New Member - Buddy's Adventure

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Buddy’s Ma, May 23, 2020.

  1. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Three weeks ago I took my beloved 6 year old Buddy in to the ER because my brother had fed him a raw piece of his steak and he began vomiting/seeming off in the following 2 days. What caused me to rush him in was he began peeing while lying down, seemingly comfortable, and didn't get up at all. I had to lift him to make sure he didn't pee on himself and there was a TON of it.

    I then began a nightmare of a time with this new ER clinic that just opened up and was basically told that if money was an issue, to consider euthanizing him, without any idea as to what was going on.

    The one vet suspected he was DKA and after running a test (I can't remember what it was called now) she told me that that was indeed the case and it would cost $2,500 a day to try to save him and even then, there was no guarantee. I'm a floral designer so COVID has really messed up my income with the weddings and events industry here in Alberta, Canada taking a huge hit, and I had mentioned this from the get-go.

    This was at 5:30AM and I was in total shock, I had said something along the lines of "Let's see how much money I can borrow from friends and family and worst case scenario, maybe we put him on pain meds and let him pass at home" to which she responded to by yelling at me saying that would be animal abuse, she would refuse to release him, and call the cops on me. I've been an animal welfare advocate my whole life so I was even more taken aback by this, I of course did not want Buddy to suffer at all but the thought of euthanizing him over a lack of funds was unacceptable to me.

    I then spiralled into a really dark depression and was in so much pain that I considered ending my life. I couldn't believe that we have allowed life or death and finances to exist in the same realm. After talking to some of my closest loved ones and my spiritual coach, I medicated to numb the extreme pain, posted about doing bottle drives for Buddy's bill, and crashed.

    The next morning I woke up to a much more wonderful vet who said he ran an ultrasound (free of charge) and confirmed pancreatitis with a diabetic complication. He said Buddy did have a large amount of ketones in his blood but he was not acidotic which was good. And day by day, with Dr. Williamson, Buddy began improving while I collected bottles and loved ones donated to his bills.

    On I believe the fourth day, I got a call saying Buddy wasn't breathing well and they thought I should go in to see him just in case because he was in critical condition. I was heartbroken seeing my boy hooked up to a nasal feeding tube, needing oxygen, and with about 3 different IVs in him, but when I got past my anxiety of it all and sat with Buddy - I KNEW it wasn't his time.

    He peed on me while visiting and was rushed to the back where they found his chest and abdomen had filled with fluid and the cardiologist suspected heart failure. The new vet came back basically saying they couldn't treat his heart condition without upsetting the pancreas (because it needs fluids) and vice versa, and again, talked about euthanasia.

    I broke down and refused and told them to try everything they could because I knew it wasn't his time. I created a floral bouquet special to try and make more money, continued bottle driving (and still am), and offered gift card options on my website. It was great to at least focus on controlling finances since I couldn't control anything else.

    In the following days he was cleared of the fluid, put on heart medication, given a blood transfusion, and transferred to a criticalist in another city where he finally stabilized enough to come home. They thought he had gone DKA one more time before this but, again, his blood was not acidotic which was good and the ketones were cleared to trace amounts.

    On May 13, 2020 my baby was finally discharged with a $21,000 bill in tow, an esophageal feeding tube and is on Pimobendan (for his heart), Caninsulin, and has finished his Cerenia but is getting Buprenorphine as needed. Yesterday and today he's seemed as close to back to normal as he has been with no signs of pain so I haven't given him any as of this morning.

    The criticalist discharged him with the instructions to feed him a 100ml slurry of Hills A/D mixed with 25ml water and a probiotic 3x a day and 3U of Caninsulin in the morning and night (12hrs apart). He's a big boy, sitting at about 9kgs, so this doesn't surprise me but also still seems a tad much. He has shown interest in eating but will paw at his food dishes as if he's burying them (this was even while he was on Cerenia). I wonder if he's just too full all the time to eat on his own. It's really disheartening that he hasn't since he has been home but I'm trying to focus on the positive improvements he's making every day.

    I did a glucose and ketone urine test yesterday and both came out negative, and we're doing a curve with the FreeStyle Libre device which has been really helpful. I don't understand the 100 values I see you all talking about because the Libre gives mmol/L readings and Buddy is sitting at highs of about 15 with nadirs around 9-6 so all the vets are happy with how he's doing on Caninsulin, I believe they tried Lantus originally and he didn't respond well to it. Will double check that and look into the 100 values more when I get the chance.

