Manon&Joy We're new and in need of assistance

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Manon&Joy, May 27, 2016.

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  1. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Hi All,

    I'm Manon and my cat is called Joy, he's a 18 year old with thyroid problems, kidney faillure (both mild) and since last monday irregular heartbeat and diabetes.
    Ruby&Baco helped me find this forum.

    Basic info
    weight 3kg
    thyroid meds 2 a day 5mg Felimazole
    Kidney meds Fortekor 1 a day 2,5mg
    heartmeds Atenolol Actavis 2 a day 1/4 of 25mg

    Diagnosed last monday, started Prozinc wednesday , first full day yesterday.
    I'm keeping a sheet on the Dutch forum, but I would like to start using Ruby's and Baco's sheet, that's what you all use, right?
    Joy is responding to Prozinc somewhat too well, the numbers are dropping fast, so I'd like to get my US sheet up asap so everyone in here can advise me.

    First burning question is about food, I'm using Royal Canin Renal (high carbs) what do I use to get his numbers up if he goes too low?

    And can someone please give me directions to the sheet?

    I'm still riding a rollarcoaster in a pressure cooker, so please forgive me if I don't respond quickly or if I misread or something, I've heardly slept since the diagnose, my house looks like a bomb went off, I loose things I just had in my hands, I don't have any food in the house, but cat food. I'm not really sure what day it is.but the main thing is; Joy is feeling a little better...!!!
     
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  2. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Manon and Joy,

    Welcome to the forum. We are a small but friendly group. As with Ruby, we will try to have someone around to help when you need it, but, of course, even with people in the East and Mountain time zones, our day is your evening.

    Here are the directions for the spreadsheet:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    You want the World version which will convert from from European to US numbers.

    We can all identify with your roller coaster. If it helps, I can guarantee it gets better. As Ruby will tell you, the whole process seems so complicated at first, but after a while, you begin to gain in confidence and start interpreting the data and, as Ruby is now doing, making good choices about doses on your own.

    I'll watch for your spreadsheet and see what ideas I might have on her numbers. Others will be along to greet you also.
     
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  4. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2016
    Manon is about to test Joy's PMPS (Manon, PMPS means PRE waarde) and she has to decide what to give Joy. Her vet told her 0.50 (instead of the 1U that she gave earlier, that's why Joy's numbers were low! (64 at +6, coming from wayyyy more than 450/500) So I told her on the dutch forum that maybe 0.50 is even to much, and instead go with 0.40.
    I think we have to wait for PMPS but I'm curious to know what you would recommend Manon to give Joy.
     
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  5. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2016
    here are Joy's numbers from today (since she doesn't have a sheet that converts just yet)

    AMPS <450
    +2 232
    +4 120
    +6 64
    +8 120
    +10 194

    So we now are waiting for PMPS
     
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  6. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
  7. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    So one unit took her from 450/500 to 64 at nadir? As you know, Ruby, it will partially depend on her ability to monitor. Manon, we generally suggest starting low, and after you see what a given dose does, if it is too little, then raise slowly. It is easy to increase a dose; it is impossible to get the insulin out once shot!
     
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  8. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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  9. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Manon, do you already got Joy's PMPS number?
     
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  10. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    15.5 filled in on the sheet just now, but my US doesn't automaticaly convert, how do you do that?
     
  11. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2016
    It does convert, see the other tab in your left side of the sheet below.. it's 279 her PMPS. What would you suggest @Sue and Oliver (GA) ?
     
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  12. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Apr 20, 2016
    Welcome Manon and Joy! I know you will find some help here, it does get easier :bighug:
     
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  13. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    So I am thinking that one unit caused more than an 80% drop. While that doesn't always correspond to future dosing, it clearly says one unit was too much. 0.5 could be fine, but it is going into your night time and we have no history to tell us if she will continue to react to the insulin this strongly and drop even more. I think the cautious advice would be less than 0.5. What kind of needles do you have, Manon, and how little of a dose could you measure? O.25?

