? New Member Please Help!

[Nancy S]

I am brand new to this forum. I have a cherished cat,my favorite cat EVER, KittyLou who was diagnosed with both hyperthyroid and diabetes on June 1. She had received a heavy dose of Depo Medrol in early may for a small rodent ulcer on her lip. Her symptoms began shortly after the shot. On June 9, KittyLou began with Basaglar 1.5 units, and increased to 2 units on June 23 after her first glucose curve at the vets. All was going pretty well, except I was not yet confident about testing. I started testing intermittently on the 4th of July. All was still going pretty well, although KittyLou was not regulated yet. The bad thing is, no matter how hard I have tried, Lou will only eat dry food. When diagnosed, she was switched to Purina DM dry. On July 14, I got the bright idea of switching to Dr. Elseys Chicken Dry food which is supposed to be a low carb dry food. (I went from an 18% carb food down to a 4% carb food, as I understand it). After the food switch, the BG went really high (506 AM preshot), but started yo yo ing. Lou had at least 2 days of over 400 point spread between the high and low for the day. I made the mistake of bouncing around with the insulin, trying to react to the high and lows. I am in panic mode now.
I have a spreadsheet of all of this. Today, I am giving her 1.5 units twice a day ( and have been at this dose since the last vet visit on July 20). Today she is over 500 at every reading.
I have no idea if I am giving her too much insulin or too little. I just want to cry because I am not doing right by her and I dont know what to do.
Who can help me interpret these numbers and give me hope?

 

[Nancy S]

I changed my cats food to low carb dry food (she won’t eat wet) and her numbers went way up, did huge peaks and valleys for a few days and now leveled off in the 500’s . This is so discouraging. How do I tell if it’s too much or too little? Is anyone else’s cat doing this?

 

[JaxBenji]

Hi! Welcome Cute picture of KittyLou Just linking to your post on health since that had some background - link.

Sounds like you are testing BG? Great job Can you plug any data you have into the FDMB spreadsheet? It would also be super helpful to fill out your signature so those that are comfortable advising on dosing have a lot of the key information already. Information for the spreadsheet and signature are both found in the New? How You Can Help Us Help You! document (click on the blue writing for the link).

Once you have that set up, more experienced folks may be able to help guide you. Have you read through the Dosing Methods here? Those providing help will also ask which method you are following.

Hang in there

 

[tiffmaxee]

Welcome. In order to help you we need you to set up a signature and a spreadsheet. How old is Lou? One of my cats has had EGC as well. Having already had a diabetic cat neither my vet or I were willing to risk that especially with her being just one year old. A complete protein change to a novel protein has helped. You might want to try that. Chicken s a likely cause which means you won’t be able to feed Dr. Elsey’s as their other dry is salmon but it too is made with fish. Perhaps they have more variety now. If you switch to canned or raw since the diabetes is very new you just might succeed in an early remission. No guarantees of course.

Since you are feeding dry food you will follow our SLGS method if you follow one of ours. Your cat is likely bouncing from the food switch. Read the stickies on the LLB FORUM. Lots of great info there.

 

[Librarianista]

Welcome.

I’m not a dosing expert - still fairly new myself. I recommend reading this post over on getting started:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Getting your signature set up with a link to your spreadsheet is going to be one of the most useful things you can do right now. Members base their recommendations on data and info we put there.

You are not alone! We are here to help each other.

 

[tiffmaxee]

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

 

[Nancy S]

Thank you so much for responding! Lou is acting pretty “normal” tonight. I will work of figuring out your spreadsheet link and signature in the morning. I realized today I was using my AlphaTrak2 meter incorrectly and wasted a lot of of those pricey little test strips with my errors not to mention my poor cats ears.! I still don’t know if I’m injecting the insulin correctly.
I hope this all gets better!
I also need to know if there are any links on this site on how hyperthyroid affects the diabetic regulation. Lou was diagnosed with both diabetes and hyperthyroid on June 1. She is supposed to get Iodine 131 treatment on Aug 31.
Also wondering if somehow the “rodent ulcer” on her lip could be related to all of this. She was the picture of health a couple of months ago. When it rains, it pours, I guess.

 

[tiffmaxee]

You don’t need a AT. Most of us use human meters. Our methods were done with human meters and the strips are so much cheaper. Many use a Relion from Walmart. I used to buy my strips on EBay. We have people who can set your spreadsheet up very quickly. Just ask and I will get someone.