    My three questions today are:

    1) I'm going to be purchasing a glucometer/strips today, I have the Accucheck Guide which our regular vet recommended on the way (coupon offer), a coupon for the FreeStyle Lite, and OneTouch - any reviews would be much appreciated.

    2) I've noticed Buddy's hind legs are weaker and our regular vet has said this is due to the diabetes and will reverse with time as its controlled. It freaks me out so much to see, luckily today it seems to be a bit better. Have your babies gone through the same thing and how long did it take to reverse?

    3) Buddy has been having soft but formed stools and peeing regularly, but this morning he had a bit of diarrhea followed by some vomiting. I decreased his morning feeding to 80ml to take it easy on his stomach, and he tolerated it fine until about 3 hours later where he threw some of it up. Not all of it, and is otherwise bright, active, and happy so I'm wondering what the heck is going on. Called the ER vet, Dr. Williamson who we liked, to see if we can get more Cerenia, and my holistic vet recommended some Arsenicum that Buddy has responded to well in the past with tummy issues.

    Your thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I'm losing my mind and have developed slight agoraphobia now. (Also, I've been documenting Buddy's journey here for anyone interested in more of the full ER backstory.)

    (Also, also, I forgot to give my own name apparently - it's Nora :))
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Oh my you and Buddy have been through the wringer havent you? I would be losing my mind too! How great that you were able to raise funds for Buddy's care.
    I want to WELCOME you to FDMB and while Buddy has other issues there are folks here that can help you with his diabetes.
    Many of our members have cats with multiple issues so I know they can help you a bit with answers.

    Are you ok with sharing your name with us? You HAVE found the best place to help Buddy. I'm so glad you found us!
    Hang on for more replies as people are probably helping others. OK? It may take a while but you WILL get responses.

    The only thing I would be able to add, would be Buddy's legs are probably suffering from Neuropathy. That will clear up once Buddy's BG's get under control. There is a product that CAN help. I used it when Trouble had neuropathy and it did work well. It is called Mythel B-12. There are other names that manufacturers sell it under. I cant remember them at the moment. But thats the great thing about FDMB. Somebody will chime in with other product names.
    Hang in there. ;)
    jeanne
     
  3. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Thanks for that, I'll be sure to look into it! And woops, a name would be good hey. Mine is Nora :)
     
  4. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
  5. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Welcome, Nora. Waving to you from Ontario.

    I'm tagging
    @Wendy&Neko
    for you. She is in BC and has had experience with heart problems.

    Rushing a bit because I have a lot of work in front of me and am slowly recovering from two bouts of pancreatitis.

    As regards the glucometer, get the FreeStyle Lite and save some money. I believe they are the cheapest strips of the three. Did you mean AlphaTrak, not Accucheck? AlpaTrak is a specific to animals glucometer and the strips are crazy expensive. Even FreeStyle Lite strips are not cheap in Canada. You can use any PC points that you or a generous friend have accumulated to buy strips at Shoppers Drug Mart.
    There is one meter in Canada that has inexpensive strips. It is called Bravo. The downside is that you cannot just buy strips at your nearest drugstore. You have to order them online. This meter is useless if you run out of strips during a hypoglycemic event and would send you driving like a madwoman to the nearest vet. Also, the meter takes a larger (twice as large) drop of blood as the FreeStyle Lite.

    A bit more soonish …
     
  6. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    DKA = not enough food, not enough insulin, and something else going on – probably the pancreatitis. Ask your vet about ondanestran for the nausea. It is important that Buddy keeps down food, especially if fluids are verbotten.

    00s – a lot of the members in this forum are in the US of A which uses 00s rather than World numbers. Just multiply your numbers by 18. For example, a reading of 7.0 (7.0 x 18 = 126)

    Methycobalamin – this will help Buddy's back legs over the long haul. Hard to get some in Canada with no sugar added. Some people order this one which ships to Canada for $10US: https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-60-capsules-5?ta=b12&t=b12

    Over the long haul, Lantus is likely to a better insulin for Buddy than Caninsulin.