    Regarding the food, I would suggest posting on the Health forum. Tell them you are in Europe and give Joy's medical issues and ask for food suggestions. I would be cautious lowering her carb count right away. That might be enough to lower the levels even further - and she doesn't have a lot of room to drop. @Elizabeth and Bertie - and diet suggestions?
     
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  14. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Please can someone convert 15,5 human to US values and advise, I need to give Joy his insuline asap
     
  15. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2016
    I already did Manon. see my previous post! its 279.
     
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  16. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    I use UB40 needles, really hard to measure less then 0,5 but less is less...
     
  17. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Check my post above. Your spreadsheet works fine for me - converting from US to mmol.
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    You can always do what we call a skinny dose - pull up 0.5 and let out a few drops. And I would plan to test before bed to see whether she is going to drop fast or stay more stable.
     
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  19. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    so half the 0,5 dose? yes i could measure that more or less...
    So I dose 0,25 right now?
     
  20. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Ill stay up all night, I wanna know how it goes
     
  21. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Do you know how to measure it Manon? the 0.25?
     
  22. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I think that sounds good. It may not be enough, but we can always increase in a few cycles. One of our many annoying sayings here : better too high for a day than too low for a minute.
     
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  23. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Welcome Manon and Joy! I see Sue has already given you dose advice, and I agree with it. As you get more data on Joy, you'll be able to figure out a good dose more easily. The good news is that Joy has had some good drops. As Sue said, we'd prefer to give a small dose and increase later if needed to keep her safe.

    We're glad you're here!
     
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  24. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2016
    There is still something wrong with Manon's sheet.. her AMPS is giving a error..
    @Marje and Gracie can you help this error?
     
  25. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    oke, I got it in the end ;) I did a skinny dose, I think is was about 0.40
    Thank you so much for your input!
     
  26. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    that's my bad I think Ruby, i filled in 25> it means "to high to measure" how do I fill that in properly?
     
  27. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Thank you all for your warm welcome and quick response and advice!
     
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  28. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Glad you got the SS going. The problem the the AMPS on the US SS is that it only converts numbers from the World SS. It won’t convert a symbol such as >.

    You’ll need to go to the US SS and manually enter it. If the number was >25 on the mmol meter, than it would be >450 on the human meter (I’m surprised it didn’t just give you a number because most meters read up to at least 500). Just open the US SS and on those AMPS squares where it shows “error”, put the cursor in the square and type >450 and then manually color it in red by clicking on the pitcher in the toolbar and selecting the red color.

    If you need any help, just send me a PM.
     
  29. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    I am late to the party here, Manon ... but just wanted to say we're all glad you've joined us here in the "club" that none of us ever really wanted to join.:rolleyes:

    Sue gave you excellent dosing advice already, and you're in good company! Our ProZinc forum is small, but is full of BIG, caring hearts (which is true throughout all of the FDMB membership); we have high hopes for healthier, well-regulated kitties for all (with fingers, toes & paws crossed for remission, too, of course)! So a very warm welcome to you ... and can hardly wait to see a photo of your Joy in your avatar!:)

    P.S. Congratulations for getting your spreadsheet up so quickly.;)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
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  30. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so I'm an idiot:facepalm:. (Just fixed my post above, so that I don't have your name and your kitty's name all mixed up.:oops: Hmm, somebody here needs a nap. Oh, wait ... that would be everybody here, since we all deal with diabetic kitties.:p)
     
  31. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    I might have messed up his second shot seeing the readings...or it might be he ate more than he did yesterday, I find it hard to understand how I can regulate him with his high carb Kidney food, can anyone advise on that please?

    Sue and Oliver, where do I fill in Joy's medical issues and diet and what meter I use etc?

    and how do i link people in a thread?

    ......If I got a dollar for every "how do I", "How does this work" question I asked the past 4 day, I'd be rich, not a millionair just yet, but rich!

    Thank you all again for your help and advice, you guys are life savers! you truely are, and the dutch forum is great, if it wasn't for them, Joy wouldn't have been alive today!
    The vet send me off thursday with the following advice; 2 shots a day 1u, measure AMPS on monday and call and I will advice on further doses(!) no further info whatsoever...
     
