Lev starting dose for higher dose kitty

Charlie is on 7.5u bid of prozinc. We're switching this weekend to lev. The vet recommended a starting dose of 4u bid, which I think I'm comfortable with. I don't want to waste time and have him back in the 600s for no good reason. There's a possibility of acro and/or iaa, but no confirming tests have been done yet. They're on the back burner for now. Any opinions?

 

i posted to you on lantus.. this lev is interesting stuff. be prepared for a lobotomy on everything you knew about dosing tho'' :mrgreen:

 

I'm not sure what Charlie is (resistent, acro, iaa) but looking at his spreadsheet, it looks like he actually reacts to the insulin. If you look at Cindy's (confirmed acro kitty), her curves are pretty flat. The biggest swings are about 100 points with most being 50-70. With Charlie, you have wilder swings, even going from the 400's to under 100 but still, a lot of his curves are pretty flat.

I'm still learning with Levemir, but I like how it has smoothed things out for Cindy. Since ECID and their reactions to different insulins different as well, I don't know what I'd do were I in your shoes. Maybe start low but move up faster, like every 3 or 4 cycles. If he isn't an acro cat, you might miss your dose.

Just thinking out loud...but does he have any other signs of being an acro cat besides the insulin issue?

 

he has some signs that may point to it. He is a bit of a snorer, has a grade 1 heart murmur, has always had a huge appetite, and is a big boy who is 10 years old. But some things make me think he isnt. I read that most acros don't lose weight with the onset of diabetes--he lost 3 pounds. Also, those occasional drops into the blues and greens make me think it's more insulin resistance than acro. But, we'll find out eventually. the vet wants to do the acro test if we get back up to 7u bid of levemir.

 

If you did it now, you'd better know how to deal with moving to a new insulin...just a thought.

 

With a confirmed acro, I'd start higher. In this case, I'd start at 4u. I am not suspecting acro so I am more cautious. Suspecting IAA, I would not want to lose aggression.. So that leaves me at 4u. Levemir can take a few days so we generally recommend the first few increases be on the 7th dose. If he falls behind we can bump faster.

 

it might take a few days for you and charlie...seems like all the folks i currently know and myself got immediate results day 1...so be prepared for that too claudia.

 

Claudia....is Charlie on any ABs? i thought i saw something in Charlies ss regarding that. just a refresher as well Charlie is on all wet food.any dry? any other meds he is on and what other health conditions he may have.dont mean to be redundant but just something we ask to make sure we are on the same page. while yu are here and before u start Levemir do read the stickies regarding how levemir works. also any questions u have regarding levemir post here and we will assist yu with them. the stickies can be rather daunting. levemir is very different for the prozinc . so yes in essence yu will have to throw out that which yu did with that insulin and open up to how the levemir works. i see that your vet will test for acro if yu reach 7 units levemir.for the small fee also have him test for the IAA as well. could be both going on here. while you read up on levemir if there is anything that is confusing or yu arent sure of,just give a yell.

 

lori,
I'm sure I don't need to tell you that this is the high dose board and the question is for high dose owners. As you do not have experience or knowledge in high dose cats, your posts on this isg should include that information, lest someone get confused about what you have to offer them in the way of help.

 

referring only to the fact that this insulin can work immediatly carolyn...ummm, sorry, is that frowned upon here...i'll ask a moderator.

 

Ask all of the moderators. this is the high dose forum. You have already responded to this post on two other isg's. There is no need for you to respond here as well, without at least stipulating that you do not have a high dose cat or experience with them.

 

deleted

 

we are trying to help the poster with info for her high dose kitty.

Claudia scroll up a bit and see if yu can give me the info i asked a few posts above? thanks

 

Charlie is on ab's right now (clindamycin) for a toe infection. We have hopefully just 3 more days on the ab's. Vet said that this particular kind of ab may take 2 rounds, though. He's allergic to clavamox which I guess is stronger and faster at clearing up soft tissue infections. I think his toe is looking a little better. He's on all wet food, 5% carbs or lower. No other health issues currently. I've read the stickys. I think it'll definitely be a period of adjustment. Thanks for your help!

 

if vet has felt another round of those ABs would be good then I would go with that advice. clavamox is the same AB as augmentin for people albeit lower dose and is known for upsetting stomach in people. clindamycin can do the same as well but if he is handling it better than all the better. u can add some probiotic called fortiflora while he is on AB course for it replaces the good bacteria normally living in the gut that get killed off when on ABs.its available from your vet and about 20 bucks. ok well read up on your stickies and will be here if yu should have questions.i am feeling positive the lev will be a good move for charliemeow!

 

I appreciate that Claudia came here for the advice of members with high dose experience, but I did not realize that responses to threads in this forum are restricted to those members unless notice to the contrary is given. I do not recall and do not see that Rebecca ever posted a notice to that effect. So far this thread has been reported to the moderators three times, soon to be four as I report my own post for Rebecca's attention. I understand that Lori will attempt to no longer post on this thread.