I don’t think the rodent ulcer is at all related. It’s also referred to as eosinophilic granuloma complex. It’s a reaction to either a protein they eat or something in the environment. Google it.

 

[JaxBenji]

any links on this site on how hyperthyroid affects the diabetic regulation. Lou was diagnosed with both diabetes and hyperthyroid on June 1. She is supposed to get Iodine 131 treatment on Aug 31.

I'm not sure about links on FDMB (I did a quick search but didn't see anything specific) - with that said, I believe metabolic rate is higher with hyperthyroid so, in theory, once the thyroid is regulated then metabolic rate may lower and insulin may have longer duration...I'm no expert here but I think this is on the right track. If @Sue and Luci checks in, she can share about Luci having I-131 treatment and perhaps any resources she may have come across.

I still don’t know if I’m injecting the insulin correctly.

The link below may help - personally, I tented a little and then rolled so I could see the needle go in. And I always shot while Jax's head was in the food bowl. He didn't mind the shot but it was nice to have him distracted while I figured it out lol. You'll find out what works for you and Lou.

• Hometesting Links and Shooting Tips
• In the link above, it links to this page - Marje and Gracie's Testing and Shooting Tips which has pictures and video

And I too started with AT2 and quickly realized it was going to be too expensive to maintain so I switched to ReliOn Prime from Walmart - Walmart ships strips fast (and I have two Walmarts locally in case I ever ran low). If you switch, hide your AT2 from yourself and don't compare (there is no comparison or conversion between pet and human meters ).

 

[Nancy S]

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

I did the spreadsheet as per your instructions. I posted it in my signature. Is there a way for you to see if I did it correctly? or if its even there?
What else is supposed to be in the Signature? I am so overwhelmed right now that I am hoping on the help of others to get me through the technical things. Also, can you show me how to get some members, experienced in interpreting these glucose spreadsheets, to link to Lou's spreadsheet and help me figure it out. I have already changed vets 3 times (vet 1 gave her a 40 mg dose of Medrol for a rodent ulcer and started this whole ball rolling (downhill), vet 2 diagnosed Lou but sold me a bag of Purina DM and that was it, vet 3 educated me on all of this and started her on Basaglar). There is a FB group that I found first and they want me to cut her insulin. The doctor wants me to raise it to 2. I dont want to do any more harm to may baby. What should I do?

 

[tiffmaxee]

I can see the spreadsheet. Thanks. For the signature include your cats name, date of diagnosis, sex, what you are feeding, other health issues, insulin type, and SLGS because when eating dry food that is the method you will use if following ours. Add this and then start a new post o the lantus forum and I will join you there with things get and help. You have come to the right place and since this all started with a steroid we just might be able to get regulation quickly. What happened to Lou is why my vet and I worked hard to get my young one on a protein that would eliminate the EGC. I worry every day what I will do if it fails.

I’m going to look at your spreadsheet now.

 

[tiffmaxee]

You need to get at least one test after pmps. Cats often go low at night and Lantus is dosed based upon how low it takes him.Lantus also likes consistency so we need to find a dose you can shoot every cycle for 7 days unless there’s a drop under 90. If that happens you would reduce by .25.

 

[Nancy S]

You need to get at least one test after pmps. Cats often go low at night and Lantus is dosed based upon how low it takes him.Lantus also likes consistency so we need to find a dose you can shoot every cycle for 7 days unless there’s a drop under 90. If that happens you would reduce by .25.

I realized I messed up with the dosages when I saw the 521 on July 16 (after switching food). I am trying to settle in at 1.5 (the dosage that I used in the beginning of her diagnosis). I don't have a feel for if its too high or too low. Her numbers, as bad as they are, at least are lower than yesterday.

 

[Nancy S]

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

I followed the directions and posted the spreadsheet in my Signature. I lost the line where it should say the meter. When I try to insert SLGS, it wont save. its frustrating for me.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Give the dose time to settle. It’s very essential to get an amps and pmps every cycle and at least one other test.

 

[Librarianista]

I followed the directions and posted the spreadsheet in my Signature. I lost the line where it should say the meter. When I try to insert SLGS, it wont save. its frustrating for me.

The signature only allows 2 lines, but it doesn't count the second line until you hit "Enter", even if it drags on. So put all the info you need in one string, hit enter, and then keep the link to the spreadsheet.