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  32. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Since Joy's reading are so High, do I take away his high carb kidney food? He ate about 90gr today.
     
  33. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    To add the info and spreadsheet URL to your signature, go up to your name on the right hand top of this page, edit signature. Add the info and then choose Submit

    I don't think his numbers are very high. They really look pretty good

    To tag someone, use the @ and then their name
     
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  34. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    The 450 readings are 450> , my meter doesnt go higher then 450, but all the 450 readings mean higher then 450...
    and Joy doesnt feel well atm
    But still leave his high carb kidney food?
     
  35. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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  36. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Let's try to find another food. Here is a website for kidney kitties with food ideas. They are US brands, but maybe some are available there.

    http://www.felinecrf.org/

    Oops, I was looking at today's cycle. Yes, the 450 is high but it could be a bounce from the low numbers he saw today. A bounce is when their body perceives a lower than normal level and releases extra sugar. I'd give this dose a cycle and see what it looks like tomorrow.
     
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  37. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Manon - I just looked over Joy's SS; I just wanted to say that Joy may not be feeling so well because he had such a very steep drop yesterday: from a blood glucose of 450+ at AMPS all the way down to 65 is a BIG change; so he may be bouncing a bit now. This may, indeed, be why you're seeing the high reading at +4 now; when blood glucose drops much lower than kitty's body is accustomed to, it can cause a bit of "glucose panic" and the body finds & releases even more glucose, causing a spike high in the number again.

    Try not to worry too much, as this will pass. But that said, a kitty may bounce for awhile ... then will even out later.
     
  38. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Thank you, that helps, although I worry about his heart condition, he was just put on heart medicen, and I'm just not sure about it, after what my vet's advice on Prozinc, I question everything he does/says right now.
    I'll be switching vet's soon, I found a Vet who's also a specialised internist, but has no experiance with ProZinc, but no vet over here has... But I can't take Joy in to see a vet right now, it stresses him out so so bad, only in emergancies. Thank you again, im going to try to get some sleep, I can't do anything for him now.
     
  39. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    oh wait, I forgot to ask. If the AMPS is high (probs, right?) what would you suggest about his dose? I'm thinking 0,4 or 0,5 , what's best?
    Or is there a chance it will be a measurable reading?
     
  40. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Remember that vets have to know so much about different animals and different diseases. It's tough for them since they usually don't specialize. So I know the feeling of frustration, but you are doing what needs to be done for Joy. You're doing awesome!

    Please ask all the questions you can. We've ALL been there. Trust me, those of us who hang around to help do so because we want to pay it forward for the help we got when we arrived.

    I forget, are you using the u100 or the u40 needles?
     
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  41. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think I would stick with the lower dose -0.5 if it is easier to measure. Unless he is in the 200s. Then I would go lower.

    It is hard to guess what to do but not too many people are here for amps. My guess is that he may drop back down this cycle after the bounce and you might have a test in the 250-300 range. Will you be around tomorrow so you can get some tests in?
     
  42. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    I'm now using the U40 ones, but I hope to get U100's tomorrow
    I'll be checking in after I have the readings for AMPS, I want to check with you guys first, but to be honest...., I'll be bouncing to hear what to do cuz I'm trying to keep a strict schedule for Joy, he has too many variables already.
    I'm reading the link you send about food, I believe she is suggesting not to give Kidney food, but Hill's m/d and watch the phospor intake..., what to do? Are there other forum mebers with CKD and Diabetes combination? What do they use?
     
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  43. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    To find some other members with kidney kitties, post on Health, asking for specific CRF diets. They should have ideas about food.
     
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  44. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Oh #$%^%$&&&%!!! meter(S) ran out of strips!!! now what??? I can't do AMPS

    I have 2 meters 1 I recieved yesterday that works great with a small amount of blood but it came with just a few strips, I ordered the strips but they use a koerrier that doesnt work on weekends(!) and I have a meter from the vets, but it needs way too much blood and doesnt suck the blood up, I've used up all those strips to get a reading, but it just wont #$%^%$ work!!
     