    Caninsulin was developed for dogs and drops a cat fast during the first part of a cycle. The good thing about using Caninsulin in the ER is that it is an in-and-out insulin. It does not build up a depot. Which brings me to …

    Lantus. The reason why Lantus did not work at the vet's is that Lantus is a depot insulin. It takes time to get up to full strength (depot). Up to 5 days to build the depot. The body puts by a bit of Lantus each time until a depot is built. Lantus is one of the more gentler insulins. Cats tolerate it very well. And it is incredibly cheap in Canada compared to other countries. I'm sure other, more experienced members will chime in.

    Also tagging
    @AmandaE
    who lives in Alberta for you. She may know where to get the necessary stuff cheaper.

    Sorry to be so short with the information. I'm still not back on my feet and not posting much. And I have a bowl of bread dough that needs to be punched down in the kitchen.
     
  7. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Hi Nora and Buddy and welcome!

    I can relate so well to everything you’re going through and it sounds like Buddy and Minnie have a lot in common. I’m actually picking her up from the hospital today after a series of events that include IBD and/or lymphoma (waiting on biopsy results), pneumonia, cardiac arrest and of course she’s diabetic. I’m also tube feeding her. I do events so I’m also unemployed and I just charged everything on this Us card for vet bills that gives you 1 year to pay off without interest. Saying all that so you know I get it and my heart goes out to you both! He seems like a warrior like my baby girl and we have to give them every change we can to pull through!

    I have a few thoughts. First, I agree with Jean what you describe is neuropathy. Minnie had it really bad to the point she couldn’t use the litter box or walk more than a few steps without having to rest. It was heartbreaking to watch, but once the diabetes was regulated she recovered pretty fast. In 3 months she was 90% better. B12 methyl is a huge help as JT mentioned. I’m not sure where to get in in Canada. Here it’s also called zobaline and we can order online but it’s a bit expensive. There’s a cheaper version from a store called vitacost that comes in capsules and works just as well. You just have to make sure there are no sweeteners like xylithol added because that’s harmful to cats. Anyway, maybe check out vitacost to see if it ships to Canada? Unless the Canadian folks here know of a different option. Also it’s worth mentioning that you won’t see any improvement until the diabetes is under control even if you start him on b12 now. But Minnie is living proof they do recover even though one vet told me she wouldn’t and another said at the most she’d recover 30%. It also goes to show vets don’t know what they’re talking about and it brings me to my next point.

    Caninsulin was designed for dogs and the name comes from canine. I’d ask more details about what they mean he didn’t react well to Lantus because it does take over a week for Lantus to start to really work and you have to play with the dosages a lot so how much time on it did they give him? Caninsulin is fast acting as opposed to Lantus which is longlasting and works best for cats who are grazers and don’t eat two meals a day only. Caninsulin is much cheaper so maybe ask if that’s why they recommended. The good news is Lantus is much cheaper in Canada then here!

    What is the food you’re blending and feeding him via the tube right now?

    anyway, hang on for the Canadian troops to chime in and I’m so glad you found us!! :bighug:
     
  8. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You guys are so good! :bighug:
     
  9. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    You make me blush Jean :kiss:
     
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  10. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Btw Nora, Methycobalamin and b12 methyl are the same thing so @Red & Rover (GA) and I are talking about the same supplement and the same website. Great minds! :D
     
  11. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Nora I am so sorry to hear about what you and Buddy are going through, he is such a cutie. Wishing you and Buddy all the best. If you go to the vitacost site you will see they are giving 20% off for first time buyers Alot of members use this , I use it myself you can buy it on line from Vitacost
    Vitacost Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules
    It's 17.99 just be sure this is the one you buy
    The only difference is the Zobaline has 200 mcgs of folic acid
    So I buy the folic acid at the supermarket and crush it up and add it to the B-12
    If you can't find the 200 mcg get the 400 mcg and cut it in half
    The Vitacost brand is a capsule so just open it and pour the powder on the wet food
    Has no taste, no need to crush it up
    The Zobaline is 33.99 for 60 pills, too expensive
    I saw a big improvement I'd say 3 months, could be sooner

    Vitacost Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules

    • SKU #: 835003001804
    • Shipping Weight: 0.23 lb
    • Servings: 100
    [​IMG]
     
  12. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    BTW Nora the Methyl B12 comes in tablet form. I use to crush one tablet up and sprinkle it on Troubles food ...every meal. No over dosing as they pee out any extra in their systems.;)
     
