New job! Schedule questions

Hello all! As it says, I got a new job and begin on Monday, April 10. It's much more money and I'm looking forward to the position in general. The downside is, I won't be home to do the 12 hour schedule. I'll still be leaving at 5am each morning and depending on traffic won't be home until around 6pm. I can push Pita's shot back to around 5am right before I leave (instead of the current 4am time), but that would still be about 13 hours until I'm home. I feel terrible but at the same time it'll be better for me financially. I don't know what to do but figured I have 11 days to hopefully figure it out. Help please?!

 

Although a 12 hour schedule works well Prozinc is more "forgiving" with the timing. If you do an 11/13 or if worse comes to worse 10/14 schedule the only thing you need to know is that the numbers are rising before you shoot. The only down side is that you won't be able to get mid cycle testing except on your day(s) off.

 

I couldn't get mid cycle testing except on my days off anyway, so that's not new at least. I also don't mind (trying to) waking up in the middle of the night to test! So besides seeing a good pre shot number, how would I know that it's rising if I did the 11/13?

 

I was also going to say that you can go to a 13/11 or similar schedule and might have to dose differently AM and PM to accommodate the variation in length of cycle. ProZinc is quite flexible that way.

 

Grats on the new job!
Here's the section from the Sticky:
11/13 OR 13/11 DOSING

If your cat consistently has a lower AMPS or PMPS (or vise versa) AND IS NOT BOUNCING CONSISTENTLY, you might consider shooting early for the higher pre-shot number and later for the lower pre-shot number.

If the AMPS is high or normal, but 12 hours later the PMPS is too low either because of long duration and/or the nadir is late, you have two options:

• 1. Shoot the am dose one hour early (+11 relative to previous night’s pm dose) and leave the pm dose at normal time which will then be +13 since the am dose.
• - OR -
• 2. Leave the am dose at its normal time and shoot the pm dose one hour later which will be +13 since am dose. Either way, you need to see this as an issue and pattern over a few cycles to go this route.

This technique can also be used if the PMPS is high and the AMPS is too low.

The hope here is to smooth out the cycle and have two shootable numbers every 12 hours. It would, as always, be wise to seek advice from your vet or on the forum about this technique.

NOTE: If you are confused about bouncing, see the ProZinc/ PZI Protocol sticky or ask on the forum. You do not want to use this technique if your cat is continually bouncing from lower numbers.

 

Well that's a relief to say the least! I'm guessing he would need a lower dose at the 11 and higher at 13. I have all week to play around. How do I start that?

 

If at all possible to grab a test during the night that would give you a good idea on where the cycle went.

 

Oh gosh, I get it but now I'm nervous I'm gonna mess him up somehow!

 

Also, should I slowly go to the 11/13 over a few days or just go right into it and have the next 11 days to tinker around?

 

Congrats!!!! 11\13 is certainly doable. I think you could switch this week so you have time to play around with it some.

 

Congrats on the new job! That's great!

 

Thank you both!

If I start tomorrow, do you think I should just push the shots back by 15 minutes and see how it goes? I'll definitely need help with dosing because I'm prepared for numbers to be wacky

 

I'm curious what more expert people think, but I wonder if it's like when we stall? Tonight I stalled for 40 minutes, so by the time he ate and got his shot, the shot was nearly an hour late. But then in the morning, I can still give him his shot at the usual time (although I might use that as an excuse to sleep in an extra 20 minutes).

So you probably don't have to do 15 minute increments, but you could do it that way...and if nothing else, that might make the change in meal time easier on Pita. I don't know how fussy he is about dinner time, but if I moved dinner time by an hour all at once, there would be great wailing and gnashing of teeth around here. My ears are still ringing from the meow-fest that happened while I was stalling tonight!

So that's my theory...I have no idea if it's at all right though.

 

I love all of this Djamila! I forgot about the stalling and how that doesn't necessarily affect the next shot time (and yes to even sleeping 20 more minutes!) Oh Lord, the torture I would get if I waited an hour later to feed in the am! This is by far the truest statement. I'll slowly push up the am times but if I'm not even home until 6pm they can't bug me (at least on my work days) I'm also interested in the 'expert' advice but I'm very inclined to agree with your theories! Many thanks.

