Opie 11 year old Needs more guidance

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by OpacleMommy, Jul 18, 2020.

  1. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    So sorry I originally posted incorrect. Thank you for the advice
    Hello All,
    You have all been so helpful so far, and I was home testing and keeping as much of a log as possible. Unfortunately with supplies costing what they do ( as you all know) I ran out and wasn't able to test for a bit until I could order a new supply. However, Opie being on 2 mg insulin twice a day didn't seem to be helping much, he was lethargic and he is nothing but bone.
    So I weaned him off the insulin without getting approval from his vet because honestly he hasn't seemed to be very helpful since he diagnosed Opie. After being off the insulin for a week or so he was more lively, and playing but he was still always hungry. The Tiki I had him on seemed to be too much on his mega colon so I took him off that and was giving him Fancy Feast ( after seeing so many people having a positive experience on here) but this change gave Opie diarrhea. So than we started boiling chicken and making rice for him, but after a couple days he was refusing to eat.
    I am at a loss, because Opie has not shown any improvement. I checked his numbers and because they were high I have started slowly re-introducing insulin. I also put him back on Tiki because I feel like its better for him to have more formed stool than diarrhea.
    I did update my chart in my signature. There aren't that many numbers because as I said I was unable to test for a bit. I put '0' in the chart to indicate when he wasn't receiving insulin.
    If anyone has any words of advice I'd greatly appreciate it. Opie is my baby, and I hate seeing what is happening to him but I also can't give up on him. He can't see at all anymore, his right eye seems to always have a brown crust formingover it, and he falls when he walks. I feel like a horrible Mommy, but I will carry him for the rest of his days if it means I get more with him.

    Many thanks for any advice you can give.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6e3XFSreoP0_fNt02Pf0WkUwtkNv-6khWDX7T/pubhtml Opie's Spreadsheet
     
  2. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    With the numbers that are on your spreadsheet, your kitty needs insulin. We also need more information. What insulin are you using? What meter are you using? The strips vary in price depending on the meter and they are generally a lot less expensive if you buy them online.

    The information that we need for your signature is in this post.

    I do want to encourage you to not shoot blind (i.e., no pre-shot test). You already saw a 34 which is a number than requires a dose reduction. It's very hard to know if your cat's behavior was due to low numbers or high numbers so those tests are important.
     
  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    PLEASE follow Sienne' advice. Shes one of the best here!
     
  4. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    The spreadsheet says she’s on Lantus and using an alpha track
     
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  5. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I just realized as I posted the reply to Sienne that alpha track has the most expensive test strips. If you’re in the US, Walmart’s Relion is used by a lot of us here and the test strips are the most economical. You can get 100 for about $17.99. It’s a good reliable meter and I like it a lot. I find it’s easier to collect the blood with it as the strips have chips that “suck” The blood in and you can visually see when the strip is full and has enough blood
     
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  6. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Just to recap, on the conversation thread @JanetNJ advised to go with maybe 1 unit instead of 2. That’s where we left off I believe
     
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  7. Lalkabee

    Lalkabee Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2020
    Ppl will hate me for saying that but, Freestyle strips give almost the same result when used in Alphatrak meter. I did compare with the Freestyle human meter. It's still very expensive but half the cost and i know it can be overwhelming with the cost of wet food and the vet. I understand, i am in the same boat! Never stop the insulin tho.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  8. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Why won’t you switch to ReliOn?
     
  9. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Thank you. Yes I use the Alphatrak and Lantus. Originally Opie was on 1 unit twice a day and than after a week his Dr told me to up him to 2 units twice a day.
    It was not too soon after this that I got the machine and started testing. I was keeping all of his numbers in a book ( I had no idea this forum or diabetic sheets existed)
    Since my Dr knew I was gonna test at home he never got in touch with me again and when I reached out to him my need for advice went unanswered. I would very much like a 2nd opinion it's just very costly especially if a new vet is going to want to run their own tests.
    I order all of his diabetic supplies from Chewy except for his insulin and syringes which I get from CVS using a prescription discount card.
    I have restarted his Lantus but only once a day. I am trying get him use to it again but wasn't sure how much or how soon. I don't want him to revert to his ways when he was on 2 units twice a day.
    He hates the testing, I use his back feet because it is almost impossible to get any blood from his front paws. He has rough calluses and horns on his paw pads which I trim and file, in an attempt to make walking easier. I know the testing is necessary though. I will do my best to keep up on updating the blood level sheet on here, as I said I usually use a notebook.
    I will of course gladly accept any and all advice. I feel pretty helpless as of late. My grandma had diabetes and I cared for her, insulin injections and testing but I never thought I'd be doing this with my baby. For some reason it seems way more stressful...
     
  10. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Back when I had a diabetic kitty, spreadsheets (here) didnt exist. I used a little note book. I wish we could have had the sheets. I think I would have caught on, more quickly had they existed. People here are put into a difficult position, if they cant see how Opie's numbers track and they cant see the data.

