Long time since I posted. Still confused @diabetes/today's diagnosis

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Cee Sharp, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    I think I posted on here a few months ago, right after BD was diagnosed.
    I've switched Vets, switched insulin.. tested till the cows come home.. and am still confused.
    In October, the first vet gave BD Prozinc. We couldn't get his numbers down. She left me confused, so I sought out another opinion, hoping I would understand someone else better.
    The 2nd vet changed the insulin to "vetsulin," a longer-acting insulin.
    We've never gotten BD's numbers under 200.
    BD doesn't like the testing, so, we only did testing once a week for 12 hours - every 3 hours.. and then reported the numbers to the new vet.
    BD has been eating - doing relatively well, but, not his usual self, before insulin. He has good & bad days.
    Last week, he started vomiting.
    We took him to the 2nd vet for a blood panel - and everything was good, except she diagnosed him w/borderline kidney issues, and gave us Ondansetron (for puking) and Metronidazole (antibiotic) and wants us to consider changing his diet to a Prescription Kidney type food.
    We're not working right now, due to the Pandemic.
    Money is tight.
    I can't afford what I'm already doing - let alone buy prescription, expensive cat food.
    He seemed to be tolerating Fancy Feast pate' quite well -
    I think, maybe, I was giving him too much tuna - because I felt sorry for the little guy and would mix it w/his Fancy Feast often.
    The 2nd vet said to watch the phosphorous content.
    I'm so confused about all this, I, myself, feel like having a meltdown.
    Do you think the tuna had an effect on his kidneys?
    Do you think I can continue the Fancy Feast he loves?
    Throughout the whole ordeal, he's lost about 2 pounds - which he actually needed.
    He's about 13 pounds right now - and he's going on 7 years old.
    We love BD so much (and so do his 2 siblings) but, this is becoming more than I can handle.
    I just read-up on that antibiotic she recommended, and it didn't have good reviews. It's very bitter, and the side effects are not good. I'm not sure I trust that drug- I read that it wasn't approved by the FDA for animals.. is that true? - BD HATED it.. and ran away from me drooling. Poor guy has been picked and probed so much - I feel so bad for him.
    At this point, I want to go back to my first Vet. She's expensive, but, I've had her many years, and now that I'm a bit more knowledgeable on diabetes (not much) maybe I can comprehend what's going on. (?)
    Please advise if you can. I appreciate 'any' feedback.
    I don't want to push meds on BD if he really doesn't need them.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  2. SashaV

    SashaV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2020
    If I were you, I'd post in the Main Health forum. :bighug:
    Vetsulin isn't long acting insulin at all... it hits hard and fast, and lasts 8 hours if you're lucky.
     
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  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Vetsulin is shorter action than ProZinc. ProZinc is a better insulin for most cats.
    The kidney food is for cats in late stage kidney failure. It's too low in protien otherwise and that could lead to muscle wasting. Stick with food low in carbs and under 1 percent phosphorus. I feed weruva foods. I can list the foods if you want.

    If you start a spreadsheet we can help with dosing.

    Can you post the Bloodwork labs? What dose of your cat currently on?
     
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  4. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    wow.. I was told by my new vet it lasted longer - yet 'another' reason why I won't go back to her.
     
  5. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    They actually did not give me a printout.. she was behind and fit me in.. I'm not sure how to do a spreadsheet.. I'll look into it.
     
  6. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Question: Can I switch back to Prozinc from Vetsulin on my own? I'm tired of dragging BD to the vet and being disgusted, not to mention the $$$. He was on 2 units of each one of them. We did "one" day without any insulin before starting the other.
     
  7. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If you call the receptionist they should be able to email you a copy. This is how to set up the spreadsheet using Google Sheets. If you need help I can tag someone to set it up for you. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
     
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  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If you have the ProZinc you can switch back to it. No need to skip a day.
     
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  9. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Thank you. I think I will. He was actually doing better on it.
     
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  10. Alana & Fatty

    Alana & Fatty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Hi there,

    Just wanted to say my kitty has diabetes and kidney disease too. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Tanya's CRF forum (https://tanyackd.groups.io/g/support), but it's similar to this and has been extremely helpful to me. I hope you find it useful.

    I can encourage you to try to use a tiny piece of Pill Pocket or an empty gel cap if giving your kitty a bitter tasting pill -- ONE time I tried to give my kitty Cerenia (another antinauseant) without it and he foamed up like a monster and hated me for 5 minutes, which is a long long time for us to not be friends. :)

    The Fancy Feast flavours (pates) I used to give Fats when he was *just* diabetic, while fine for other kitties, are too high in phosphorous for a kidney cat. But as I have just spent about 6 weeks trying to regulate Fatty's BG on a high carb prescription kidney diet (seeing improvement now that I've given up on that and returned to our lower carb one, though it's still high for a diabetic floof), perhaps you will find something in Janet's list that works for you. Phosphorous binders (aluminum hydroxide is a tasteless powder -- as long as the vet doesn't give you the mint one) that can be mixed into food to stop some of the phosphorous from being absorbed, and it's quite affordable.
     
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  11. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Thank you so much. BD is very picky - even "before" diabetes and these "new" kidney issues. I'll check out the forum - in the meantime, BD is stable. I'm giving him the prescription for vomiting, but, chose not to give the antibiotic, after I read so many bad side effects. I'm going back to Vet #1 next week.. thanks for the advice!
     