 

Yep, its kind of up to you. You CAN go back by an hour all at once...one of the beauties of ProZinc. But, to avoid the dinner time blues, you could do it by 15 min too. I changed my cats feeding times when I switched to a new job by 15 min increments over a weekend...Sat AM, breakfast at 5:15, Sat PM dinner at 5:30...until I hit 6 which was the new feeding time. We don't have any diabetics here at the moment, but to keep them happy and to avoid any sickness (they sometimes get nauseated if they eat too late) I did it like that.

So whatever works best for you and Pita! We'll certainly be checking in to see how you're doing and help you figure out a good dose as you transition. And we'll also want to hear about the new job!

 

I am so confused! I've been able to do the 11/13 time frame the past day and a half. He had a lower AMPS yesterday morning so I did a reduced dose, and his PMPS was a bit higher, but nothing out of the ordinary/ he also waited the 13 hours. I did a +5.5 to see where he was in that 11 hour frame and he was at 401. I just did his AMPS and he's at 457. I'm giving a regular 2 units but I'm so confused as to how he's going higher! I know at this point I'll see bouncing but those red numbers are a bit scary also. Definitely a whole new take on all of this that I don't understand yet. Plus I feel horrible about switching his time now since he had been doing so well

 

I'm sure he'll get off the trampoline If you squint, that 401 is a pink . I'm wondering if his body is just adjusting to the new schedule too.

 

Those reds do seem a little surprising and out of place given his usual numbers. Any changes in food? extra stress? possible UTI? It doesn't seem like just shifting his shot should cause that. I flex Sam's shot fairly often because of work and that doesn't happen. Although maybe it's an ECID kind of thing.

 

If you're extending the length of the day cycle because of work, you might have to increase the AM dose a little to get the extra coverage. Conversely, the night cycle is shorter so you might have to decrease the PM dose a little. You'll have to do a bit of experimenting. You could start by leaving the doses the same to gather baseline data and go from there. Also, remember that many kitties go lower at night for any number of reasons.

 

Any possibility he got into contraband?

 

No food changes, don't know where extra stress would come from and God I hope not! He seems to be urinating/drinking normally. I'll see what his PMPS brings soon.

Yes, I figured as much with the more in am/less in pm dosing. I went with the decrease when his AMPS was in the 100's the other day. I kind of wish I had given a slightly higher dose this am when the 400's showed up, but I didn't Now of course, going back to work tomorrow, I don't want to do an increase since I won't be home. I'll see what tonight brings. Thank you!

I only have canned food and unless he can open my drawer and a plastic container, I'm gonna say no Although he is smart......hmmm.

Besides seeing his PMPS soon, I'm wondering if I should seriously look into a timed feeder. I've always only fed at 12 hour intervals but I'm wondering if 13 is pushing it and can negatively affect him. If I do get one, can I put wet food into it? I want to keep dry food as testing treats only. All thoughts welcome with the midday feeding because of 13 hours!

 

OoOo Just found this one. For one meal
http://a.co/2i2by8h

 

Thank you!

Go figure, his PMPS was just 233. Lower than his +6.5 (257). Not sure if I should give a slightly reduced dose now, for the 11 hours or keep it at the 2 units?! Need to shoot soon!

 

Although since he's been in the 400's the past few test, maybe I should stick with 2. Aaah!

 

How long can you monitor tonight?

 

I won't be in bed for another 4 hours or so but can also set alarms to wake up.

 

You've given 2U before for similar numbers. I think it is OK

 

Thanks Yong!

 

Hey, aren't you also on an 11/13 schedule?!

 

Hey Caitlin! Sorry I wasn't around earlier...just got back from seeing Beauty and the Beast. Not gonna lie...shed a few tears.

If I was you, I think I'd look into a timed feeder. Giving him a snack midday will help tide him over until dinner. Plus then you can know he will have food available if he's going low at all during the day. I'm sure the extra hour of waiting for dinner won't kill him, but it could cause an upset tummy possibly or just a mad kitty!

