Newbie on Health needs dose advice for tomorrow morning

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100973

 

Any help out there? If it's under 200 should I not give insulin in morning?

 

Welcome to the FDMB and more specifically, to Lantus Land!! You're definitely in the right place!! Our kitties didn't get "extra sweet" overnight, so go slow to start with. The absolute best thing you can do for Hardey is to get him off the dry food completely (I understand he was being treated for another condition, but if he's doing well, and you can get him off it completely, you may very well not need insulin at all!!) If you want to see how much difference just the diet change can do, look for posts (we call them condo's in here) from Missy & Kitty. Kitty has been 7 days without insulin and only got just a few days of insulin before dropping to normal numbers after changing to only wet. If Kitty continues to not need insulin for 14 days, we consider that a "diet controlled diabetic"...and we have a PARTY!! party_cat Here's today's condo for Missy & Kitty..you can look at the spreadsheet too! Missy & Kitty's condo

Test in the morning before you feed him. Make sure he hasn't eaten for at least 2 hours before testing so his readings aren't influenced by food. I think you might want to test and then just ask for dosing advice in the AM. Since you don't have a lot of testing yet, the members here will err on the side of keeping him SAFE everytime! He might not like it, but it's better to stall and not feed him while you're waiting for help.

Again, welcome to Lantus Land...We're all in this sugardance together, and the members here are so generous with their time and knowledge!!

Good luck to you both!

 

Thank you for the help. I'll test in the morning and then post. I know he'll have me up early. He's been waking me up about 3:00 looking for some food (even though it's in his dish - I think he forgets it's there). So I'll give him a bit if he wakes me up and then pick it up so he doesn't have anymore until we get up at 6:15 for testing/shot (if necessary).

 

Just tested. No food for 3 hours prior. 115 Assuming I shouldn't give shot. Am I correct?
Please tell me I can wait a few hours before testing again. It was NOT a good experience for Hardey this morning. He ate and flew under the bed. I may not see him for awhile. I hate this.

 

I think you can skip the shot this morning, but I have not read your post on the Main Health Forum, yet.

be right back

 

Ok. Thanks. My stomach is in knots. I can't imagine how Hardey feels.

 

There you are 115 the morning after a skipped shot is good.

I saw in your post in Health that you were asking about how much to feed Hardey and that your vet said one small can a day. I would feed a lot more than that, but it depends upon the cat. My cat J.D. is large but less active and he eats about 3 small cans a day. Some cats eat a lot more, and some less. Have you taken him off of dry, yet?

If he wants more food, feed him. Since he ate his breakfast, I would try to test again in about 4 hours to see if his pancreas kicked in and brought his numbers down. You could test again in 2 or 3 hours if you want.

I still use a 28 gauge lancet on J.D. even after many years. He has black ears, and I just test on the insides of the ears where there is less hair.

 

I know. It's tough in the beginning. Keep posting and we will keep helping you. It DOES get easier, I promise.

 

Hardey is a big boy too. He was 22 pounds at the vet last week (down from 23).

He is still on about 1/4 - 1/2 cup of dry to munch on during the day. It's science diet. I have weined him down from about 1 cup. I just checked and he seems full right now. Taking a nap after our traumatic morning. I'll give him more wet in a few hours.

 

Another question -
Since he has been on 2 units twice a day for a month, is it bad for him to not have any at all even with his numbers on the low side? Will it hurt his pancreas to stop "cold turkey"?

 

Good morning!!

no, it's much safer for Harley to be a little high today, than to shoot a low number when you don't have enough data to have an idea how he reacts to insulin, or how carb sensitive he is. Next time, don't feed until you do your Pre-shot tests (I use a little boiled chicken as a distraction/treat), and if he's low, don't feed....wait 30 minutes and retest. (It's called Stalling) That will help let us know if he's still dropping, or on his way up and possibly safe to go ahead and shoot

Just relax and ask a lot of questions. You might also spend some time reading the "Sticky's" at the top of the wall today. There's lots of good information, and as you read, you might have some additional questions we can help you with.

 

Thanks. I am such a wreck. I really don't know if I can do this. Hardey just looks at me like I'm a torturer. I wish I was better at the testing thing. I know I'm stressing him out. His ears look terrible.