  13. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    hey Jeanne, I like the vitacost better for not only the price, but just open the capsule and just sprinkle it on the food, no crushing up a pill, have a good weekend Jeanne:cat:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  14. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    HA! Back when I was buying it all you could get were tablets...yes I is old. :p
     
  15. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Oh stop you are not old, they say you are as young as you feel
    I didn't mean to type Jeanbe
     
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  16. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    lol no problem I've been called way worse. :p
     
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  17. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    :cat:
     
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  18. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    When looking for a glucometer, look for one that takes the smallest drop of blood, and has the cheapest cost of test strips. People here have used the Freestyle as well as the Accucheck. The Onetouch is a good meter, but takes a larger drop of blood. You can sometimes find good prices on strips on Ebay.

    A couple resources for you, Petcard and TailsofHelp. They might be help with the financing.

    On our Health Links forum are lots of good posts, specifically, take a look at the A Primer On Pancreatitis. You definitely want to keep on the Cerenia or try ondansetron for his inappetance, probably caused by nausea.

    My Neko had heart conditions, the pimobendin, also called Vetmedin helped a lot. Depending on what form it's given in, it can be foul tasting. You may need gel caps to hide it. Your vet is right, no subq fluids. Add more liquid to the food so he gets fluids orally.

    The others are right about Caninsulin, it's not the best insulin for cats. But for now, lets get him stable and you blood testing his sugars first.
     
  19. Bear and Julie

    Bear and Julie Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2020
     
  20. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Oh! Also, that makes a ton of sense with Lantus! I think because they wanted his glucose down more quickly since it was SO high, that's why they switched it.
     
  21. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I second ondansetron. It’s worked better for Minnie than Cerenia. It’s a human drug so you can get it at any pharmacy but I get better deals at the pet pharmacies online
     
  22. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Woah, I typed out a whole big response to everyone, any idea where it went/how to get it back? I’m a little stressed and really don’t want to type it all out again.
     
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  23. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Just logged in on my computer and my response is also gone here. Super irritating. It said it needed to be approved by a moderator which, since I'm new, I don't know why. In the future I'd hope moderators reach out before just deleting responses as it does take quite a bit of time away from our babies to sit down and type this. Sorry, I'm really having a hard time today and this was super frustrating.

    To sum from that last long post that has disappeared: thank you all for your input, it is so so sooo appreciated! Will absolutely get some of that B12, his legs seem better today but it won't hurt to add in moving forward just in case.

    The food Buddy is on is called Hills Diet Urgent Care A/D.

    I purchased the FreeStyle Lite today and failed at my first test. I used the depth setting '2' on the lancing device to make sure it didn't go through little Bud's ear, and it worked, but it only provided a literal pinprick of blood that was nowhere near enough for the glucometer to read. I tried bending/squeezing Buddy's ear a bit and he really didn't like that.

    He hasn't vomited since the Arsenicum dose this afternoon and has tolerated his last 2 feedings well. Readings for glucose were 17.7 pre-shot and is sitting at 13.8 now. Poop is still very runny though - is this common when regulating glucose?

    I was debating giving a little bit of buprenorphine but my gut feeling has been to hold off if I can because I feel like he's been on a whole lot of pain meds since being hospitalized (fentanyl and buprenorphine while in hospital, buprenorphine out of hospital) and he did have a bout of hepatitis last year so I'm worried about his liver.

    He has been 'loafing' but doesn't seem upset or show discomfort when I palpate his abdomen and he's walking around fine, cuddling, and very alert. Still seems more himself than he has been ever since this started. He's allowed 3.7 of buprenorphine but I just gave him 1.5 to see if it makes a difference. I'm trying to keep in mind that that's just how he sits sometimes and not to read into it, but it's hard to not look at everything differently right now.
     
  24. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Ondansetron in Canada is VERY expensive, just be warned. You definitely want the generic.

    Here are some tips on doing blood testing, including videos. Some people free hand the poke (I did) instead of using the lancet. It's personal preference. Make sure you warm the ear first, and have larger gauge lancets, around size 26.

    Runny poop can be a symptom of pancreatitis, and also when introducing new food, not so much when starting insulin.

    Buprenorphine at the vet hospital would probably wear off in 24 hours, meatloafing sounds like some pain. Maybe reduce the dose? Bonus, it can be constipating and help that other problem. ;)
    That's a system thing that sometimes happens for new people, sorry - we don't delete responses unless there's something objectionable in it.
     