 

[tiffmaxee]

I followed the directions and posted the spreadsheet in my Signature. I lost the line where it should say the meter. When I try to insert SLGS, it wont save. its frustrating for me.

@Bandit's Mom can help you. Don’t worry about the signature right now.
I think the chicken might be the cause of the EGC. Mocha is now eating venison. If you can try a novel protein it would be great. That should have been the first thing your vet suggested. You would only feed that one protein for a month. It just needs to be one he’s never eaten before.

Sorry Lou. You are a she.

 

[Nancy S]

@Bandit's Mom can help you. Don’t worry about the signature right now.
I think the chicken might be the cause of the EGC. Mocha is now eating venison. If you can try a novel protein it would be great. That should have been the first thing your vet suggested. You would only feed that one protein for a month. It just needs to be one he’s never eaten before.

Sorry Lou. You are a she.

 

[Nancy S]

I think KittyLous EGC may be environmental. It showed up as a rodent ulcer on her lip. She had back to back steroid shots in late 2019, early 2020 (just before Covid). The ulcer went away for over a year and I noticed it came back this May. So she had a third steroid shot. And here we are—now diabetic. Plus, the “Rodent ulcer” seems bigger. I tried the novel protein for a year. She ate quail for a year, until the diabetes. Her blood work shows high eosinophils also. It’s shocking to see how different she is from 2 months ago.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Mocha had high eosinophils when her lip erupted. I have switched her protein several times. Before I knew what was happening I was feeding a rotation of beef, chicken, turkey, and pork so ruined all. Then after a short time on duck I switched because it was so high in calories. Rabbit was too low and she got dermatitis. It may or may not have been the cause. I sometimes wonder if it’s environmental as well.

 

[Nancy S]

Hi! Welcome Cute picture of KittyLou Just linking to your post on health since that had some background - link.

Sounds like you are testing BG? Great job Can you plug any data you have into the FDMB spreadsheet? It would also be super helpful to fill out your signature so those that are comfortable advising on dosing have a lot of the key information already. Information for the spreadsheet and signature are both found in the New? How You Can Help Us Help You! document (click on the blue writing for the link).

Once you have that set up, more experienced folks may be able to help guide you. Have you read through the Dosing Methods here? Those providing help will also ask which method you are following.

Hang in there

I read through the Dosing Methods and printed them. Thank you. I have been messing up with her doses in order to avoid a hypo. Can you look at her spread sheet which I posted in the signature area and tell me what you think? or perhaps pass it on to someone who could look at it. Or tell me how to do it? I have learned a lot in the past two days of being on here, but still lack confidence in the decision making process. I think I have mastered the testing technique within the last two days, though. I am using Alpha Trak 2. Its working well since I figured out what I was doing wrong.
Thank you for your help!!!!!

 

[JaxBenji]

I read through the Dosing Methods and printed them. Thank you. I have been messing up with her doses in order to avoid a hypo. Can you look at her spread sheet which I posted in the signature area and tell me what you think? or perhaps pass it on to someone who could look at it. Or tell me how to do it? I have learned a lot in the past two days of being on here, but still lack confidence in the decision making process. I think I have mastered the testing technique within the last two days, though. I am using Alpha Trak 2. Its working well since I figured out what I was doing wrong.
Thank you for your help!!!!!

Hi! Good job on your signature and spreadsheet! In your signature, I think you meant "SLGS" (instead of SLGR) so I would correct that when you get a minute. And to get input, I'd create a new post for today (this message board is one post per day per kitty...but you don't have to post every day though you can (I did when I was new to get help)) - more info on that here - Making the Most of your Lantus, Basalgar, Levemir ISG Experience . Your title would be something like "07/23 KittyLou AMPS 532,+2 441,+4 458,+6 480 - Review SS Please" - when you create your post (or edit the title), there is a drop-down to the left and you can pick the "?" to help draw eyes. Then when you write your actual post, write the input you are looking for.

FWIW, since you are feeding dry (I think? The Dr. Elsey's Chicken is the dry version?) then you need to follow SLGS - you hold the dose for 7 days unless kitty goes <90 in which case you take an immediate 0.25 reduction.

Even on on SLGS, I'd try to get one test after your PMPS (a +2 or +3 can be a good indicator of the cycle to come).