 

While you're not shooting, back up some today...spend the day loving on him and rubbing his ears (no pokes). Reward him with a little chicken or sandwich meat. The more he can associate you "playing" with his ears as a good thing, the less it'll upset him when you do have to poke. There aren't a lot of pain receptors in the edges of the ears, so it shouldn't be terribly painful...It seems most cats just don't like their ears fooled with period.

Also, on his weight, is that his GOOD weight? He's a big cat, but is his "perfect" weight 22lbs (or more) or is he overweight? That can help determine how to treat him too

Time for me to test and shoot (if it's safe). See you again soon!!

(Would love to know what to call you, other than Hardey's mom!)

 

Try to relax. I know it's hard. We've all been in your shoes in the beginning.
Cats are very sensitive and he will feel your stress. So, try to relax and breathe. When you are testing him, pretend you are relaxed, that will help. And always offer him a treat and a "good boy" and some lovings after the test.
You will get better at this.

 

Thanks for the pep talk Chris and Dyanna. I'm trying to calm down, really I am.

Duh! My name is Mary Alice. That would help, huh? lol

He came out from under the bed and is now purring with me in bed. I know I need to do another test soon. It's been 2 hours, but I just can bring myself to do it yet. Can I wait until 4 hours or is that too long?

Hardey is overweight. We've tried for years to have him lose weight, but he's had health problems that required special food that hindered the diet. I think he should probably be a 15 - 18 pound cat. He has really big ears and big feet.

 

Since you did not give any insulin this morning, you could wait until the +4 to get a test.

Yes, having a bit more information in your signature (like your name, the insulin you are using, the meter you are using, your cats weight and age) are all useful for us to see.

Wow! Big boy is right.

The canned food may help him to lose some weight. We're not worrying about that at the moment. Just mentioning it.

Mary Alice. Think of yourself like an actress on the big screen. You need to fool Hardey into thinking you arer cool, calm and collected when you test. Put on a show for him and convince him you are not stressed. That will calm him down too.

 

While you're "relaxing" today (yeah, right...I remember when we first started...you always seem to be "On Alert") there are some good video's on youtube on how to test at home. Here's a good one using a cat with black ears (and there are many more to watch too) I would have sworn those kitties were drugged when China and I first started, but now she barely notices, so it can be done and we're here to help you all the way!!

Glucose testing at home

China was only 113 at AMPS, so I'm "stalling" 30 minutes to see if she's still dropping...and my other kitties aren't real happy with me "stalling" their food too

 

I'll update my signature more. Still figuring all this out. Lots of info here.
Thanks for the youtube. I'll take a look. Watched a few yesterday, which is when I decided I should be testing. It didn't look that hard, but I knew it couldn't be as easy as it looked.
Have to go buy more supplies today. The 10 lancets that came with the meter are about out. I've reused some of them, but when you have to stick 5 or 6 times, they don't stay sharp.
Hope you get to feed your kitties soon. They are going to be mad at you! lol

 

I think I might know what I'm doing wrong. I was aiming more for the flat part near the edge of the ear. Should I be aiming for the side more? That's kind of what it looks like in the video....

 

Welcome to Lantus Land!

It sounds like Hardey forgave you for the ear poke! One of the best ways to get any kitty to adjust to the poking is treats. Freeze dried chicken is very popular as a low carb treat. Feeding cooked chicken or anything that is zero carbs works fine. My guys are also fond of Wellness jerky-style treats. Any time you test, whether it's a successful test or not, Hardey gets a treat. You're getting him to associate the pokes with something he likes. You'll read about kitties that go running to their testing place and wait for a test because they know treats are involved.

Given where Hardey's numbers are sitting without insulin, I tend to think that 2u would cause his numbers to tank. It would be worse for his health if he were getting too much insulin.

I think if you could get Hardey off of the Science Diet dry food, you'd see even greener numbers. I'm not sure which Science Diet is for liver issues but their foods tend to be very high in carbs and made from poor ingredients. Is Hardey getting any supplements (e.g., Denamarin) for liver issues? Is there any way you can fully ween him off of the dry?