  45. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Oke I got the reading and the dose in the end.

    But now this happened, please advise @Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel @Robin&BB
    Joys reading at +4 was 337, but 30 mins after I measured he started walking like a drunk and almost falling over, he lay down on his bed for a while and gagged but didn'y throw-up... are these bounging sympthoms?
    A drop to to0 low levels is not possible, right?
     
  46. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    No, that number is not too low. I am not sure what happened. How is he acting now? Did you get another test?

    Do you have ketone strips? They are another tool for your toolbox. You use the same kind human diabetics use and stick them in his urine stream. We have ways to get it done if he won't cooperate.
     
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  47. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Manon, if you can - please let us know what's going on with Joy. Thanks!
     
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  48. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    He's calm and sleeping right now. After what happened this morning (I had to do 7 or 8 attempts to get a good test, and his ears are sore) I don't wanna test him that much today, he's been through some much the past few days, I don't wanna get him to the point that he's scared of me. But if i have to I will ofcourse.
    I did buy Ketone strips, but the vet said not to use them for about 6 days (that was thursday afternoon) cuz he was atmitted to the vets from tuesday night to thursday afternoon and put on fluid IV, he said if I used the strips it would read ketone because of that.
    Joy just walked in the get a cuddle, but im still not sure about his walk, he's still a little unstable...
    How do I use the ketone sticks?
     
  49. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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  50. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    His Kalium and ..... (I forgot the name :( ) were fine tuesdaynight
     
  51. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Oh and the vet didnt do a ketone test cuz they don't do that (!) I bought it online thanks to the dutch form
     
  52. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Is he acting like himself? Were you able to get another test, Manon?

    You can do a ketone test at home. You just need the strips.
     
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  53. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    I just improvised with a ketone strip...
    I use woodchip catlitter and I found 2 big piles of pee, quite wet, I've put the stick in it for a minute or so and made sure it pressed the wet woodchips (put my fingers in it...)
    it gives a Neg: 0 reading. But is it the right way to test??
     
  54. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    Oh, good grief.
    That's so crazy ...:banghead:
     
  55. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I have never been able to ketone-test Bat (thankfully, haven't needed to, because she's pretty difficult), but I think you're supposed to try to get it from fresh urine alone (like maybe waiting until they pee, and get that stick under the urine stream). But I could be wrong about this; someone else will be along to advise you on it. @Bobbie And Bubba , @Sue and Oliver (GA)
     
  56. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    He's not been acting like himself for the past 2 weeks, its so hard to tell. He is walking about same amounts as usual and sleeping as much...
    I did do a test at the minute I saw him acting like this it's the +5 reading, my sheet doesnt show it but you can see it (ill ask marje about it)
     
  57. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    before he got like this (its been 3,5 hours ago now) he was very alert, eyes wide open and walking about, but more like he was on speed, then the drunk thing started.
    I just checked on him and he's sleeping calmly and his eyes look good (no large pupils)
     
  58. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Manon, with the ketone strips, you just want to dip the end of the test strip into the urine just until it's wet. Then you time 15 seconds and then hold the strip up to the container where the guide is and compare the color you are seeing on the strip against the colors on the container and it will tell you where you are as far as ketones go.

    It would be advisable for you to try and get another one in today to see if there are ketones. Did the vet start Joy on any new medicine that he could be reacting to? Is your vet opened today? It would be worth a call to tell them what is going on with Joy.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
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  59. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    About the unsteady walking: You may be seeing some diabetic neuropathy from Joy.

    Uncontrolled diabetes can cause the signals from brain to nerves in the legs to falter now and then, which can result in periods of walking around almost as though he's drunk. This can come and go, and if the diabetes is not treated, it can become progressive. So it's good that you're treating Joy because we've had kitties here who had some pretty severe neuropathy at the beginning. Over time with effective treatment for diabetes - the neuropathy problem improves, and often it even goes away completely.
     