  25. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Mods dont just delete(believe me i know lol) they read weigh the rules Vs what is written. You are not alone some of the other new people are having trouble posting as well. Its VERY frustrating to type out a novel then have it disappear. But glitches are just that...frustrating.
     
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  26. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Thanks guys, good to know. Sorry I was a little salty, I was so exhausted. And thanks again for all your help ❤️
     
  27. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    My tip is always copy it all before hitting the post button that way you can paste it again if needed. Too many online mishaps have taught me that ha!

    Not to want to add meds, but metronidazole helps regulate the poop. Also are you giving him probiotics to fight all the other meds he’s on? Some folks here swear by S Boulardii especially when it comes to regulating the stool. I started Minnie on its and I think it did help but it takes a few weeks to see the benefits.

    For testing and pricking the ear I also do it free hand I like being able to judge the pressure I’m applying. Warming the ear is key I will sometimes overwarm it until I can feel the ear warm to the touch. I don’t mean lukewarm, I mean warm. Then the blood comes out super easy and you may even get more then you need. It could also be that you need to give the ears time to learn to bleed so there’s that. I do alway try to milk the ear to see if I can get more out like gently popping a pimple. Sometimes that helps but sometimes I have to prick the same spot again. It sucks but it does happen.

    keep it up because it will all just get easier!! :bighug:
     
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  28. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    I totally just did that with my last post hahah.

    Are loose stools sometimes common when regulating then? I assumed it was the pancreatitis so that makes me feel a bit better. Will ask the vet for metro tomorrow along with the other anti nausea meds. I was told to stop the buprenorphine today and see how he does which makes me anxious because cats are SO good at hiding pain and I don’t want his pancreas to get more upset by being in pain.

    Will try the hand pricking and testing attempt number two today. Happy to see him out and about in the garden, most active he’s been since coming home despite stagnant numbers at 13mmol/L today.
     
  29. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Salty is acceptable here :p
     
  30. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I think the lose stool for Minnie is more related to the IBD I don’t think it’s common of diabetes so I’d guess it’s a residue of the pancreatitis he had. You can also ask for an apetite stimulant but it may be too many things all at once for him so see what the vet says. I’d add the probiotics to counter act all the antibiotics in his system and make sure he’s got healthy bacteria in his gut

    I know I felt the same about seeing Minnie out and about today :bighug:
     
  31. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    :p
     
  32. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Hi Nora!

    I’m so sorry to hear about what a traumatic experience you had with little buddy. FDMB is such an amazing place, a total life saver... glad you’re here :)

    I actually started using an American blood glucosometer called ‘one drop’ about 4 months ago. It is an online subscription company that is much cheaper than any monitor you can get in Canada and you can subscribe for an ‘unlimited’ strip option where you pay for 3 months at a time and can order strips in batches up to 300 strips an unlimited amount of times in those three months. It definitely turns out to be cheaper than freestyle strips, (One drop = ~160USD/3month unlimited strips) which in my experience are around $ 79.99 At shoppers in Alberta. I will say though: I really loved the freestyle lite, it requires very little blood, is cheaper than other Canadian monitors and tests quickly! For your general idea of costs, I usually go through about 50 strips a week. Although of course everyone is different and tests the amount that they’re most comfortable with.

    One other thought on cost savings (don’t think less of me) if you have someone close to you with diabetes... you could ask if they would be comfortable getting strips for you for free.... then you could just get the same monitor as them.

    Shoppers was my cheapest store for lancets strips and syringes but I don’t have access to Costco... if you have one it might be worth looking there. Also if you stick with caninsulin, I think you’ll be stuck getting syringes from the vet Since it is a 40u insulin, which is another reason I would consider bringing up Lantus to your vet again (if you want)

    my mowgli also started on caninsulin and it just didn’t work for him. I really recommend Lantus because you can literally buy it over the counter in Canada, and it costs about $110 for 5 pens (5 pens lasted a full year for mowgli but every cat is different) I think the other members are right that the vet didn’t see good results from Lantus in Buddy because the Lantus depot needs a few days at a consistent dose in order to work properly.

    I know this information is so overwhelming but the best thing is that now you know what’s wrong with Buddy and you can take steps to get him better. He’s so lucky to have you!

    PS if you end up going with one drop do NOT mention it’s for a cat ;)
     

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