new member DOSING question Hunter 182 PMPS and low mid #s

[JENNof2]

Seeking advice on dosing...

we are dosing at 1.5 after meals, and feeding 2 small snacks between doses as suggested.
last nights PMPS was 182 and yet the morning was so much higher- 457 again!

should we not have dosed last night? have a call into vet to confirm a no shot value and based on prior feedback from here, if ns, the amps probably will be higher? a little confused here. what are we doing right, and what do we need to do differently?

here is the link to previous thread, including HUnters spreadsheet

thank you very much

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-hunter-10-28-amps-457.270181/#post-3012261

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

In your previous post I'm coping what @Bron and Sheba (GA) explained , maybe it will answer your question but I will also tag a prozinc user for you at the end
I see that you were advised to reduce the dose to 1.5 units of Prozinc.I would stay at that dose for now.
Are you able to get any tests in during the pm cycles. Even a before bed test would be helpful. The pm cycle is just as important as the am cycle. It is possible Hunter is dropping lower overnight and is bouncing back up higher at AMPS. It is possible Hunter is also bouncing from the lower numbers (the blue BGs in the am cycles) as his body is now used to higher numbers. If you can get more tests in the pm cycle it will tell us more.
Here is an explanation about bouncing fromThe Basics:

• Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

It is only very early days yet for Hunter and his body needs to get used to the insulin which is a hormone.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Seeking advice on dosing...

we are dosing at 1.5 after meals, and feeding 2 small snacks between doses as suggested.
last nights PMPS was 182 and yet the morning was so much higher- 457 again!

should we not have dosed last night? have a call into vet to confirm a no shot value and based on prior feedback from here, if ns, the amps probably will be higher? a little confused here. what are we doing right, and what do we need to do differently?

here is the link to previous thread, including HUnters spreadsheet

thank you very much

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-hunter-10-28-amps-457.270181/#post-3012261

@FrostD

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

last nights PMPS was 182 and yet the morning was so much higher- 457 again!

should we not have dosed last night?

You were right to give insulin last night ,it would have been good to get another test in after that to see if Hunter dropped any lower
It's important to get some tests in after PMPS to see how the insulin is working. Right now you are only seeing half the picture

Have you looked at the two dosing methods for Prozinc they will let you know when you need to increase or decrease the dose
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

 

[FrostD]

The 1.5U is dropping him quite a bit, I suspect too low last night. Until you can get some midcycle tests in - especially when you're shooting a lower preshot - consider reducing to 1-1.25U. He nearly earned a reduction today, and he started in the 400s. Quite a drop.

As for the 182, I'd have recommended a smaller dose based on your ability to monitor. Something like 0.25-0.5U.

 

[JENNof2]

The 1.5U is dropping him quite a bit, I suspect too low last night. Until you can get some midcycle tests in - especially when you're shooting a lower preshot - consider reducing to 1-1.25U. He nearly earned a reduction today, and he started in the 400s. Quite a drop.

As for the 182, I'd have recommended a smaller dose based on your ability to monitor. Something like 0.25-0.5U.

ty for your help. questions: are you suggesting reducing to 1-1.25 in general, and only give .5 when there is a lower preshot? is that customary to give only a small amount and at what range is considered a lower preshot for this purpose?

also, is a reduction when he is under 100? not afraid to ask the dumb questions here, i am very new to this.

 

[FrostD]

ty for your help. questions: are you suggesting reducing to 1-1.25 in general, and only give .5 when there is a lower preshot? is that customary to give only a small amount and at what range is considered a lower preshot for this purpose?

also, is a reduction when he is under 100? not afraid to ask the dumb questions here, i am very new to this.

Yes I am suggesting reduce your dose overall to 1-1.25U.

And yes, when you get a lower than usual preshot I am suggesting a reduced or "token" dose as we call it - usually 10-50% of the normal dose depending on what the preshot is. Eventually the goal is to be able to shoot a consistent dose for any number above 200, but at the moment we don't have enough data to know if the dose is safe to do that. He's reacting pretty drastically to even 1.5U.

So my recommendation is - and this is only until you get more data - above 300, give full dose and get whatever midcycle tests you can. 200-299, give roughly half dose and be sure to get a midcycle test somewhere around +5 when able. 150-199 try 0.25U if you can get another few tests after giving the shot... otherwise I'd lean towards a skip.

Any time he goes below 90 is a reduction for now. Normally we wait to actually get a test that confirms they went below 90, but in this case we are still trying to get to a good dose... so I am using my experience reading spreadsheets and making inferences that she did go below 90, especially with the lower preshots.

Give the new doses a few days then tag me so I can take a look. And please do tag me if you have any questions (especially if you start a new post at some point). I have quite a bit going on at the moment and don't want you to fall through the cracks, so tags are always best.

 

[JENNof2]

You were right to give insulin last night ,it would have been good to get another test in after that to see if Hunter dropped any lower
It's important to get some tests in after PMPS to see how the insulin is working. Right now you are only seeing half the picture

Have you looked at the two dosing methods for Prozinc they will let you know when you need to increase or decrease the dose
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

Yes I am suggesting reduce your dose overall to 1-1.25U.

And yes, when you get a lower than usual preshot I am suggesting a reduced or "token" dose as we call it - usually 10-50% of the normal dose depending on what the preshot is. Eventually the goal is to be able to shoot a consistent dose for any number above 200, but at the moment we don't have enough data to know if the dose is safe to do that. He's reacting pretty drastically to even 1.5U.

So my recommendation is - and this is only until you get more data - above 300, give full dose and get whatever midcycle tests you can. 200-299, give roughly half dose and be sure to get a midcycle test somewhere around +5 when able. 150-199 try 0.25U if you can get another few tests after giving the shot... otherwise I'd lean towards a skip.

Any time he goes below 90 is a reduction for now. Normally we wait to actually get a test that confirms they went below 90, but in this case we are still trying to get to a good dose... so I am using my experience reading spreadsheets and making inferences that she did go below 90, especially with the lower preshots.

Give the new doses a few days then tag me so I can take a look. And please do tag me if you have any questions (especially if you start a new post at some point). I have quite a bit going on at the moment and don't want you to fall through the cracks, so tags are always best.

ty so much. saw this too late to drop to 1.25 this AM, but will do that at PM and stay there for a few days. feeding small snack at +2 and +5, and will get reading at +5 prefeed. thank you also for the guidance on lower doses at low ps values. much appreciated