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  60. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    He just walked around and on the terras/balkony his eyes look very good and he's talking a bit, seems he's feeling oke, follows me around, his walk is better.
    He's been through a lot the past few days and had some crazy drops, he's only 3kg and 18 years... Im thinking more in the line of heartproblems, high glucose can give heartproblems, right?
    So he was put on heart medicin on monday, but his glucose is fluctuating like crazy, he might not need heart medicin if his glucose levels are stable and reasonable, is what im thinking (out loud)
     
  61. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I do think it may be hard to separate his diabetic issues from his heart and kidney ones. The diabetes may be the easiest part to manage - though I am sure it doesn't seem like that right now. :bighug: As far as the diabetes, we'll just urge you to keep collecting numbers and we'll do our best to help you interpret them. It may be that our first goal is just to get him stabilized on a dose that doesn't take him terribly low or high. Our general range for regulation is in the mid 200s at preshot and double digits or low one hundreds at nadir, but not below 50 on a human meter. Once they are in those ranges, then we try to fine tune the dose and get them lower overall, safely.

    In general, we think it safer always to be a little high for a while than low for a minute. While fine tuning the dose, it is always wise to get a ketone test a couple times a week (@Ruby&Baco , do you have a place to buy ketone strips in the Netherlands?)

    It looks like you got some great diet ideas on the health forum. I hope some are available in Europe.
     
  62. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2015
    Hi Manon - you've got so many things going on and now so many advisors, I just wanted to say welcome and I too so understand what the first few weeks were like. We have total empathy for what you are going through
     
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  63. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    That sounds like what he's experiencing Robin, oh im so glad you posted this! I remember he had this slightly before his diagnose, his back wobbled a bit ....... I'm going to read up on diabetic neuropathy

    I just talked to a weekend vet (so not my own) he doesnt think it has to de with the diabetes treatment (he didnt even know Prozinc...)and he said his heart medicin is at an oke level and he didnt think it had to do with that.
    I was free to come (at sky high weekend rates...) to examin him further........

    btw.
    The dutch forum was put up because dutch vets are not diabetic specialist, there are only a few in the country. If I could tell/show you the stories shared in the dutch forum that talk about how poorly diabetic cat are treaded you would be in shock, hardly any vet gives good advise, owners turn to the web for treatment questions....
    My vet send me off on thursday with a quick showing on how to get blood from Joy's ear and how to do a shot, he told me to give a 1u shot at 9.00 and 21.00 on friday,saturday and sunday, TAKE HIS FIRST READING ON MONDAY AMPS and call him with the results and he would advice on doses use.....
    The dutch forum saved Joy, he would not be alive if it wasnt for them!
     
  64. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2015
    At least your vet showed you how to home test - alot of people have to fight with their vets to allow them to home test or switch vets because they won't accept any home test results
     
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  65. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    Ill try to test his ketones every other day. Ill keep his litter clean so when he pees, I can take a sample.
    The wood doesnt absorb quickly so there's usually a little puttle...
    Ill measure PMPS and +2 and +4 and +6 and see what they say, (thats at 23.00 and 1.00 and 3.00 at night/morning) but I don't think I can keep up testing round the clock.
    What would be a good schedule to follow?
     
  66. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    @Carol & Murphy I know the storries, horrible. My vet didn't want me to test at first either, but I had already spent 5 hours on internet searching for info on cat diabetics, so I was prepared.
    Now I have the feeling he is letting me do my thing and doesn't show or gives me any support, he just gets very defensive. I did find a new vet, she's also a specialized internist and I talked to her twice for over half an hour, and I'm not even a patient with her. But she insists on seeing Joy first before I can become a patient with her, she's right on insisting ofcourse and I completely understand. But Joy gets soooo stressed if I would take him, from the moment i put him in his travel basket, he looses hair, he poops he pees and is a nervous wreck at the vets and it takes him a day to get over the experiance, and that was before he got diabetic
    I'm not sure on how and when to make the switch and if I can put Joy through another vet visit right now, I just don't know....
     