 

When the idea vocalized, Maury decided he didn't want 11/13

 

Haha I've heard it was good! Thanks, I think I'll get one and see how it goes. I won't be sure that Pita will even get to eat any if his brother gets to it first, but I can monitor them next weekend!

Oooh, was gonna ask how it was going! Know anyone else who's on it?

 

Not anyone in our group, that I'm aware of. I don't know if it's do-able with Lantus, they have stricter protocols.

 

I'd try the 2 u because, as Yong said, you've given this on

Lantus works best if a strict 12/12 dosing schedule is followed.

 

Morning all! Had a nice AMPS of 188, looked at my SS and decided to do the 2 unit. Saw that on 3/25 his AMPS wasn't much higher and I did 2 units then. Plus a friend is stopping by while I'm out so they're going to put out some food around 1:30 today. Anyone who does midday feeding- how much food do you put out? I was thinking half a can (2.75 oz) but not sure if that's too much.

 

How's Pita's weight? If he's OK or needs to gain, half a can should be fine.

 

He's at an okay weight right now, but he's sharing food with his brother. I do 1, 5.5 oz can each am and pm so I figured half is fine

 

AMPS was 123, shot 1.8. Friend will be stopping by for the food at 1:30 again. Just ordered a feeder!

 

Wow! What a low AMPS. I think some food would be good for this afternoon...that's a lower number than you've shot before I believe.

Hope the feeder makes life easier for ya!

 

It is the lowest! I was so torn about the dose but decided to go with it. Hoping the feeder works well, thanks

 

Let us know! I've been wanting a feeder but never got around to ordering one. did you get the petsafe?

 

Whew! Brave! It's good that your friend is stopping by. Have you established a "no shot" number" yet? It's good to have this worked out in your mind beforehand. Doesn't necessarily mean no shot - it could also mean stall/retest or shoot a token dose. I'm not trying to alarm you by asking. We can push the envelope once we have a lot of data but we need to be prepared.

BTW - shooting on a low PS like a green as I've done with Teasel is a Lantus thing. It's a slower onset insulin.

 

Glad your friend stopped by to bring food! That is a pretty low number to shoot, even if there was a timed feeder. I would go with Kris' suggestion to decide on a no-shot number, especially for cycles when you won't be able to monitor. It's okay to skip a shot, or shoot a very tiny amount, when the numbers warrant it.

 

Oh gosh, I'm so nervous now! I have no idea what my no shoot # should be. Any recommendations? I usually give him his shot right before I leave so I wouldn't even be able to retest except Wed, Sat, Sun. I thought ProZinc was also slower...?

 

ProZinc is slower than, say, Vetsulin, but not nearly as slow as Lantus. Maybe try 150 as your no shot number? That still requires data, experience and bravery. Maybe raise it on work days?

 

Okay, would I not just lower the dose?

 

Yes, you would. Your no shot number is your comfort/experience cut off below which you don't give insulin UNLESS 1. you stall/retest/give a lower dose 2. give a tiny token dose - eg. 0.5 u. If you have to leave or aren't feeling brave when your NS number happens you go with the NS option.

Here's the way it can be broken down;

Yikes! Pita is below 150 for PS! (or 180 or 200, etc.). What are my options????

1. stall 20 min/retest/repeat until at your NS number then give a slightly lowered dose (guesswork + experience)
2. give a small token dose so he has some insulin in him (how small depends on the size of dose he's at) because you have to leave
3. no shot.

While it's the safest, option 3 is least desirable. Something else I did successfully was to feed Teasel, wait 45 minutes or so, retest (BG would be up from food) and give him his normal dose. I'm able to monitor though.

 

Thank you SO much for all of that, I appreciate it.

 

When you say stall, do you mean stall feeding also or would I feed, stall the dose, then retest?

 

I mean do the PS test and if it's low wait without giving food for about 20 minutes then retest. It's to see if the BG is on the rise on its own. You can repeat up to an hour total of stalling without food. If the BG is rising it's safer to give a larger dose.