It also sounds like your vet is suggesting far less food than Hardey needs. There is a formula for calculating the number of calories a cat needs per day:

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70​

If 18 lbs is Hardey's ideal weight, he should be getting roughly 315 calories per day. The formula is generous so you may need to adjust the amount of food. You may also find that by putting Hardey on a canned food diet, he'll start to lose weight.

At this point, you don't have to be testing frequently. Since Hardey isn't getting any insulin, there's no worry about his numbers dropping too low. I'd suggest getting a test before or close to mid-cycle and one at around +9 (give or take).

 

I have to go out and get more lancets, so I'll pick up some good treats while I'm out. I've been giving him a Temptation treat (he loves them) when I am done testing, but considering how long it's taking me to test (and the amount of jabs), I think he deserves something better.

He is on Denamarin and Enulose. The Enulose goes right in his wet food, so he's good with that. The Denamarin is 3 times a week on an empty stomach. The vet is trying to get me something I can sprinkle on his food. I've been having trouble finding a time when he has an empty stomach since he is always hungry. Up until this week, he got the Denamarin with a pill pocket.

Thanks for the formula. I'll have to check the Friskies he's on and see how many calories it is. Working on getting off the dry, but I like to leave something down for him when I'm gone all day to work, just in case he gets hungry. Someone had suggested an automatic feeder. I have one, but need to test it to see if it works and if he'll use it.

His original numbers were in the 500s. If I keep not giving him the shot, will they go up that high again?

 

We don't know how high he will keep going up. That is why we will continue to help you and ask if you can get some more tests.

If he needs more insulin, we'll make sure he gets it. Probably a lower dose than the 2U he was getting.

 

Thanks Deb.

So grateful for all of you. I would have had a breakdown by now if I was trying this by myself.

Running to the store now for more lancets and good treats. Figuring I'll try another test at 11 or 12 (that would be 6 hours since test this am).

 

A test at +6 sounds good.

Hope you can find some pure protein yummy treats for your guy.

When you get a chance, would you go back to the very first post in this condo, click on the edit icon over towards the right and change the subject line to

7/28 Hardey AMBG 115

The AMBG is to alert others on the board that you did not give any insulin at that low number.

 

Those temptation treats are High Carb, so they're a no-no...that's been one of the hardest things for me to find....something I can safely use as a treat for China, as well as afford it. For awhile I was getting those small Buddig thin sliced meat packages....what I didn't use as a treat, I made into a sandwich for myself :lol:

Freeze dried chicken is used a lot...China didn't think much of it though, but that doesn't mean Hardey won't like it. Wilderness has some jerky treats that I think are low carb too (but harder to find if you don't have a Petco/PetsMart nearby) They can be ordered online though

You're going to have to learn to read labels, just like if you were buying food for a human child..any kinds of grain or soy are to be avoided. That doesn't necessarily mean expensive though! The Friskies pates at WalMart are inexpensive and on the "approved" food list, as are quite a lot of the other wet foods commonly available.

I need to find the link to the list again, but I'm sure someone will post it (if they haven't already)

Edited to add Dr. Pierson's Food chart link and link to good LC treats. On Dr. Lisa's food charts, you're looking for <10% carbs (the C column)

Dr. Lisa's food charts Low Carb Treat list

 

Food Chart link

Mary Alice, you have a number of new posts so please read all of them to see that you have not missed anything.

 

Hello.
I didn't see any one answer about where on the ear.....
Here's a pic....


I have even better success when I go just a smidge above the sweet spots on the picture , close to the edge....

 

Thanks for all the replies. On my way back from the store with freeze-dried chicken breast. We'll see if he likes that. I'll give it another try in an hour and I'll let you know. On my phone right now, so I can't change the subject line. I'll do it as soon as I get home.

 

Actually, you can't edit the subject line since you didn't start the thread.

How about when you come back from your shopping trip, you open a thread (we call them "condos") for Hardey. Like Deb noted, we use a format for subject lines so we can all keep an eye on the kitties' numbers.

Also, if you're using Pill Pockets, the allergy formula variety doesn't have corn syrup in them. You'll need to use the ones in the dog section. They stopped making the cat sized ones.

 

Will do. Starting a new thread now. Is there a way to link this one?

Figured it out and attached the old thread.