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  12. Alana & Fatty

    Alana & Fatty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Hope your original vet is more helpful, and glad to hear that BD is stable. Ah yes, picky eating can be so frustrating and disheartening ... wishing you luck in finding something he likes!

    Here's some info on alternative antibiotics from Tanya's website if you're interested (which the forum is part of): https://felinecrf.org/treatments_antibiotics_painkillers.htm. Does BD have an infection? Sometimes they can make kidney values look much worse, or a kidney infection can be confused for kidney disease. My kitty had a kidney infection that our first vet (who we never went back to) said was total kidney failure. Antibiotics cleared it up completely (he was hospitalized for a few days, then I continued with antibiotics at home after he was stabilized) and his kidneys were groovy for a few years after that!
     
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  13. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Yes. BD actually has red, inflamed gums that I wanted taken care of in October - and then we found out he was diabetic, and our Vet wanted to address that first, before he was put under anesthesia. It's been one thing after another since October - but, the last few days, he's been eating & sleeping ok, and purring occasionally - and we're happy about that. While I have people answering me - I have another question. What do you think about giving omega 3's to your kitty? I'm a firm believer in the holistic approach, whenever possible. I've read differing opinions - but, one article mentioned it's benefits - particularly with kidney issues. I'll address it next week, when I go back to my original Vet. Thanks for all your advice. I appreciate it very much.
     
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  14. Alana & Fatty

    Alana & Fatty Member

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    Aug 30, 2020
    I can relate to the one thing after another bit -- it certainly seems to happen that way! I haven't given separate omegas to my kitty because they're already added to the renal food I give him. If you scroll down here (https://felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm), there's a section called "Essential Fatty Acids for CKD Cats" with some linked studies. Sounds like they have been of benefit to some kitties, but I think you have to watch the EPA/DHA ratio, so I'd definitely confirm with your vet before starting. Sorry I can't be more helpful!
     
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  15. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Hi Everyone.. Sorry to post, we're still having issues with BD. I went back to my initial Vet. He's back on Prozinc - 2 units 2X's a day. He was eating "somewhat" ok, until the last few days. My Vet has him on antibiotics, in the hope that his gum infection will go down.. I'm wondering if the Clindamycin is making him sick. I'm supposed to call her this week and let her know if it's helping his inflamed gums any. It's not. He's not eating.. looking skinny tonight (I'm still up) and lethargic. He just ate a tiny bit. Can I skip the insulin? I'm so confused. I'm afraid we're losing him.. I'm thinking he needs blood work.. I don't know. I hate the thought of putting him down. His older brother and he are buddies. - and my husband and I love him so much. He's almost 7. - we've been giving him insulin since the end of October.. Thanks for any information. .... We just tested his number - BD does NOT like testing, so our Vet is allowing us to test on a curve every other week or so.. His number was 302.. so we just gave him his 2 Units. He's out on our patio right now.. loves it out there.. (it's enclosed) ..
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
    Reason for edit: adding something
  16. Alana & Fatty

    Alana & Fatty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2020
    Hi Cee,

    I am going to leave the insulin questions for the experts here but in terms of the clindamycin, that can make kitty feel very unwell. Perhaps you could see about another antibiotic, or adding an antinauseant medication like Cerenia. I used Zeniquin (which is generally better tolerated and safe for kidney kitties) for my Fats, and it made him pretty sleepy for the first few days but otherwise he was fine. I’m not sure if it’s effective for dental issues though. I’m not sure if you’re aware of this or not so forgive me if I’m telling you things you know, but kidney kitties generally need much longer courses of antibiotics than other kitties (like, 30 days). You might get some answers posting about antibiotics on the Tanya’s CRF board as well, and this page is great info for you to ask your vet:

    https://felinecrf.org/treatments_antibiotics_painkillers.htm

    If you do get bloodwork, an infection can make things look worse than they will be once you get the infection under control, so don’t give up hope!
     
  17. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    Thank you so much. I had a feeling it might've been the antibiotic, too. I so appreciate your response. I'm calling tomorrow. His number before insulin today was 285. When he first started in October it was over 500 - but, he needs dental work badly - and has a constant infection. Again. thank you.
     
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  18. Alana & Fatty

    Alana & Fatty Member

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    Aug 30, 2020
    Good luck tomorrow! :):):)
     
  19. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

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    Oct 23, 2020
    Thank you!! He's doing better today.
     
  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    You are going to have a hard time getting his bg under control if he needs a dental. I would get that done asap. My cat had diabetes and ckd and had three dentals.


    Are you feeding a low carb low phosphorus foood? I feed weruva. They had a low of choices.


    Don't skip. No food +infection + no insulin is a recipe for ketones.
     
  21. Cee Sharp

    Cee Sharp Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    NEED SOME INFO please. BD had dental surgery yesterday. He had no insulin (he's on Prozinc 2 units 2X's a day) prior to his surgery Tuesday morning. When I picked him up, they said to give him his antibiotic and insulin after his meal. Well.. he just vomited everything... and I'm worried to give him insulin and his antibiotic on a empty stomach. Should I go ahead and administer? He had 2 teeth extracted.. he was fine and ate a little after he came home, but, I wanted to wait and get him back on his usual schedule, since we work nights. Any thoughts? I greatly appreciate it. Thanks
     
  22. Pookie

    Pookie Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2020
    I can't help with dosing. However, you will be more likely to get a response from someone who can help if you start a new thread in the Health forum. I'd make the thread title something like "Need dosing advice this morning" and add the question mark from the thread tools.
     
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