Newcomers Amy and Sabaay

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Sue and Oliver (GA), Nov 26, 2016.

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  1. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Amy sent me a pm with an introduction and her questions. I explained that dose advice couldn't be given privately and told her I'd repost for her here.

    Hello, me and my 10+ yr old neutered male tabby cat Sabaay (suh-bye) are new to this site. He has been dx diabetic for just over 2 months now. He currently receives Rx Prozin 1.5u BID (8:00am and 8:00pm) and has now been on a grain free dry food kibble diet for about the same time. He eats roughly 15-60 minutes prior to his injection. He started out at 20lbs, and is now 15lbs since starting the insulin at 1u, then bumping up to 1.5u, along with his grain free diet. His energy and fur coat has changed immensely, while appearing to look younger. We've done one glucose curve at home seeing I was a vet tech for 9yrs, and feel more than comfortable.... yet it doesn't make it any easier when it's your own cat and they fight it terribly with stress and confusion. We've attempted another curve and it didn't get completed due him being in too high of stress. It's now been about two months since his last curve, where I've recently noticed major changes in him, again, yet different changes. He's exhibiting onset/ chronic neuropathy in his pelvic limbs (gradually within 2-5 days), lethargy, and drinking excessively. My doctor is aware of his high stress during his last glucose curves in the past and has suggested the fructosamine test, yet it was too costly at the time. Since his now onset neuropathy, I'm planning on doing his glucose curve in two days (Sunday) when I'm not working all day. I've been reading past posts recommending soft food over dry food, along with the fructosamine test being important. Also, posts mentioning breaking down a BG spreadsheet to determine future action/ changes. Any suggestions or more details would be greatly appreciated! Sabaay and myself thank you in advance!

    So Amy, welcome! I think you have latched onto two good ideas. One, grain free is not necessarily low carb. Any some of the dry low carb varieties raise big levels in some cats. Do you think he would switch to wet low carb? The food chart we use is here:
    http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

    And yes, a spreadsheet is invaluable so we can see his story at a glance when you need advice. And it's easy for you to see patterns and trends. Check out some other people's spreadsheets on the forum and see how they are doing. The instructions are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/. If you need help, we have some lovely people who can help you get it set up.
     
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  2. Amy E

    Amy E New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Thank you for your response Sue, and reposting my details. I'm still becoming familiarized with this site layout. I would never ask for dosing advice, and am only seeking suggestions with food diet suggestions, and what has helped with others?
    Thanks!
     
  3. Amy E

    Amy E New Member

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    Nov 25, 2016
    What is it about wet food vs dry food that helps?
    Has anyone else's cat exhibited hind limb neuropathy, and how did they recover?
     
  4. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    This vet's website explores the wet vs dry in wonderful detail: http://catinfo.org/ It's the carb and dehydration factor and that cats are not normally big water drinkers. People often add water to the wet food to make the pates more interesting and that can really help. And some cats are very carb sensitive so staying in the 8% carbs and below can really impact some cat's levels. Few dry brands are that low.

    You can certainly ask for dose advice here if you want to. Some people do in an emergency when their vet is not available. Some people feel that people here have more experience that their vet. We do see many more diabetic cats than the normal vet, and we have alternative dosing options to tailor for specific issues. Have you see the protocol and beginner's guide we put together? They are in my signature in blue.

    Neuropathy is quite common. Some people use Menthyl B12, but we think lower levels also help. Here is some info: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy
     
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  5. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Amy, for neuropathy a good source of MethylB12 is Zobaline
    https://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html
    It has Folic Acid to help the absorption of the B12 and is sugar free so perfect for diabetic cats. As Sue says a low carb canned food is best, but if you need a dry, the best is Young Again Mature Zero. It is only available online. It seems expensive but is very calorie dense so kitties don't need to eat as much. If you contact the company, they will send you a free sample.
    https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/zero-mature-health.html
     
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  6. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Hi Amy and welcome
    Have you been home testing at all? That really is the key to getting a good handle on how they are responding to the insulin. We test before each insulin shot, then around nadir when possible - It is bad at first, but it is quite shocking how well cats end up tolerating it. Hopefully, with the curve results tomorrow, we'll be able to see what the 1.5 units is doing. With his increasing thirst and weight loss, it sounds like his numbers are high, don't you think?
    What kind of food are you feeding? As Sue said, some of the grain free ones are high in carbs -as far as dry, Young again is the best - I feed Murphy small, limited amounts of Epigen90, which is ~ 5% carbs. There aren't too many dry options. Low carb wet is really the best.

    Again, welcome and we look forward to seeing the curve results tomorrow
     
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  7. Amy E

    Amy E New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Thank you everyone for your suggestions! It truly helps to talk directly to feline diabetic owners.
    Today we took two glucose samples after his morning feeding and insulin injection at 8:00am. 8:10am BG 451, 10:10am BG 392, followed with Vet visit at 11:30am. Discussed with doctor changing his diet to low carb wet food, as to when we will follow up with his next curve 10 days after the diet change to determine next step. He also received a B12 subcutaneous injection in hopes to help with the neuropathy. I questioned the vet regarding specific B12 options being beneficial, where she didn't respond with anything specific except their B12 shots once a week. She said it most likely won't help.
    Went to the pet store and discovered the Wellness food brand, turkey and duck mix, grain free, 5% carb, canned and dry. Not completely sure if the dry food is the same carb percentage, and will look into this it further.

    In what form is the Menthyl B12, and where do you get it from?
    I'm also vegan of 7yrs, and would love to find a food brand that expresses better treatment to the animals. Any suggestions? Please know I'm very open minded and don't preach regarding my diet beliefs.
    Thank you everyone for your details and source links!
     
  8. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2015
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  9. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    I'm not sure of the carb count in the Wellness Dry, but it is over the 10% or less that is recommended. @Carol & Murphy suggestions for dry are really the best options. Many flavors of canned wellness are fine, always check the labels for grain, potato, peas, tapioca and any other starches. Again, please make sure you are testing regularly when you make any change in foods.
     
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  10. Pati

    Pati Member

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    Nov 2, 2016
    Hi Amy. We are vegan also and have the same concerns as you as to the source of our pets' diet. Take a look at Tikicat for a canned food. They advertise that their chicken is free range and salmon wild caught. Ziwipeak is another commercial food to check out. We have fed our dogs for many years a home prepared diet using meat from White Oak Pastures (whiteoakpastures.com) White Oak is certified humane, pasture based, and has their own abattoirs. We have now moved Morris (a diabetic senior cat we adopted from animal control in Sept) to a home prepared diet. White Oak ships but you might be able to find small farmers in your area to source ingredients if you decide to go the fresh food, home prepared route eventually.
     
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