Nico’s New Thread: 2.25: AMPS 309, +6 164, +11 91, PMPS 99/127, +3 305

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Emily Tuomey, Feb 14, 2021.

  1. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    You did do the right thing Emily.

    Yes, I do think that Nico should have another dose reduction. So new dose would be 1.25U.

    Wait out the bounce. Have you practiced your "thumb twiddling" skills lately? ;)

    p.s. How much snow did you get there in the Pacific Northwest?
     
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  3. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Shelley & Jess @Deb & Wink he’s now above 400.. 411, +7. Definitely not feeling the best, lots of water, lots of rest. I’m sad for him. I’m also now worried that he’s going incredibly low overnight and I’m sleeping through it. I think I might just have to get up and get a +6, 7, or 8 every night, just in case. I think you both have mentioned him kinda being all over the place at the moment, and he can flip at any moment— high or low. What are your thoughts on overnight testing for him??
     
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  4. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Still snowing. Expecting a “thundersnow” tonight which will be fun, if it happens. I’d say we have about 18” or so at this point. So pretty. upload_2021-2-14_15-19-25.jpeg
    (and I totally still have a Christmas tree up :joyful:)
     
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  5. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Vary the times. Try a +6 one night. If that seems lower than normal, than set your alarm for another test.

    You might want to see if you can get a +11 in the PM cycle. So 1 hour earlier than your normal AM pre-shot test time. So you might have to play it by ear, and see what the BG numbers are telling you during your PM cycle testing.

    p.s. I keep my holiday decorations up all year round these days. Been doing that for years. I figure why do we only have 1 day a year to celebrate certain events? Celebrate every day!

    Thundersnow is cool! Hope you don't have to clear all that snow by yourself. Can you even open your front door, to get outside?
     
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  6. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Haha I ventured out to take out the garbage and recycling this afternoon finally. I got out the door okay, but couldn’t get the bins open to put the garbage/recycle in. LOL!!! So.much.snow. I love being inside and watching it though. So far no thunder, but supposedly overnight, late. Love storms. PS. You rock for leaving your stuff up year-round. My grandmother used to do the same thing. I’m a Christmas baby (12.24) so it always felt like my holiday, and my tree is especially pretty this year so I’m leaving it. Makes me happy, and with all that’s happening in the world we could all use a little extra cheer.


    I’m planning on varying the times, so I get a more complete look at what’s going on. Tonight I’m trying for a +3 and a +7 and go from there. I need to curb this paranoia though, that something is going to happen overnight and I’m gonna somehow miss it. That it’s possible he may become sick and need me and I won’t know it. I may be in for a week of sleepless nights now, at least tomorrow is a holiday so I can rest a bit more later in the day. I can do a +11 too. We start our morning routine at +10, so it’s not like I’m losing any sleep by doing that. I’ll be back with some numbers. Goodnight, Deb.
     
  7. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    PMPS, 391.
    (pm) +3, 254.
    (pm) +6, 92.
    (pm) +7, 103.
    AMPS, 227.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  8. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Nico dropped low, but not too low. Not <50.
    Let's see how he does on this 1.25U reduced dose today.

    p.s. No thunder snow here. Just a little bit of freezing rain. More for tonight into tomorrow.
    Filling my bird feeders tonight for sure. Even though there won't be TONS of snow on top of them like you had with your trash can, the ice may freeze them shut.
     
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  9. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess Nico is absolutely breaking my heart tonight. I think his body is tired from all the bouncing. I know it’s part of the disease, but I wish I could take it for him. Tell me that this doesn’t absolutely break your heart.. upload_2021-2-15_19-56-36.jpeg
    I’m gonna snuggle him for a bit. 1.25u is a hard dose so far :(

    AMPS 227
    +3 327
    +8 253
    PMPS 356

    (Will get a +5 and +9 overnight too)
     
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  10. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +5 272
    +9 217
    AMPS 306
     
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  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    If Nico hasn't dropped back down to the blues/greens for nadir by tonight's cycle, 2/16/21, I think I'd increase his dose again back to 1.5U for the morning 2/17/21.

    That Nico picture is a heart breaker. :(
     
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  12. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    It really is.

    We had a better day today, but still not great. I plan on testing a +3 & +6, but fully anticipate the dose increase to 1.5u after his morning pre-shot. Sucks to feel like we “failed” though..

