Nico. Yet another dose reduction 2/14: AMPS 59/79/97

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Emily Tuomey, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    And a big sigh. :bighug:
     
  3. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ I am so thankful that I decided to test a +7 for Nico just now. 62!! :woot: What the heck?! From 100 to 0 mph, I swear; there’s never any telling with him! 397 to 62. CRAZY. Was thinking I’d just test a PMPS but now I’m not sure if I should do one sooner. Thoughts??
     
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  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I'd do a test sooner than PMPS if this were my cat. Maybe a tiny teaspoon of LC food too.

    Speaking of cats, I have to go feed and take care of mine.
    p.s. Watching the beautiful sunset, which is right outside the window where I have my computer setup inside.
     
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  5. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I love sunsets. We get some good ones here too. Rainy today though.. one of those days where it feels much more like an extended night than day. Lol finish the sunset then tend to your kitties— I’ll get another test for him. I’m a little concerned because his nadir is usually +8ish. So weird for him to have that steep of a drop. Now I’m not sure what to expect going into the evening. Think Nico’s body is messing with us— haha!
     
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  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I think that Nico has cleared the bounce from last night.
    I also think he could use a dose reduction.
    I'd recommend 1.75U for a few cycles.
     
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  7. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +8, 61. Which is basically the same, but also pretty heavily food influenced— the +8 is, the +7 he hadn’t eaten since breakfast. Does that make sense?
     
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  8. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it makes sense.

    I'd give Nico another teaspoon of LC wet food, to keep his BG numbers steady.
     
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  9. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I gave him a little more just after his +8, so hopefully he’ll be okay for his evening shot.
     
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  10. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I'd be sure to get that +2, which can indicate which direction the BG level is headed.
    If you are up later, 1 more test before you go to sleep is a good idea.
     
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  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Consider lowering to 1.75
     
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  13. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    For sure was planning on a +2, which will be in about a half hour. Would like to see what that number is before setting any alarms for overnight. He’s probably fine, but just in case.

    If he stays consistently low overnight, has any readings close to or under 50, or is close to or under 140/150 in the morning for pre-shot, I think. I hate to reduce prematurely, they just trigger some horrible bounces for him.
     
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  14. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +2, 263. :blackeye: This disease beats the crap outta me..

    Plan up test again at midnight, I guess; make sure he isn’t falling. Take it from there. :coffee:
     
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  15. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Definitely was up all night for basically no reason.. better safe than sorry, I suppose. I guess I can be grateful that he’s neither terribly high, nor terribly low. Happy Friday!!

    (pm)+3: 263.
    (pm)+5: 156.
    (pm)+9: 224.
    AMPS: 324.
    +7: 160.
     
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  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Agreed!
     
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  17. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Whellllllllp, an interesting day indeed:

    AMPS: 378
    +7: 248
    +11.5: 95
    PMPS: 90
    +12.5: 90

    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ I’m gonna give him a token dose of 1.0u tonight.. Will monitor very closely this evening. MC/HC food ready, just in case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
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  18. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Just an update. Nico did great overnight (2.6.21)!

    PMPS: 95/90/90
    +1: 110
    +3: 66
    +6: 60
    +8: 49
    +8.5: 51
    AMPS: 237

    Now we rest. Zzzz....
     
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  19. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    YIKES!

    I recommend a dose reduction Em, especially since he went that low on just 1.0u.
     
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  20. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    :( We are seeing some high numbers at the moment today though. I know I’m not supposed to gage his dosage on the higher numbers, but rather the lower numbers— which clearly were low last night.. he’s 378 at +3. Should I just see how he does today?? How do I know to reduce tonight, if he needs it??
     
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  21. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Just keep doing what your doing. Those pink numbers were a bounce from the low day before
     
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  23. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Em, ANYTIME your cat drops below 50, that is a dose reduction. Even with the MPM dosing protocol you are using. Please reread what the MPM protocol says. Please.
    You need to monitor VERY closely when something like that happens and not become complacent.
    Nico could have been even lower than the 49 you caught with testing.
    You want to monitor for at least 2 hours after a low like that. More, if you've "carbed up" your cat to get him above 50. So 2 hours without food after your cat has dropped really low. You want the BG level to be at LEAST 90 AND rising before you stop testing. Depends on where in the 12 hour cycle you are too.

    Please, please, please, take a 0.25U dose reduction. You are "playing with matches, playing with fire" if you don't. We don't want Nico to have a symptomatic hypo and have seizures. I disagree with Janet about "keep doing what you are doing".

    In my opinion, Nico should not be getting more than 1.75U right now. Even if he has bounced, you need to reduce the dose.

    Sometimes, we have things we have to take care of for ourselves. I never even signed on to the message board on Sunday. Taking care of yet another snow storm and the aftermath. Monday too. Will have to do that again on Tuesday and Wednesday also, with more snow in the forecast. That all takes time and leaves me hurting and exhausted.
     
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  24. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink my apologies if my post from earlier in the day sounded pointed, it certainly wasn’t meant to be so, especially toward any one of you. (More so my [incredibly misplaced] anger toward insurance companies :mad: So please accept those, however late they may be; they are sincere.

    In the meantime, I intend to go back over the PZI dosing material, and Nico has been reduced to 1.75u as of a half hour ago (PMPS, 159). Goodnight, all. :bighug:
     
  25. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ Nico’s dropped over 200 points in around 2.5 hours. That seems fast. Thoughts? He did similar yesterday, then was okay until his PMPS. Please let me know, when/if you get the chance. Hope everyone is staying safe and warm— snow is headed for us tomorrow through Monday. Brr!
     