 

As a moderator, you should be aware that I did not tell her not to post here. I told her to stipulate that she had no experience. I do not appreciate the deliberate misinterpretation.

 

And after I reread my post and before I saw yours, I edited mine. I hoped I was in time to get it before anyone read it, but I wasn't. My misinterpretation was not deliberate.

 

i do not believe that a person posting non-doing advice NEEDS to say " i don't have a high dose kitty and i have lack of experience with acro etc"
and if i have to wade thru all your posts to read and say what i want, well, that is what I pay for carolyn.

 

this is distracting and disrespectful to the original poster. this is about cats.not people.helping claudia should be the focus here

 

but girlcat that is what i was doing until i was interrupted. and i am sure claudia is happy to have my input.
let's try not to interrupt people when they are offering sound bits of knowledge k?
back to any questions claudia may have i hope.

 

I scrolled back to find your sound bits of knowledge but I can't find it. Did you remove something?

To say that a lobotomy will be needed, or that you and all the people you know saw immediate results

I think that statement is misleading for a possible high dose kitty who is giving half dose compared to the previous insulin. Would you be able to post the people who had immediate results on day 1 when switching to lev? What immediate results were seen?

According to Venita,

I guess not.

Sound bits of knowledge comes from asking sound bits of questions, like any other health issues, any other meds, etc.
As you already commented on the issue, apparently, in a couple other areas, I don't see the reason to follow a person to all groups and repeat pieces of non-doing advice

A person posts on HD section for a reason, and those in the HD group were asking critical questions concerning health and diet, dose and meds, so that repetitious 'non-doing advice' along with a 'quack quack' post are just clutter, getting in the way of helping, truly helping.

Since you are new to the use of lev on a regular DM kitty, I can't see that you would have much to say in a contributing way for a possible high dose kitty with some insulin resistance that you have not already said, over in PZI, Lantus, and Levemir groups, and Health and Community or wherever else you have posted.

Claudia was directed to post in the HD group for a reason, and I don't think that reason included a need for more of your repeated 'non-doing advice'. You don't know anything about dosing for Lev for a high dose kitty, and you certainly don't know how a high dose kitty reacts to a switch to Lev, so it would be nice if you could limit your posts to words of encouragement and a mention that you have no high-dose/insulin resistance experience.

Now, back to the helping.

Claudia, I am sure you already have, but please be sure to test a bit more than usual if possible during the first few days of the switch and have the hypo info printed out and handy, just in case Charlie decides to go low. Without knowing if Charlie is acro or IAA or just a thirsty guy, the starting dose of 4u for Lev is a guesstimate that may need some adjusting, but you should have a good idea how it's working after this weekend.

Just so you have the info handy, here are the links to the stickys:
Tight Regulation Protocol
Lantus & Levemir – Insulin Depot –AKA- Storage Shed
Lantus & Levemir – Data Ready to Shoot Low Numbers

If you have any questions, be sure to ask.

 

Lori
Claudia posted her question in other forums for that particular forum's opinion. She then came to High Dose to pointedly direct her questions to the people here who are all too quite familiar with High Dosing from experience with their own cats.She is also inquiring about an insulin that many of us in HD use .Using Levemir with a possible HD cat is not something that someone with no experience should trying to be helping with.And actually Ive never run across anyone without said experience who would try to help. HDing a cat with Levemir/Lantus as well as possible bolus with R is usually something that people who dont have that experience wisely dont comment on.
Should Charliemeow be Acro/IAA or both, Claudie might find that getting the knowledge on how to handle and care for a high dose cat from those who came before her. That is what people in HD do here.Dealing with a HD possible Acro cat is not the same as an FD cat. Applying some FD protocols to a HD Acro IAA cat could get that cat killed. and visa versa.
It would just be very nice and considerate and decent if we could help Claudia with her HD questions.
Enough time has been spent on this thread with off topic convo that is not about the cats but is about ego and has np purpose here. My focus is solely on Claudia and her cats health. I will not be commenting on this off topic side convo further. I dont desire to continue in convo that is not cat /claudia related thank you

 

As a moderator or THIS forum and very protective of THIS forum I am closing this trhread now. Claudia I am terribly sorry this has happened to YOU!

to the other people who are involved here -

my thought on this is - everyone is entitled to give their opinion - however - this IS the hi dose forum - and when someone comes here ALREADY using HIGHER doses of insulin and about to start on another HIGHER dose of another insulin - asking for advice from HI dose members - I DO think it's important to state whether you have had experience or not taking care of a HI dose kitty. THAT is typically why people come to this group.

Claudia came here asking for help and that's what she needs. This thread is CLOSED - PLEASE Claudia would you please start another thread so we can help you better again.