    AMPS 306
    +5 382
    PMPS 263
     
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  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Dose reductions don't always work with cats. So, you see that the lower dose isn't working, and take the dose back up again, to the last good dose that got your cat into lower numbers. There is even a term we use here for that - a failed reduction.

    We didn't fail. But we did observe that Nico wasn't feeling well and we saw that his BG numbers were running too high. So we adjusted what we are doing.

    No worries. We'll get him feeling better again.
     
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  14. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Praying for that for him. As a mama, it’s just so heart wrenching to watch him struggle and know you can’t do more for him except snuggle, and wait for the insulin to do its job. Hopefully he’ll do better overnight.. :blackeye:
     
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  15. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink ask and you shall receive... We’re on a BULLET TRAIN to Hypotown... +3.5, 59 (down from 263 at PMPS). YIKES. I gave him some LC food at +3.5, MC given at +4.. stable & rising at +4.5 & +5. Will retest in an hour. LC food left out for him, just in case. @Shelley & Jess if you’re up too??? :nailbiting:

    +3.5, 59
    +4, 41
    +4.5, 63
    +5, 70
    +6, 71
    +7, 126
    +9, 110
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  16. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Hey Em, you noted on your spreadsheet that you'd didn't see this coming, but have another look. What's the common denominator in the preceding cycles for your last four lime greens, (includes this one)?
     
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  17. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    He’s dropped 200 points in 2 hours. Does this warrant closer monitoring, or not really? (I did plan on getting a mid for him too either way..)

    AMPS, 593
    +2, 396
     
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  18. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    No idea.... :confused:
     
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  19. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +5, 239.

    As we get nearer to his nadir I think he will be alright.
     
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  20. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    (Sorry so late to reply after my 'read likes' earlier, work held me hostage today:()

    01/31, 02/06, 02/10, 02/16 The AM cycles before the PM limes he dropped at the end of each AM cycle. Look at the AM cycles for those days from start to finish, from one PS to the next PS. Follow the trend of the AM cycle and how it led to an active PM cycle. He didn't dip down at nadir and come back up, he dropped to the end of those AM cycles.

    This type of pattern is another one of those patterns to watch out for, like an active cycle after a string of yellows, it can be a good indicator of what the following cycle might bring.

    Make sense?
     
  21. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Whoa!!!!! Nico! Slow down please, your driving faster than the speed limit.

    Nico earned a dose reduction again, by dipping into those neon green BG levels last night.
     
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  22. Logan & Sandy

    Logan & Sandy Member

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    @Shelley & Jess I was looking at nicos' ss and your comments regarding 01/31, 02/06, 02/10, 02/16.. so basically if I understand this correctly... if Mr Nico runs high as he did those dates... then Em. can exxpect her cat to run low in the wee hours of the nite,. can any of this be prevented...? -- to help him stay more even?? or is this just part of the course ..??? thxx Sandy
     
  23. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    I'm looking at the downward trend of the cycle(s), not necessarily the high numbers. A kitty doesn't have to be in high numbers for a cycle to follow a downward trend all cycle, with no dip at nadir, no rise at the end.

    I wouldn't say Em can expect Nico to run low at night, more that this type of downward trend during one cycle may be an indicator or heads up that the following cycle might be an active one and a good idea to keep a closer eye on it. It's another 'tool in our toolbox' - spotting those patterns that the numbers create and how the cycles flow on our spreadsheets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  24. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    PMPS, 413. :oops:
     
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  25. Logan & Sandy

    Logan & Sandy Member

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    ****I guess its all about the overall pattern is what I'm gathering....
     
  26. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Looking for clues on your spreadsheet can help you make decisions. Some of those clues are the patterns that the flow of one cycle to the next cycle create.

    When planning your testing strategy for a cycle getting a +1,+2 and/or +3 (like Emily has been doing :)) is a good idea following a downward trending cycle.

    If contemplating a dose increase and you see a cycle behaving like this, trending down and he's due to break a bounce, hold off for one more cycle to be absolutely sure a dose increase is needed. In this instance, Nico's 02/16 PM cycle showed us that 1.25U is too much but it also could have showed us that 1.25U was just right.
     
  27. Logan & Sandy

    Logan & Sandy Member

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    @Shelley & Jess thx for that Shelley. good suggestion,and a good example and thing to know,
     
  28. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    We had a glimmer of hope this afternoon, but now it’s gone again. Dang it!

