Nutmeg on Caninsulin

[Nutmeg]

Well we got the results tonight. Nutmeg is on 2 units of caninsulin twice a day. I injected her at the vets for the 1st time today - scary but I feel much more positive about everything.

She has had 2 injections today and we already feel we notice a difference in her.

So far no dietary changes - we'll keep things as is for the moment.

 

[Steve & Jock]

Please start home testing blood sugar as soon as possible. Here's why.

Caninsulin has a dramatic action in cats. (See graphs at http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Caninsulin ) It can easily, within 4 to 5 hours, lower blood sugar from dangerously high, to dangerously low. It also doesn't last all that long, generally 8 to 10 hours, and by that time blood sugar tends to go dangerously high once more.

All of this is possible, but not necessarily true for every cat. You should be doing your own frequent testing (every 2 hours) for the first couple of days to determine if it is. This way you can
1) if blood sugar goes dangerously low after 4-5 hours, feed extra to bring it back up
2) Be aware of the possibility of overdosing and adjust dose a bit for safety
3) Be aware of the need for timed feeding to counteract that awful plunge at 4-5 hours
4) Be aware of the possible need to ask your vet for a slower-acting insulin with a more gentle action.

This insulin requires a lot of data to handle well -- without a home blood glucose meter you are flying blind and that's not recommended. Meters are very cheap and can be found at any drugstore. We can help you use them!

Best of luck!

Steve

 

[kate and lucky]

The company that makes Caninsulin has also advised vets to transition kitty's to alternative insulins due toa problem with the prodce, whereby they cannot guarantee the onset, peak and duration of the insulin. Even more dodgy if not hometesting.

Caninsulin would suggest your somewhere in Europe?
If you'd like to give a little more info we can help advise.

You can see the FDA (American) warning at the top of theforum here.
UK Newbies seem to be going onto Insuvet Prozinc, a form of PZI (relatively new, only been around about 6 months so not a great deal known about it)
Lantus and Levemir are 2 excellent long acting insulins.(means they last a full 12 hours and also have something called carry over where action of insulin can go beyond this and helps with next shot too)

Good Luck :mrgreen:

 

[Steve & Jock]

Caninsulin is not only the European name but also the Canadian name of this insulin, so Nutmeg is likely in one of those places. Where are you, Nutmeg?

 

[Nutmeg]

Hi there we are in the UK.

Thank you for all your help and support. I have been injecting her now for 1 1/2 days! It is going well and she seems to have a bit more pep. Her back legs are still bothering her a bit (neuropathy) and she won't jump up to far - but the vet says this will improve.

I did ask the vet about home testing and he says to just observe her for the time being. His view is that more needles may too much for her right now - I am taking her in every week for a blood test though.

I don't know if it makes a difference that she is only on 2 units every 12 hours - it seems a small amount so maybe it doesn't yet warrant daily testing.

I am also keeping her on her dry food (she hates wet food anyway) as the vet said changing her routines too much could be upsetting.

I guess it's early days yet but I am already seeing an improvement in her. I still can't believe how ok she is with the injections. She sits still for us and not a peep out of her - and she doesn't even struggle or object when the needle goes in. She enjoys smelling the syringes and I think she knows they are important for her to feel better again. Afterwards we always have a big cuddle with lots of purring.

 

[kate and lucky]

Hi Nutmeg,

Great to hear Nutmeg is feeling better.

Actually 2u is quite high, Insulin is a powerful drug.
You can get Methyl B12 to help with the neuropathy. It does have to be the right kind. Hilary/Maui knows which is the right one. You can send a PM to her (you see pm's in your control box and then just do a search for her. She also posts in health quite a lot. Others will know too, just she springs to mind)

The weekly blood test will give you an idea of how kitty's glucose levels are, but they can range from 60-300+ in one 12 hour stint. That's why we advocate hometesting.
2u on a dry diet is probably ok, you see the carbs are in the dry. Very high in carbs, can be as much as 60%.
We suggest wet because it is low carbs. Again when transitioning a cat to lower carb food, they need less insulin. Another reason for hometesting.

