New Member asking for help

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Hresko, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Yes it's normal, though the meters read much closer together in normal blood sugar numbers. At the higher end, you will see quite a difference.

    Good luck with the new dose.
     
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  2. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Thank you!
     
  3. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Go Kitty Boy, Better numbers, keep up the good work. Kitty Boy, looks just like my Kit Kat who I call Kitty Kat all the time.
     
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  4. Hresko

    Hresko Member

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    Sep 23, 2020
    Thank you!!!
     
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  5. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Good Morning Friends! Can one of you helpful people look at Kitty Boy's readings and recommend a new dosage? Thank you.
     
  6. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Help needed! Good Morning! I went ahead and upped Kitty Boy's dose to 6.5 units because I didn't hear anything back. I hope that I'm doing the right thing. Can anyone please let me know? Thank you.

    @Wendy&Neko

    @Deb & Wink
    @Lisa and Witn (GA)
     
  7. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I don't have experience with high dose cats so @Wendy&Neko probably would be better to guide you.

    @Wendy&Neko can you recommend what tests the vet should run to determine why he needs so much insulin?

    By knowing what else is going on will help you manage his diabetes and any other health issues.
     
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  8. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    How old is the Lantus?
    I would continue with the 6.5U and see what happens. You may have a high dose cat.
    Yes it is frustrating to see little if any improvement with BGs
     
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  9. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    The Lantus is new. I keep it at room temperature once it's opened.
     
  10. Pookie

    Pookie Member

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    Oct 10, 2020
    This may be a problem. The Lantus sticky says:

    In-use and unopened Lantus, Basaglar, and Levemir should be stored in the refrigerator between 36 to 46 degrees F (2 to 8 degrees C).

    You might want to start a new thread asking about that.
     
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  11. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Please put the Lantus in the fridge, it will last longer than way. The note to keep it outside the fridge is for people and not cats. People usually go through insulin much faster. Having said that, at one point my cat was getting more insulin per day than a diabetic friend of mine. :p But that's because she had two conditions that sometimes mean cats need higher doses. Those two conditions, that you should probably ask your vet about testing for are called acromegaly (a benign tumour on the pituitary gland that sends out excess growth hormone) and IAA or insulin auto antibodies (think of it like an allergy to injected insulin).

    To reiterate Larry's question - how long have you had the Lantus and been keeping it at room temperature?
     
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  12. Hresko

    Hresko Member

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    Sep 23, 2020
    Our vet and the pharmacy both said that the Lantus does not need to be refrigerated after it is opened and stored at room temperature for up to 28 days. What he doesn't use in 28 days we throw away. Here's something I copied from the Lantus website:

    HOW TO STORE YOUR OPENED LANTUS SOLOSTAR PEN After its first use, don’t refrigerate the Lantus SoloStar pen. Keep it at room temperature only (below 86°F). After 28 days, throw your opened Lantus pen away—even if it still has insulin in it.

    I'm happy to keep it in the refrigerator if you think it makes a difference however I am not in a position to allow it to set out an hour before administering it.

    As for the conditions mentioned above. After spending over $2,000 dollars we made the decision to not go to an internal doctor. All we know is he originally had an urinary tract infection and that was cleared with antibiotics and he has Pancreatitis.
     
  13. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I store Buddy's Lantus in the refrigerator and keep it for months as do a lot of other FDMB members. I have talked to different vets and Pharmacist and have been told that if you refrigerate your Lantus it will last until the expiration date on the pen, no need to throw away after 28 days unless you just want to spend the money.
     
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  14. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Throwing out the insulin after 28 days is a waste. Check out this Sticky Note: Insulin Care & Syringe Info: Proper Handling, Drawing, Fine Dosing
    Specifically "In-use and unopened Lantus, Basaglar, and Levemir should be stored in the refrigerator between 36 to 46 degrees F (2 to 8 degrees C)." The instructions you are quoting are for humans using Lantus. My pharmacist had a lot of cat clients, and told me to store it in the fridge too.

    Lantus doesn't need to be stored in the fridge, but it lasts a lot longer if you do. We've had people use vials for up to 6 months. If you are using the pen, do NOT use the pen needles but use syringes instead. You do have to store the pens out of the fridge if using pen needles.

    If you want to warm it up before injecting, I held the filled syringe between my fingers for a bit first.
     
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  15. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    We use the syringe needles and he goes through a pen in less than a month.
     
  16. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Thdn I do not think "old" insulin is the problem. Unless you use the pen and pen needles I would still keep it in the fridge unless when drawing out the insulin.

    I wouod still continue with the 6.5U and see what happens with BGs. In past you got some good drops by recently very little drop on BG from shot time.
     
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  17. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Thank you. I agree I don't believe old insulin is the problem. I'm going to use a new pen beginning tomorrow and keep it in the refrigerator.
     