Hope that helps a little bit - will try to keep an eye out for your new post and can help tag some folks for help if needed

 

[Nancy S]

Hi! Good job on your signature and spreadsheet! In your signature, I think you meant "SLGS" (instead of SLGR) so I would correct that when you get a minute. And to get input, I'd create a new post for today (this message board is one post per day per kitty...but you don't have to post every day though you can (I did when I was new to get help)) - more info on that here - Making the Most of your Lantus, Basalgar, Levemir ISG Experience . Your title would be something like "07/23 KittyLou AMPS 532,+2 441,+4 458,+6 480 - Review SS Please" - when you create your post (or edit the title), there is a drop-down to the left and you can pick the "?" to help draw eyes. Then when you write your actual post, write the input you are looking for.

FWIW, since you are feeding dry (I think? The Dr. Elsey's Chicken is the dry version?) then you need to follow SLGS - you hold the dose for 7 days unless kitty goes <90 in which case you take an immediate 0.25 reduction.

Even on on SLGS, I'd try to get one test after your PMPS (a +2 or +3 can be a good indicator of the cycle to come).

Hope that helps a little bit - will try to keep an eye out for your new post and can help tag some folks for help if needed

I posted the info you formatted. I thought I lost the first try. I hope I didn’t duplicate the post. I dread testing, only because it depresses me to get high numbers.

 

[Sue and Luci]

Hi Nancy, Just stopping by briefly - I'm sorry you're going through all this - but you're a real loving mama to do all this work to help your precious Lou! I know it's challenging having so many issues to deal with.

So, one thing I read in all your notes above is that she's going to get an I-131 in August - they'll want a fructosamine test prior to that and the hope is that kitty is 'regulated'...Luci was far from regulated in my mind, but they said her numbers were 'fine' for proceeding with the I-131.

The other thing I noticed prior to the procedure is that her numbers were all over the place - highs and lows...I couldn't seem to get her to level off in any area (like leveling in the 100's, 200's or 300's...she was bouncing around. That seemed to settle after the procedure...her eating improved immensely and she's gained weight. She was very skinny before and no matter what amount of food she ate, she never gained, and in fact the reason I took her in for testing is that she was losing so much weight.

As a long term diabetic, it's not my goal to get Luci into remission - just to make her life healthy, happy and comfortable. Which I feel we're doing pretty good. She's sassy and looks great for a kitty her age -12 - ...

So, try to relax a bit about the numbers you're getting on the tests...high numbers are just an indicator that her pancreas is really not doing anything at all. Follow the suggestions and comments you've already gotten from our wonderful experienced members who are on here every day helping so many people. Do as much reading as you can and try to follow the dosing methods as closely as you can - stay the course with your dose - don't change it based on pre-shot numbers - even though it's so tempting to try to react to that number, it's not the thing to do (unless of course, it's really really low...then of course you'll follow the what to do with pre-shot low numbers, it's a process)...but for now your worry is those high numbers - get yourself a cheaper meter from Walmart (a human meter works perfectly for kitties)...and test in the middle of the cycle as much as you can - which is when the insulin is at it's peak dose - so that's when you can hope to see much better numbers - even if only for a little while - and yes, that means getting a test in the middle of the night too, since that's another cycle. Hopefully you'll start to see some better numbers mid-cycle (nadir) and don't focus so much on the pre-shot numbers - those are typically the worst of the day since the insulin basically has stopped working by that time.

It takes time for the insulin to build up a 'depot' so that's how folks get to the point where they see nice low numbers at pre-shot times.

I hope some of what I've said makes sense - I promise if you stay with it, it'll all become very clear to you - it just takes time...it took me a long long time before I started to wrap my head around all of this - and it's challenging for vets also - they don't know everything there is to know about Feline Diabetes - because it's a complicated disease and requires a good bit of study and keeping up with new meds, literature, etc. - vets treat a lot of animals for a lot of different problems so unless you're seeing an endocrinologist it's not likely your vet will be of much help. The steroids aren't helping those high numbers - but many have managed FD even though steroids were in the picture - so hang in there...keep reading as many condos as you can - you'll be surprised about the number of people who are in the exact same boat as you and are figuring it out as they go - just like you...

You are not alone!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Hyperthyroid can influence blood glucose levels. Anything that effects the endocrine system, will effect BG numbers. The steroid treatment is one example of how Lou's numbers were influenced.

One quick observation -- Please get at least one test in addition to your PMPS during the PM cycle. Dosing with Basaglar is based on the lowest number in the cycle. Without PM tests, you're missing half of your data and could easily miss a dose reduction. In addition, many cats experience lower numbers at night.