I fed Lucky Felix 'as good as it looks' 3.4% carbs.
Can also get a couple of varieties of own brand from Tesco (not on own computer so cann't give actual names at mo)If you visit Catinfo.org Dr Lisa explains how you can transition a cat from dry to wet. Do need to be monitoring the insulin (bg's) as can make them drop too low if not working against such high glucose numbers.

Have you asked about the warning on Caninsulin?
It isn't the best choice for cats but I think is the only one that can be prescribed by vets. The others you just need a prescription for and tends to be cheaper and also last a lot longer. Caninsulin is only good for about 28-30 days.

We used Levemir, good for 42-50 days.
If you look at Luckys chart you can see how I couldn't get her regulated on Caninsulin but beautifully on Levemir. Any reading over 250 and damage is being caused to the kidneys. Called renal threshold. The aim is to get kitty into non-diabetic nu,mbers for as much of the day as possible.

Fab that you give lots of cuddles. That's the bit Luckly liked too :mrgreen:
Hometesting really is much easier than it sounds. If you do want to give it a go-can get cheap meter off ebay and cheap strips. One Touch seem to be about £5 a box-and no need for weekly blood tests at vets.

Sadly most vets (and the UK seem to be way behind most of the countries on here) are woefully lacking in their knowledge of up to date treatments of Feline Diabetes.Understanbdable in one way with so many animals and illnesses, but Diabetes is increasing in pets at the same kind of rate as humans (dry food!!1)so they should be more familiar with it!

Let us know if you do want help advice on hometesting or anything else.

Good Luck :mrgreen:

ps-this section might help you too http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb-faq.htm

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

Hi, Kate & Lucky asked me to stop by and tell you about the Methylcobalamin B12 I recommend:

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-B12-Methylc ... 0-Capsules

I see you are in the UK and checked to see if this place ships internationally and they do. Here is the shipping page for your reference. http://www.vitacost.com/Help/#ShippingPolicies

I recommend this one because:

- comes in capsule form - makes it easy to open and mix into wet food
- does not contain any flavors or sugars - I tasted it and couldn't discern any flavor
- I used one capsule daily mixed into food, whatever wasn't consumed no matter and whatever the body didn't need, got peed out

these are the ingredients: Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) 5 mg 83,330%
Other Ingredients: Kosher gelatin (capsule), rice flour and magnesium stearate.

The capsule gets tossed and the rice flour to me is a complex carb and used as a binder, and will take longer to break down then sugar. I never noticed it adversely affecting Maui's bg's either.

I hope this helps - you ought to be able to find this product locally - maybe not the brand, but certainly the product - read the ingredients on the label to see if it has sugar or not, and if it comes in pill form rather than capsule, mix with a little water to melt it and then mix into wet food .

 

[Ruth and Rhinog]

Hello Nutmeg.

Just wanted to say Hi from the UK.

Rhinog and I arrived at this forum just over a year ago thinking that's vets in the UK knew how to treat diabetes. Sadly there seems to be huge holes in their knowledge. Thanks to Kate and Lucky and the other great people here we were given some great advice.

We too were using caninsulin and fed dry food. We changed to wet food, started home testing and took control. We were fortunate enough to be off the insulin after a month. This only happened because of the advice of people on this site.

Please consider home testing. We soon discovered the starting dose the vet had suggested for us was far too high. I don't like to think what would have happened if we weren't home testing. Most pharmacies in the UK will sell blood glucose monitors for about £10. The test strips can be expensive (about £20 a pot) but worth every penny.

We feed Tesco Luxury poultry in Jelly, Tesco Finest in jelly (only as a real treat as it's expensive) or Whiskers Oh so meaty in jelly.

Love the name Nutmeg. Where are you in the UK?

Ruth