted. Lots of dogs are walked past my house, a good thing. Java is nearly deaf now, I'm almost always out there with him. I tried locking them in all day a few years ago after spate of 4-6 am cat kills, Java literally tore my window screens apart, would climb double hung windows open only at top, claw his way out, jump to ground outside. Now that he's impaired, he's sensible - tho' he's always been sensible. He goes inside fruit tree cages to sleep, or under an outdoor chaise, or behind a plant stand, or next to fence with it at his back. He used to sleep on the roof next to the chimney, then would jump up on the chimney and sleep on top of it as the roof cooled, but bricks stayed warm. Heart attacks at first but I just had to trust him. (Am I the only one who's chatty?) Love to hear why you can't let yours out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  92. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    When he was little, and until he was in his middle age, he would go on walks with me all over neighborhood. This was before coyotes. We would only go out after 10 or 11 o'clock at night, when the dog walkers were done. He would stay with me, and we would literally walk around for about a half mile. He's such a good cat. I got to know one neighbor who lives several blocks over because he was the only one who would be working in his yard after 11 o'clock at night. That was before I was on the neighborhood association board, back in the day, and got to know a lot of people in the neighborhood.
     
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  93. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I live in a fifth floor condo and taking all three out to the small grassy area behind the building isn't workable for me. I live near the centre of the city.
     
  94. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Ohh, that makes sense.
     
  95. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    My friend who had the sarcoma in her arm is on the third floor of a condo and her neighbors' cats come to visit her. The cats get to go out in the hall, that's their exploration.
     
  96. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Yong, I finally found it and figured out how to post this. It's the calculation sheet from Elizabeth Hodgkins. I am the least mathy person you'll ever meet. Would you be willing to check my math on the carb value of the fiber treats? Data above?
    Edit: I was wrong about him not eating pill pockets, so this is somewhat academic, so no worries if you're not interested. I am just curious if I did the math right!
     

    Attached Files:

  97. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Teasel runs out into the hall occasionally when I open the door but he doesn't stay there long. I also don't want to break any of the condo rules about pets running loose in common areas.
     
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  98. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    My friend Sally used to live on the second or third floor of a condo in Oakland, and one of her cats fell off balcony onto the ground below. He lived through it, but he wasn't 100% unharmed. I'm forgetting the details. Java's not the only one getting old!
     
  99. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    After yesterday's 5 a.m. awakening to research gabapentin and running to the vet first thing in the morning, then let supply errands, followed by yard work all afternoon... couch time this am. Teasel grows where I grew up in Western PA, and I just looked it up in Google and found this really interesting thing about teasel root and Lyme disease. http://www.tiredoflyme.com/teasel-root.html
    My best friends in the neighborhood are Sarah and Daniel, of the six cats. Used to be seven. Phoenix and Java used to fight all the time. They couldn't keep Phoenix inside, and we couldn't keep Phoenix out of Java's yard, probably because I'm on a hill with a view of neighborhood goings-on. Phoenix was bigger and Java usually got beaten up, although at some point Phoenix lost an eye. Anyway, Daniel has lyme disease that comes and goes. I'll have to tell him. Another of my oldest friends goes back to when Java used to go up the hill behind me and beat up her cat Spalding.
     
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  100. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Teasel is named after "Teaselwood Stables" where I bought my horse in 2010. He and his siblings were three barn kittens that I adopted as what I call my "gift with purchase". His brother is named Woody and his sister is Meadow.
     
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