  18. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    My kitty Buddy has been and maybe still is insulin resistant, but not as bad. At one time he was up to 10u 2 x a day, then he started coming down, he still uses more than a lot of others but not as much as 10u. Buddy, also has chronic pancreatitis which seems to make his BG run higher. The only reason I have not taken Buddy to an internal medicine doctor is because there is none in the area where I live, the very nearest one wants $600.00 for an office visit and then I have no guarantee that they will do what I want done. Which is a larger dose of prednisolone. Good luck, it looks as though you are headed in the right direction, you are getting a lot of response.
     
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  19. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    With the pens and it being refrigerated, you should be able to use almost every drop in the pen
     
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  20. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Good Morning. Can you please check Kitty Boy's chart after four days at 6.5 units and give a dosage recommendation? I opened a brand new Lantus pen yesterday and am storing it in the refrigerator and it made absolutely no difference. Thank you!
     
  21. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Hello I haven't heard anything and I want to change his dosage because it's the fifth day on 6.5. Can anyone please help? Thank you.
    @SashaV @Lisa and Witn (GA) @Diane Tyler's Mom @Critter Mom @Teresa & Buddy @Larry and Kitties @Wendy&Neko
    I'm tagging everyone that has helped because I'm not getting any replies. Do you what I've noticed? People are very quick to point out what I'm doing wrong but when I'm asking advice nothing. Do I begin a new thread? Is everyone as stumped as I am? Feeling alone right now please help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi,

    I'm sorry no-one replied to your previous posts in time, and I note that you've upped the dose in the meantime to 7.0IU Lantus.

    The board is always quieter at yuletide. I've been in the process of catching up and only just got to this now.

    Couple of tips for getting faster answers in the future:

    1. Start a new thread each day. When a thread is very long then some members assume that you are getting enough assistance (even though this may not be the case). Also, it's easier for members looking to reply to you if there aren't too many 'historical' posts to get through before being able to offer you practical assistance.

    2. Starting a new thread will usually mean a 'fresh' description of the specific help you need and should attract more helpful replies. (Note: You can, if required, change the title of an existing thread in the middle of the day using the 'Thread Tools' option in the opening post on the thread.) You can include a link to the previous thread in the opening post so that any members wishing to look for older info will be able to find it easily.

    3. Setting the 'question mark' icon against the thread title will attract more attention to it. It also helps if you tell members in the thread title when a request for assistance is time critical.

    4. As you've no doubt noticed, the most recently replied-to thread appears at the top of the board. If you haven't had an answer then your thread will move further down the list. To bring your thread back up to the top of the board, reply to it yourself with the word 'Bump'.

    5. As a Lantus user, you can also post for help and advice on the Lantus/Basaglar and Levemir Support Group's board. That board generally tends to have more footfall than Feline Health, and there are some experienced Lantus users active on that board who rarely, if ever, post on Feline Health and therefore would not see your threads on this board.

    I hope some of the above tips are helpful to you.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
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  23. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I could not reply for your answer about raising Kitty Boy's dose because in the beginning one of the monitor's called me down and said I did not have enough experience to help you with dosing. Also, I did not see you asking for help. I believe you are doing a good job of raising his dose on your own, you are on your way to getting the right dose to bring him down the way you want. I will tell you I still have problems with Buddy's high numbers because of his pancreatitis and his BG shooting up high.
     
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  24. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Thank you and I really do appreciate your guidance. You have a cat that struggles with the same issues therefore you have experience and I thank you for taking the time. I have yes taken this in my own hands I just keep increasing his dosage every three days and I will continue to do that unless his numbers go higher. I feel like I'm shooting darts into the dark I'm sure you can relate. I also appreciate you sharing that you still have problems with Buddy's high numbers although of course I want the best for Buddy it allows me to have realistic expectations. My intention is to keep increasing until I get to maybe 10 and then reevaluate all of his numbers and give him the lowest dose I can because it doesn't seem to make any difference right now if he gets 3 units or 7 units. I'll keep plugging along thank you Teresa so much for your help!!!!!
     
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  25. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020

    Thank you so much I am grateful for all of the helpful tips you shared. This helps me hopefully get more responses. As I mentioned I just took this into my own hands. I was really stuck trying to decide to go up or down in the units because he actually seemed worse the higher I went but it just fluctuates so much. He has the same food every day all he ever gets is Fancy Feast Classic Pate so it's frustrating because there is no making sense of his numbers. I'll keep going trying to find a dose that helps him. Thanks again for taking the time to respond and help guide me I feel so lost but better now.!!! Merry Christmas.
     
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  26. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    When Buddy first became diabetic he was using Prozinc, with this insulin you use U40 syringes. I wanted to be able to use U100 syringes with a 1/2 unit mark, so I got a conversion chart which showed me how to dose using U100 syringes with Prozinc. Somehow, I read wrong and I thought I was giving him 5u and I was really giving him 8u, it did not make any difference, his numbers were still the same. I did not have any luck until we got to 10u and then he started coming down. Buddy, still is not regulated because of his pancreatitis. I had Buddy checked for Acro & insulin resistance, he was insulin resistant. Sometimes there is a reason why your cat is needing a larger dose, you could talk to Wendy, she has experience with this. If they are telling you to increase your dose in so many days and you are not seeing the numbers you want then i would do what they told me to do and increase the dose.
     