 

Thanks! That's what I thought, but wanted to clarify.

 

I have lots of stalling notes in my SS if you want to look lol

 

PMPS was just at a nice 258. To maybe see if I get a higher AMPS, should I decrease tonight's dose or stay at the 2? Thanks in advance!

 

I'd stick to the 2U. Since he had a lower AMPS, it might be a tiny bounce.

 

Sounds good. Plus, if I get a lower AMPS tomorrow I'm around for a bit so I can retest.

 

Beautiful PMPS!

 

Very nice! He survived.

 

Lol, I won't lie, almost every day that I walk in and see him waiting for me, I say a little 'thank god!'. I'm going to get ready for a low AMPS again, but will have an extra 2 hours to stall/retest if necessary. If that keeps happening, I'll take it as the sign to look into modifying doses for the 11/13. He seems to be doing really well with the change though!

 

Maybe this was one of those changes that just came at the perfect time!

 

And now he'll stay at these beautiful numbers for the rest of his life right?!

 

Or even better numbers. If you scroll down your spreadsheet, the pre-shots are trending lower and lower.

 

AMPS was 171. Anyone awake with advice for dosing?! Was going to do 2 units and test in 2 hours/friend put out food midday again.....

 

Considering I gave 1.8 yesterday on a 123 amps, I'm going to stick with 2 units. I'll test in 2 hours before I leave and my friend will give food later!

 

Sorry Caitlin. I wish I was awake your time! (Honestly, I might have been...dang weather radio kept going off, but I kept turning it off and going back to bed).

I think 2 was fine! You've given 2 on a 188 recently and he seemed fine that night. Glad you were able to get a test in a few hours after. That will help us as you continue to get these lovely preshots!

We didn't mean to take your confidence yesterday...we were just worried as that's a lower number than most of us would shoot at. You're doing fine!

 

I don't wish being up that early on anyone! Thanks! I'm glad I'm starting to be able to look back and see comparable numbers with the dose I did. I'm okay, just being a bit cautious now as I wasn't quite sure of a no shoot number! Thanks for looking out ☺️

 

Isn't it great what a SS full of data can do for us? Looking good!

 

Thank you all!

 

Caitlin - just saw your 111 at +2. Have you left for work already? Are you going to be able to get any more tests? With that number at +2, I'm really curious where Pita is going at nadir...

 

That's a 60 point drop at +2 . There's still room to go before reaching 50 but that's cutting it pretty close.

 

Do you think Pita might be ready for a dose reduction? Or not yet?

 

I

Gave him food before I left and my friend will be giving food at 1:30 again.

I was wondering that as well but i think his pm needs to be reduced so that his amps is slightly higher because he'll be 13 hours without insulin. So lower pm dose, higher am dose. Just not sure how to proceed.

 

Ok all, I still have about an hour and a half until all the pm stuff, but wanted to check in now. If his PMPS is in the 200's as it has been the last few days, should I decrease tonight's dose to see what his AMPS brings tomorrow?

 

That's a good question...I'm just going to think out loud here for a minute...

He has 11 hours from PM dose to AM dose which would mean reducing a little would make sense so that his AMPS is a safer number, and more balanced with the PMPS numbers.

He has 13 hours from the AM dose to the PM dose, which might mean he needs a little extra at that point to last longer...except today he was dropping fast and didn't really have any extra room to deal with a larger dose....which means if you increased his daytime dose for the extra hour, he would be risking a hypo at a time when you can't monitor. So I would say his response to the insulin is a bigger factor than the number of hours because of the monitoring issue.

So maybe you need to reduce both doses a little bit: the PM dose so he's a little more balanced in the morning, and the AM dose so he's in safer numbers while you're away.

But all of that is purely guessing since it looks like his nadir is around +6, and there aren't a ton of data points for that time (wouldn't it be nice if none of us had to work?).

So really, that wasn't helpful at all. Hopefully someone wiser than I am comes along before you need to shoot.

If you do go with your thought to decrease this evening, what dose are you thinking?