    AMPS, 371
    +6, 180
    +10, 249
     
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  29. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Glimmers of hope are important.

    I think that Nico is still bouncing from those low greens a couple of days ago.
     
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  30. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I was hoping he’d clear it today. Not yet, it seems.. hopefully soon!!
     
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  31. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  32. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Well darn! I'll join you. :arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh:

    Not a nice PMPS number, but I think Nico is bouncing from that blue 180 earlier today.

    How is Nico feeling?
     
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  33. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Sucks. That blue was kinda out of nowhere, a complete anomaly. Is what it is, I guess. I was praying it would stay... I’ll get one more test before bed just to make sure he’s still tending toward the higher numbers then call it a night. I have a screaming headache, but I did put up new art in my house tonight which makes me happy! Nico is okay, pretty low key today: upload_2021-2-19_21-22-16.jpeg
    LOL
     
  34. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Discouraging. AMPS, 519. :banghead:
     
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  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I hate to suggest this, but I think you need to increase the dose again.
    If Nico is in the yellows at PMPS, he might drop really low into the neon green BG ranges.
    So that would mean staying up (or setting an alarm) and testing and feeding the curve to bring his BG levels back into the higher green BG range.

    Not sure if you want to do that.

    Nico is looking pretty chill in that picture.:)
     
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  36. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I’m so sad he can’t hack the 1.25u, and keeps failing it. Back up we go.. I did do a little experimenting with his food and it’s direct correlation to his bg levels today, and it didn’t cause any difference really at all, so I know his high-high numbers aren’t food based or his diet. I’ll keep you posted about overnight.. he’s been pink all afternoon, so I don’t anticipate a yellow PMPS however.

    +5, 370
    +7, 367
     
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  37. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink :banghead::banghead::banghead: PMPS, 397. He’s up in the big boy shoes now, 1.5u— I gotta bust him outta Pinkalicious Prison!!! (I totally just coined that phrase :joyful:)
     
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  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I like it!

    Have a good night.
    Need to head off to sleep for myself.
     
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  39. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Sleep well!
     
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  40. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Well he hasn’t moved an inch in 2 hours. At least I’ll get some sleep tonight (though it’s a bit surprising to be honest).. hmmm

    PMPS 397
    +2 366
     
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  41. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink Literal NO CHANGE +2 to +6, exact.same.number. 366. WHAT THE HECK?!!

    AND STILLLLLL.... AMPS, 340. In the words of Ham Porter, “You’re killing me, Smalls!!” (Sandlot)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  42. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess does Nico seem stuck to you, in your experienced opinions?? He’s tested literally the same— with variation— since that black AMPS yesterday morning (2.20.21). Very strange; even when he’s flat there is more movement than this.. I’m gonna get another test for him in about 15-20 mins, I’ll post that here after. Just praying for some movement.. any movement!! :stop:
     
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  43. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  44. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Don't bang your head too hard just yet. It's only the 2nd cycle on the increased dose, might take these couple of cycles to get him moving again.

    Deb said this just a week or so ago:
    If the pancreas is pooped out again, we have to pick up the slack until it wakes up again.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I read this in the Lantus forum, thought it was pretty cute, might make you smile too: (Post #13) https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-8-346-increased-tonight.234063/#post-2618868
     
  45. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    It's usually a string of fairly steady yellow BG's that signal a bounce is getting ready to break.
    But maybe a string of pinks signals the same thing.
    Keeping paws crossed here that is the case with Nico.
     
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  46. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Do you think I should hold tight at 1.5u for him tonight?? Not sure why this is bothering me so much.. :blackeye:
     
  47. Logan & Sandy

    Logan & Sandy Member

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    i'm an amature at this.. but my vote is yes.. but don't take what i say as for certain Em. I'm as new at this as you are.
     
  48. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I'd keep him at the 1.5U dose for now Em.
     
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  49. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Ok. Thanks. I’ll be back in 2 hours with his PMPS, but I’m sure you’ll be in bed— have a lovely night!
     
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  50. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  51. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess UNSTUCK!! +8.5 overnight, 69. AMPS, 178.

    (Hindsight: I should’ve kept a closer eye overnight.. not sure what I missed at his nadir after catching a 66 close to +9.. dang it!)
     