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  27. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    I do use the syringes with the 1/2 unit mark but it's difficult to read. Our vet suggested we take Kitty Boy to an internal doctor because she didn't know what to do however, she told me that at 7 units. I am not in a position to do that at this time nor do I want to put him through the tests. I looked at Buddy's chart and it looks good to me. Have you stopped testing now? I'm looking forward to the day he has numbers in the 300's and I will stop testing. Thank you again they haven't really told me to keep increasing the dose because they are not responding but it's okay I will follow what I'm doing and I'm not alone because I've got you!!! Thank you again!!!
     
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  28. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    The reason Buddy's SS is not up todate is because I take care of my 99 year old mother and besides Buddy who takes a lot of care and different meds, i have another cat who takes 2 different meds 2 x a day and a 15 or 16 year old 3 legged cat who I take care of. I am going to try again in 2021 to keep Buddy 's SS up to date. Are you following SLUGS or TR, the 1 that you are following will tell you how often to raise your dose. I would follow that, at this time Buddy would be running in the red and blacks. The last time i looked at Kitty Boy's SS it looked as though he was in the 300's, when I finish this I am going to look again. The moderator made it clear that I was not to help with dosing, she said I did not have enough experience.
     
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  29. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    i jus
    I just looked at Kitty's SS and it is looking better, he was in 290's, that is much better. When I give Buddy enough insulin to bring him down from the real high numbers he gets too low. I am going to try to make Buddy a SS for 2021.
     
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  30. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    It sounds like your hands are full taking care of others. I was hoping that Buddy was in a good place and you didn't need to keep testing him.

    I'm not aware of SLUGS or TR can you explain please?

    I'm so excited Kitty Boy's reading was just 204!!!
     
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  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Glad you found them helpful. Hope they work better for you. :)

    I very much recommend that you refer to the Lantus Dosing Methods sticky for guidance and also post for help on the Lantus board. There are members there who have experience with cats who need higher doses of insulin and they will be able to help you further.

    I see from the spreadsheet that, following six cycles at 7.0IU Lantus, you have now increased the dose to 7.5IU. Am I correct to infer that you want to follow the Tight Regulation dosing method? Assuming that you do, you have now started seeing yellow nadirs so if you need to increase again you should be looking at increments of 0.25IU. From the guidelines:

    Increasing the dose:
    • Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
      • if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.
      • when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.
    • Increase by 0.25 unit after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300.
    • Increase by 0.5 unit after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are greater than 300.
    [Emphasis mine]

    And blessings of the season to you too. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
    Reason for edit: Formatting.
  32. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I would never not test Buddy and I would never give an insulin shot with out testing Buddy. A cat's insulin needs change and if you are not testing you could cause a hypo. I think it is great that Kitty Boy is @ 204. If you go to Lantus at the top of the page there will be sticky's that explain SLUGS or TR.
     
  33. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If I may ask a favor...

    This thread is VERY long. Could you start a new thread tomorrow?

    @teresa and Buddy: The two dosing methods are. Tight Regulation (TR) and Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). The abbreviation is not SLUGS, although it would be easier to remember! The information on Lantus dosing is in this link.
     
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  34. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2017
    Sorry, for the typo.
     
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  35. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Be sure to double check Kitty Boy tonight since his numbers are running lower than usual, also you may end up bouncing tonight.
     
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  36. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    I just saw this. I believe that low Morning reading was incorrect because it didn't get enough blood on the strip. Thank you
     
  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm not so sure that the yellow AMPS was a duff reading because Kitty Boy's numbers headed up into the reds later in the cycle so they might have been bouncing in response to it.

    Again, I strongly encourage you to start posting on the Lantus/Basaglar and Levemir Support Group board. There are members who post there who have experience in managing cats who need higher doses and they could help you to help Kitty Boy - and we really do want to help you both.

    In the meantime, I'm tagging @Wendy&Neko to ask her to please look at your spreadsheet and Kitty Boy's dosing.


    Mogs

    (@Sienne and Gabby (GA) - I know the thread's too long, but I considered it wisest for safety to post this entry here rather than prompt for a new thread to start. Hope that's OK.)

    .
     
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  38. Hresko

    Hresko Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2020
    Thank you where do I get access to the Lantus/Basaglar and Levemir Support Group board please. I did Google search and it takes me to this site.
     
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  39. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    This is the link to the Lantus board. It's part of the FDMB site. The link you posted is exactly right!! The posting conventions are a bit different on the Lantus board (vs. here on Health). You'll want to look over the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board to get oriented.

    @Critter Mom -- Thanks, Mogs.
     
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  40. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    To go to the Lantus forum, click on this blue link Lantus forum here, and start with a new thread there.

    It's great you are finally seeing yellows. That means progress and you are going in the right direction with your dosing. I will comment more over on the Lantus forum.
     
  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
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