 

I agree that his insulin response trumps number of hours between doses. Why not lower both doses: 1.8 u tomorrow AM because he dropped fairly low by +2 while you were away and maybe 1.6 tonight to compensate for the 11 hour cycle and maybe leave him a tad higher tomorrow AM.

 

And still make money . I really don't know what I'm going to do when I start working again, besides the obvious: worry about Maury and thank the heavens every day I come home and he's OK

On topic. I think the double reduction might work out well. Curious to see!

 

I can do that! I agree about his responses. My thought was that his amps has been lower due to his 2 units pm dose, so if I reduced it, theoretically his amps would be a bit higher and safer. Then I could give the 2 units in the am when he has longer to drop. Sooo yah, I'll see what his PMPS is and post it before I shoot tonight to see if the 1.6 is still good!

 

Although I don't think you finished....

 

Yeahhhh I typed faster than the computer put it in when I hit Post Reply lol
I fixed!

 

Yep, his reaction to the insulin is quite different! I'm with everyone else...a reduction for both seems like a good plan.

 

210 PMPS! Do we all think 1.6 units tonight?

 

Can you get a test in a few hours?

 

Yes

 

Sorry, I'm obsessed with mid-cycle numbers right now. Yes, I think 1.6 is a good idea.

 

You haven't seen that PM number like that since 18 Feb . 1.6 sounds OK here too

 

Thanks all! I'm quite pleased

 

Dose reductions are always exciting! Fingers crossed Pita has many more in his future!

 

+5.5 (half the 11 hours) was 64! Not going to even worry about it because I've never woken up to test at this time anyway. So yayyyy!

 

Wow! Looks like that dose reduction was a very good idea!

 

You might think about doing 1.6 for the AM dose as well, unless his AM is super high or something. It looks like he's responding really well to the insulin right now.

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

AMPS was 210. I'd'like to give 1.8 since it's an extra 2 hours until his next dose, BUT that's exactly what his PMPS # was last night and he got down to that 64. I'll do the 1.6 again and see what his PMPS brings and go from there.

 

Sheesh, I just had such a scare! I put their wet food down and then opened a new bag of dry treats to put into the container. Well, Pita decided to stop eating and hang out, thinking he was getting more treats! I put his brother in a different room and waited a few minutes (treats gone) but he didn't even look at the wet. I finally put a few pieces of his treat food into the wet and then he ate normally. Gah, figured it was the perfect time to refill since they'd be eating, but nooo! Almost had a heart attack.

 

Ha, Pita thought it was treat time! Yeah, I've learned not to get anywhere near the treats at dinner time or they won't eat anything!

 

Lol...same thing here! It took forever to get Sam back to his dinner bowl the other day when I just touched the treat bag while he was eating! The only ingredient they list is rabbit, but there must be something magical in those things!

 

I understand the conflict between doses. When they're being super responsive like this, it's so hard to guess which cycles need which dose. There really isn't any way to know without staying home from work for the next month, which obviously isn't realistic. You just have to make the best educated guess you can.

 

He's doing really well right now so proceeding with caution is the way to go.

 

PMPS of 223, giving 1.6 again tonight and will see about tomorrow am! I also got my feeder, so I'm testing it tonight and will be using it for them tomorrow! My random question though - my friend had been giving food at about 1:30pm/ 8.5 hours after his am shot. I had planned on feeding at 11:30/ 6.5 hours after shot. I know I can play around, but if his PMPS seems to be good after the 8.5 hours feeding, which time frame should I do?! Hope that makes sense.

 

Yeah for the feeder! Does it just have one compartment for food? Or does it have more slots?

If it's a one-slot feeder, I would think the most important time for the extra meal would be just before nadir so that if Pita is dropping too low, he can eat and bring himself back up.

 

It's just one which is why I'm thinking the 6.5

 

I think it's safer for your sanity and him if he has food available at +6.5. I know the +8.5 wouldn't work for Maury that's why he gets lunch earlier. He doesn't seem to eat much after nadir (course after this post he will start, of course) just finish his lunch or a few bites of YA.

Which feeder did you decide on?