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  52. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Oh Em, so happy for youz! :joyful:

    Now we know what a Pinkalicious Prison might mean for Nico! o_O

    I missed something last night too.:( My hip has been really bothering me, I've been resting a lot and haven't been testing as much, especially at night....I got up this morning, checked my meter to record our early-mid cycle test last night and it wasn't there. I swear I got a test last night. I can see it, it said 5.1 (92). Anyway, when I did get a test at +9 she was high for her 8.1 (146), she musta went low and was bouncing :(....so I fed and three hours later she was 4.7 (85) and three more hours she's still green 4.9 (88), feel bad but feeling good at the same time :confused: I musta been dreaming :facepalm:
     
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  53. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I totally know how that goes. I got up 3x to make sure I’d picked up his food for his pre-shot fast. LOL

    We are bouncing already.. right back to the 300s :banghead: 371 at +2. Dang it!
     
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  54. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Nico looks to me like one of those cats that doesn't see much movement in the BG level at +2. So the +2 is more likely the food bump happening.
    You might think about testing at +3 more often, instead of at +2.

    Nico, you are headed in the WRONG direction sir! Could your mom have given you a fur shot this morning, 2/22/21?

    p.s. Nice 69 last night! We need to see more of those greens please Nico.
     
  55. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I agree with you here. +3 or even +4 definitely give me more of a sense of where he’s going, especially with as late of a nadir as he has.

    Unfortunately no, zero chance it was a fur shot— I wish it was that easy of an explanation, or that I could reason an explanation at all.. BUT. We did get some “kitten” pâtés (Fancy Feast, so same brand as his usual diet is) that he’s been eating over the past few days.. several of the carb counter/chart links all claim they are the exact same carb content as his usual cans are, so I figured they were fine to give him. Now I’m thinking they aren’t/weren’t. So, I’m gonna feed him his normal pâtés for the next 2-3 cycles and see what happens. I figure that’s probably plenty long enough to see if that “kitten” food is an issue for him, and spiking his sugars. Any words of wisdom or experience on/with this @Deb & Wink or @Shelley & Jess?? Praying that maybe it’s that and that we aren’t, in fact, sliding wayyyyy backwards right now.

    ..nervous for his night tonight, he could be/go anywhere at this point..
     
  56. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    PMPS, 364.
    upload_2021-2-22_18-59-7.jpeg

    +4, 271.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    The kitten pates are ok carb wise. They do tend to be higher in calories, so if Nico needs to gain weight, that could be good for him to eat.

    Please get a +6 today. Because you shot lower than you are used to.
     
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  58. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Yes. I very much plan to. I’ll let you know how it goes. And thank you for the info on the kitten pate. Nico is at the very bottom of a healthy weight for him, so the vet encouraged trying to boost him just a tad, for some “just in case, wiggle room.” I don’t plan on using them long term, but good to know they probably aren’t effecting his numbers in the way I thought they might be.
     
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  59. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink he's totally fine. I had a sneaking suspicion he would be.. +6, 338. Stupidddddd pinkssss :banghead:
     
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  60. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    :(
     
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  61. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess Thoughts on dosing..? He seems to be developing a pattern of having a low AMPS then running really high throughout his daytime cycle, then running (somewhat) low overnight. Plan to see if it continues for the next cycle or two, but no chance he’s getting into something he shouldn’t be and I still haven’t reintroduced the kitten ff back into his diet.. weird.

    AMPS 185,
    +8 384,
    PMPS 414
    +4 334
    +8, 308
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  62. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    With those high blues at AM pre-shot times, he could be getting a longer duration. If so, you have to learn to shoot lower pre-shots.

    Same cats can have longer than 12 hours. Averages are 10-14 hours duration with Prozinc.

    Other idea is that Nico needs an increase again.
     
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  63. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I’m gonna increase him tonight. Again. :arghh: 1.75u.
     
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  64. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    So before you do that, would you please create a new thread for us? This one is getting long.
     
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  65. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I will do that in a bit. His +6 is 164. Should I take another at +8? Does this change this evening’s plans to increase??
     
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  66. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Let's give Nico 1 more cycle.
    Then maybe increase for the AM? 2/26/21

    +8 not necessary. Maybe a +11 if you are around.
     
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  67. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +11.5, 91
     
  68. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink
    +12, 99
    +12.5, 127

    I will get a +3 for him for starters and see how he does. Creating a new thread in the morning. Night!

    +3, 305
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  69. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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