  67. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Totally understand how you're feeling, Manon. But we're all here for you, and there are lots of experienced ProZinc eyes here to help you through this rough patch. Let's see how the rest of his cycle rolls out. You're handling all this very well, btw, considering everything that's going on.:bighug:
     
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  68. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    My vet has started prescribing gabepentin (a painkiller of sorts - mostly for nerve pain) for pre vet visit anxiety - its a human medicine and comes in 100 mgm capsules - give 1/2 to 3/4 of the capsule 2-3 hours before the vet visit or riding in a car. I can't really tell if it works - Murphy has been laid back when I give it to him - apparently the medicine is very safe, and the practice is becoming more common - something to consider. I don't think you should hold it against the vet to need to see Joy before she can become a patient - it's almost malpractice not to do that - ask about gabepentin or what about the pheromone sprayers - do you have those in the Netherlands?
    regarding your proposed schedule tonight - I suppose it depends on the pmps - the recommendation may be to test a +2 and develop a schedule based on that (be it +4- hopefully not past that) No one would expect you to be up all night - lets's get a good pmps and a nice safe dose tonight so you don't have to worry I know how stressful this is - I lost 6 lbs in the first 6 weeks (I think that is 3 kg) - unfortunately, after I got the hang of this I gained it back :eek:
     
  69. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    I'm so glad I found you all in here, together with the dutch form Joy has an almost round the clock care :D
    I did resarch tranqualizers or equivalants, I use Bach Resque drops, its homeopathic but doesnt work well enough. The effect of tranqualizers seems to do the job, but in dutch resarch it showed that the animal is very stressed but can't respond due to the tranqualisers, they are considered cruel now....

    And I haven't told you guys I have health issues myself, I have mild addison/cushing combination, it's a little simular to diabetics, only it's my cortisol level that fluctuate, I'm still in the diagnostic fase and it's very rare, especially the comination, usually it's on or the other. The low (addisoncrisses) is the scariest and there is now way to home test cortisol or even in a hospital, it has a curve aswell and everyone has a different curve. I've tried to take care of myself the past few days, I watched my food and fluid intake, i need enough fluids and salts, so it's not only Joy I'm monitoring. Only sleep ia a problem, my body doesnt release stress very well so when I do get some time to sleep, my body thinks otherwise.... So I need to balance a good schedule between joy and me :)
     
  70. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Dear Manon - you certainly have a lot going on right now - between your health and Joy's - I'm stressed just thinking about it - can you monitor your Addison's at home by blood pressure monitoring? just curious
    The gabapentin is not a tranqulizer - it is actually a neuropathic pain medication used to treat diabetic neuropathy, back pain and other pain caused by inflammed nerves it's not a regular pain med like an opioid either. It's worth researching
    We will do our best to help ease your stress with Joy's diabetes, and hopefully help you get your much needed sleep
    I have a soft spot for the Dutch because I am half Dutch - both of my mothers parents are Dutch (from Zeeland)
     
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  71. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    So sorry Manon! It's a holiday weekend for me....so naturally my stomach decided to mess up this morning.

    Just remember to breathe! This does get much easier as you go along, I promise. We all felt panicked and confused at first, but we got to the point where it was second nature and you will too!
     
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  72. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Yeaaa, an other dutchie :D

    That's definately worth researching! Does it help with the funny walk too?

    And no there is no way of tracking cortisol like that. I can do a 24 hour urine collection and bring it to the hospital, it gives a total number only. I need to be admitted in hospital for a couple of days for testing, but even them its difficult. Its a rare disease there's some treatment but diagnosing is very difficult in early stages, only when the readings in the tests are very clear, they can/will diagnose.
     
  73. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I have PTSD and it affects me similarly. I feel for you, Manon, for the sleep problems alone, but doubly so for the other complications related to monitoring and treatment of your condition. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  74. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    What medications are you giving to Joy at the moment?

    BTW re ketone testing, if you pop some cling film food wrap over the litter in the box in a spot where Joy regularly pees it may be easier to collect a little sample of urine for ketone testing.



    Mogs
    .
     
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  75. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    image.jpeg

    Just now, he's feeling oke, I'm so proud of him....
     
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  76. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Great tip @Critter Mom !! Thank you !