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  26. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I like that 109
     
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  27. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    This was written for Lantus insulin (and is a sticky in the Lantus ISG), but the same concepts apply to Prozinc.
    Sticky Don't Panic! or How to Handle Low Numbers

    Em, the point I was trying to make the other night is that we can't always be here when you might need us. So it behooves you to try and read all the sticky (pinned) posts that you can. "Knowledge is power."

    When in the cycle a low occurs is important too. If that 109 was at +1 or +2 or so, then it would be more of a concern. At +7 it's not as big of a concern. Won't hurt to get another test before the PMPS though.


     
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  28. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  29. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Nico received a token dose tonight. 0.75u. And, he will be monitored very closely overnight. Will anticipate a dose reduction to 1.5u tomorrow morning..

    PMPS:
    +12: 58.
    +12.5: 71.
    +13: 91.
     
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  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Well wow! Just wow on Nico and his BG levels last night.

    Remember when Nico was always in the black BG ranges, and we kept upping (increasing) the insulin dose, and increasing the dose quickly? Well now, he's headed in the opposite direction, down, down down. You will probably have a very bumpy ride for a while. I think that Nico's pancreas may be waking up and producing some insulin on it's own.

    He'll be bouncing up and down like a yo-yo for a while I think.

    I think you do want to reduce the dose to 1.5U for the next shot. That 58 BG you got last night isn't down into the "neon green reduce the dose zone" for the MPM protocol. But I think it was close enough that you should reduce.

    His nadir (lowest point in the cycle) seems to be moving later too. So a closer eye on what is happening with him is a good idea.

    Is his appetite good? I ask because sometimes a reduced appetite or a cat not wanting to eat can lead to low BG levels.
     
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  31. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess we had a LONG night; I’ll let Nico’s spreadsheet speak for itself. We have reduced his dose again. 1.5u given this morning. We shall see how he does today.. he definitely runs lower overnight. Mama Em is EXHAUSTED. Zzz!
     
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  32. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Yes, his appetite remains good. Not ravenous, but certainly still hungry all the time. Definitely not food avoidant.. :cat:
     
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  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Ok, good job last night. I can see why your exhausted.

    Good call on doing the dose reduction too. That should be his new dose for a while now, until his BG levels tell us otherwise.
     
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  34. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    So far so good. 1.5u given. PMPS, 307. It’s snowing now, and so peaceful. Looking forward to actually getting some sleep tonight, and it’s almost a 3 day weekend!!
     
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  35. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Almost exclusively pink since last night. Hoping this is the flat before the [bounce] break... pretty please!
    In other news, we are all set — cozy, warm, snacks for days, and good, furry company— for Snowpocalypse 2021.


    just started..
    upload_2021-2-12_14-13-38.jpeg
     
  36. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Come on Nico! Get out of those stinky pinkies!

    I think your snowpocalypse is headed our way later next week, 3 storms worth. As long as there is enough cat food and chocolate in the house, everything is copacetic. Cat food for Dancer, chocolate is for me. :joyful:
     
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  37. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  38. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    AGREED!!!! You’ll appreciate this— mmm!! upload_2021-2-12_19-27-36.jpeg
     
  39. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess starting to feel like we are neverrr getting out of the pinks (I know we will eventually, just being a bit dramatic about it tonight), still pink, UGH!

    AMPS: 360.
    +5: 252.
    PMPS: 329.

    Maybe by +3 he will turn downward. Hopefully!
     
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  40. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  41. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Good Golly!!! Good way to stop your heart on Valentines Day :eek:
     
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  42. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    RIGHT?! Out of the blue! upload_2021-2-14_8-36-0.jpeg
     
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  43. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Shelley & Jess now we’ve skyrocketed— 384 (tested twice, 384 & 398) +2 — why would that be??!! And, is he likely to go low closer to his nadir or do you think I can leave him be until PMPS tonight??
     
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  44. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    I imagine he went lime last night and is bouncing hard. You re-tested enough at PS and re-tested the 384 to know they're both good....but not sure I feel comfortable telling you to let it go until PMPS, he's been all over the map lately, and we know he can come down pretty quick when he's in the mood....02/09 he had a pink to green.
     
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  45. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Kicking myself big time for thinking he’d be fine overnight since he was in the 200s at +4. Hindsight really sucks sometimes.. Maybe I should test closer to his nadir too, like +7 or so? Then at least I have a mid to go by. Trying to reassure myself that I did the right thing by only giving him 1.0u this morning, but it’s the hardest when you know you shot low and now he’s super high. Sucks!
     
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  46. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    DO NOT ever second guess yourself when the main objective is to keep Nico safe - this is WAY MORE IMPORTANT than a cycle or two of high numbers.

    You did good Em.
     
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  47. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Thank you, Chelle. So hard when he goes so high and looks so miserable.. I just couldn’t bring myself to give him more than 1.0u this morning with a third and final test before food still less than 100. Just didn’t think it was smart. Now he’s bouncing, and the bounce may be lengthened because of that choice, but at this point it is what it is. I’ll get a +7ish in about 95 mins, and post that here. Than maybe we should move this convo to his new thread? Be back shortly!

    In other news, we are getting dumped on by the winter weather— we are under winter storm advisory and are expected to have a “thundersnow” tonight. Nico loves watching it. So cute. Otherwise he’s my lap kitty/snugglebug, never leaves my side (I think his sister is mad jealous, so she makes it a point to be right there too. “Tres Amigo/Amigas!”) upload_2021-2-14_13-23-46.jpeg
    This photo was yesterday though.
     
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  48. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    It could have very easily gone the other way and made him go too low and hypo. What you decided was smart. Very smart.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, that's one handsome boy you've got there!
     
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  49. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    he’s such a lover too. We were caught napping yesterday. So sweet.
    upload_2021-2-14_15-6-12.jpeg
     
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