    I can so relate Mogs, I have ptsd, thats how I developed addison/cushing

    The meds Joy takes are mentioned in my signiture.
     
  77. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    oke I got his PMPS readings, pls check his chart. What should I give Joy? another 0.45? a skinny 0.5 i mean...
     
  78. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
  79. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    I would go with the same dose as this AM (your sheet isn't calculating the MMOL amps to the mg/dl from this morning btw)
    Sticking to the same dose is an advice i'll mostly get from the people here on this forum so kitties don't get the most change of bouncing. If you change a dose quickly every other day a cat can bounce a lot. So my advice (seeing Joy's PMPS) would be stick with the 0.45 (so the skinny 0.50 like you did this morning) But please wait for advice from others..
     
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  80. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Can you monitor this cycle? As I might be inclined (if he were mine) to try Joy at 0.60; I don't know that 0.50 will make much more difference than the 0.45 ... let's see what @Sue and Oliver (GA) thinks ...
     
  81. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    or a fat 0.5? ;)
     
  82. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Answered on your other thread. I'm with Robin. A little increase.
     
  83. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    I can monitor +2 +4 and +6 tonight
     
  84. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Yes, this is often true, Ruby. However, in Joy's case we're also dealing with both kidney disease and heart problems; the higher BG #s can be harder on already stressed kidneys & heart, so we probably would like to see Joy's BG #s come down a little more than if these other health problems were not happening.
     
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  85. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    oke 0.6 it is then
     
  86. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Yes that's true Robin. Thanks for sharing the reason behind the 0.60!
     
  87. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    @Sue and Oliver (GA) - Will you be around to keep an eye on this for a couple of hours? (I really do intend to nap, but had to wait until I tested/fed Bat-Bat.)
     
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  88. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, I will.
     
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  89. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I'm around for the next 2 1/2 hours as well.
     
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  90. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    awww he's getting scared of me now, he did the wobbling again 10 mins ago btw, if he doesnt feel well its hard to go through the mesuaring procedure with him.... poor guy I hope he'll feel a little better in an our or so.
    I will try to keep this thread going and not start another thread when I have a PS, I just get a little hyper and impatient cuz I know I have little time...
     
  91. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Great. Now that Bat has eaten and I know we have @Sue and Oliver (GA) & @Rachel here for you, I will enjoy that little nap without any worries. I'm glad you're feeling some better now, Rachel!:)
     
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  92. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Thank you all so much! I can't tell you guys enough, I can't explain how vauliable you guys are to me and Joy right now......
     
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  93. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Me too Robin! I think the tea and the kitty love I'm getting right now helped.

    We've all been there Manon! We are glad to have the chance to pay it forward!
     
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  94. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    sleep well Robin, get that well deserved rest, Joy and me are in good hands the comming hours

    (oke I had a little cry, but this time it wasnt from feeling stressed :D)
     
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  95. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Totally can relate to how you're feeling, Manon. I am dealing with a chronic illness, too, so know well how difficult it can be to balance your own health needs with managing the needs of your diabetic kitty. You're doing a great job, but please make sure to take care of you, too. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    P.S. Sometimes a little cry is a very good thing.:) (I do it far more often that I'd admit to most people ...)
     
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  96. Ruby&Baco

    Ruby&Baco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    You are doing great with Joy !
    I'm going to sleep in a couple off minutes, I'm off duty with Baco (she didn't need a shot tonight) so I can relax now after my shopping trip :)!
    So we will talk tomorrow! Try to relax, you're in great hands this PM cycle!
    :bighug:
     
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  97. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    @Ruby&Baco thank you so much sweetie! get that well deserved rest! We'll talk tomorrow :)
     
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  98. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    I'm going to use these 2 hours between measurments to rest a little, I'll be posting +2 later and consult with Sue and Rachel
     
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  99. Manon&Joy

    Manon&Joy Member

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    May 27, 2016
    I think Joy has lost some more weight, so he weighs less then 3kg , I'll weigh him when he feels a little better between +2 and +3 otherwise he'll jump off the scale
     
  100. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I am really not with it today... :oops:


    Mogs
    .
     
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