    Lantus must be given every 12 hours.

    I'm upset to hear of so many vets not communicating with their clients. I think in a large way they are using this pandemic as an excuse. I know all of them arent but its disturbing to hear this same story repeated from different regions. :mad:

    I know you are doing your best. I am grateful Opie has such a good and loving mommy.:bighug:
    j.
     
  11. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    A few thoughts. Lantus only lasts for 12 hours so you really need to give it to him twice a day. If you don’t want to do a full unit at first, you can do .5 unit twice a day which is way better than just 1 unit once because he’s basically without insulin for the other 12 hours. Lantus also needs to build up the depot and by only giving it once a day, you’re not giving it a chance to do that. You can get the 1/2 unit marked syringes from Chewy. I have in the past but now I get the ReliOn ones at Walmart. A bit cheaper. As for the Lantus itself, most of us here order them form Mark’s Pharmacy in Canada because it’s a lot cheaper. You get 5 pens for about $169 plus shipping which is like 1/3 of the cost here in the US. If money is an issue, I’d really consider getting the ReliOn from Walmart and the Lantus forum Canada.

    have you tried testing his ear?
     
  12. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Btw, 1/2 units are not as hard to eyeball if you’re not using 1/2 unit marked syringes as the 1/4 units are. For 1/4, you’d definitely need them, so for now I’d try to eye ball 1/2 a unit and you can practice with water and mark the spot with a sharpie before filling the syringe with insulin.
     
  13. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I just wanted to add that I can relate to it being more stressful when it’s your cat. I helped care for my mom too and as bad as that got, she understood we were helping and could communicate up until the last year of her life. It always makes it easier when they can say that hurts or I don’t want any more food. What makes it so hard with our beloved pets is that we’re trying to help and can’t always explain that and sometimes they fight us on it. Take a deep breath and go at your own pace. You can only do your best at any given time.

    I do want to ask you a favor. Would you mind adding a bit more info to your signature? Like the insulin and meter info you have in your ss, can you add that to your signature too please? It’s helpful for more experienced members when giving you advice to have the main facts about your cat at a glance in the signature as opposed to have to look for it :cat:

    here’s the info we typically ask to be included:

    Make sure your signature is up-to-date.
    • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
      • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
      • Add any other text, such as
      • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
      • DX: Date - diagnosis date month/year
      • Name of Insulin
      • Name of your meter
      • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
      • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
      • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
      • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
      • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
      • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
    Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

    Thank you!
     
  14. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Hey guys Opie has megacolon so food is a bit complicated if anyone with experience with megacolon could take a look around that would help Opie's mom a lot

    As they have mentioned giving insulin to a cat only once a day causes a mess on his glucose levels so you need to start giving it twice a day one unit every 12 hours is the recommended starting dose that you will keep for at least a week unless he goes under 90 at any time in which case you will need to lower the dose to 0.75 units( I do recommend that you post at the forum for advice if that happens) but if you want to be super conservative you could go with the 0.5 units
     
  15. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Cosmo (@thebigfuzz ) is also dealing with megacolon and might have some tips. I'm sure there are others, too. It definitely makes things tougher.
     
  16. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Yes, thank you all so much. I am definitely going to do as you all suggested and go back to twice a day for the Lantus. I didn't know Chewy had pre-marked syringes so that is very helpful information
    I will also look into the Freestyle strips to possibly use with the Alphatrak meter, if they do give similar numbers but aren't as expensive as the ones specifically for the Alphatrak that would be a big help.
    I just always worry based on all the other things I've read that the numbers won't be accurate if I go off course with the testing materials.
    I put Opie back on the Tiki brand cat food because it seems he likes it best and it also keeps his stool firm. I'd rather help him with the megacolon than have him with constant diarrhea :(
    I am going to update my chart tonight hopefully. I'm running out of testing supplies so I've been limited to testing only once a day till I can restock. With all of your helpful advice I'm glad I know now there may be more financial savvy options.
    His numbers have been rather high since we went back to Lantus once a day so maybe with the twice a day they will go back down. How many times a day is best to test? I try to wait till at least an hour or two after his 3rd meal of the day (since being brought to once a day) but hopefully I'll get the supplies we need and be able to test more.
    Also @Aleluia Grugru & Minnie thank you for your kind words regarding how hard it is with it being for my furbaby and not for a human. I do often find myself apologizing to him when I have to test his feet and give him insulin. His eyes are so sad and I feel like he doesn't understand what's happening. Just hope he knows it's not his fault and I just want to help him. In response to your question about the testing of his ear, we did start with testing his ear but he hated it so much and I found it difficult to get blood. He doesn't like it from his feet either but he will at least stay still long enough for me test and then he gets tons of feet kisses which I think he enjoys :cat:
     
  17. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Whatever works and they know we’re helping them. They may not understand all the ins and outs and whys but I truly believe they get it energetically :cat:

    I don’t think you can use different strips on alphatrack at least not ReliOn since it’s not even made by the same company. The ReliOn meter is only $9. I restocked at Walmart today and bought 200 strips for about $35 and 200 lancets for like $2

    we always advice you test in the morning and evening before each insulin shot so you know his number and if it’s safe the shoot the same dosage or you have to adjust. If number is too low, you should wait 20 minutes or “stall” with no food and retest to see if the numbers are going up. It’s also good to test at least one more time during the day if you can to get his nadir. I try to alternate every day so I’ll do a +5 today then a +6 tomorrow maybe a +4 or +7 next to catch when the nadir is happening. It’s also good to do a +2 test after the evening shot to see where he’s headed for the night. If it seems too overwhelming at first, stick to the preshot tests and take baby steps towards adding the other 2

    Do the treats help him look less sad after the test? Minnie looks resigned which pulls at my heart strings so I sing and then I give her lots of kisses after and tell her what a good girl she is! I hope she feels a little proud then and of course, the treat right after does help :)
     
  18. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    I'm totally convinced that up to some level they do understand that you do it to help them and as they start getting better numbers and they start feeling better you will notice the change in his attitude and in everything so hang in there

    The two tests you have to do always are the preshoot tests so that you are sure is safe to give insulin, other than those two any extra test you can get will help so the more the better but don't stress too much about them just get them when you can.

    And actually the more calmed you are when testing the easier it gets, when you are nervous they sense it and everything gets more difficult
     
  19. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    yes! Hence my humming a childhood lullaby :smuggrin:
     
  20. Butters & Lyla

    Butters & Lyla Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Hi! I just wanted to note to please be careful and make sure that it is ok to use freestyle strips with an alphatrak monitor. I personally haven’t heard of doing this. I thought the strips and monitors were proprietary, even with all the Abbott products (alphatrak, freestyle).

    I have both a freestyle lite monitor and an alphatrak monitor. I only use freestyle lite strips with the former and alphatrak strips with the latter. I have used both monitors to test the same drop of blood and received vastly different results from them, unlike Lalkabee. Just my experience.

    I don’t know where you are located, but in the US it seems the Relion has the least expensive test strips. Why not get that monitor if you can? If you are in Canada, like I am, test strips are more expensive than in the US, but when I bought the freestyle lite strips the pharmacy gave me the monitor for free. This is common in my neck of the woods. I am not sure about other countries. But alphatrak strips are double the price of the freestyle light ones! :(
     
  21. thebigfuzz

    thebigfuzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    Hello!

    We have the kitty (Cosmo) with megacolon. We are pretty new to the diabetes and megacolon diagnosis, and while we have done well regulating Cosmos #2 issue (he had a total blockage and needed to be surgically unobstructed twice through June/early July. Lots of vet visits). We aren't as regulated in his BG right now. Trying to find the balance ourselves.

    What I have learned about megacolon is that this is also a balancing act between too soft and too hard and monitoring the litter box multiple times a day to see what's happening. What we have also learned:
    -hydration is critical. Diabetes makes a kitty become more dehydrated and sometimes kitties need sub q fluids as frequently as every other day. Many owners use a fountain to encourage more water consumption.
    -Fiber is important to help the stool retain its moisture, stay soft, and kitty regular. We feed a special gastro diet (which isn't low carb, unfortunately, but must be done for regularity, for us), however others feed a diet with more fiber, or add a pinch of a fiber supplement to the regular food (psyllium is safe for diabetics. We have Metamucil capsules that we opened and have sprinkled a pinch on his food before we switched to gastro food).
    -there are medications that can help (cisapride to help gut motility - so the poop doesn't just sit in there and continue dehydrating, Lactulose - a stool softener)
    -If kitty becomes really backed up (36 hrs of no BM), enemas can be given. They cannot be the human kind, however, so one would need to get the lube and equipment from the vet. Or a vet enema may be in order.
    -If the Meds, fiber, water or at home feline enemas don't work, sometimes kitties need to be manually unobstructed under sedation. Like Cosmo needed twice :confused:
    -there is a good feline megacolon FB page with good protocol and advice that we have found helpful :)

    Hope this helps! Again, we are new at this and definitely still navigating our way. :bighug:
     
  22. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    I updated the spreadsheet with the recent numbers but as I stated before I am running out of supplies and currently am waiting for new so hopefully I'll be able to more accurately give updates after the supply arrives. @thebigfuzz thank you so much for offering me your experience with Megacolon and all that comes with it. Opie has been to the Vet multiple times needing Vet given enema's and stool removal. After so many trips, I learned how to administer the vet given enema's and me and Opie only got closer...I also started to learn how to remove his stool ( his vet recommended I get the KY jelly and use that to help make the process easier for Opie) I use it but believe me it does not make the process easier.
    Before Opie was on Tiki I use to feed him pumpkin or yogurt to help and when he would go too long without BM I would give him a mixture of Miralax and that usually helped. The metamucil always seems to make him vomit for some reason.
    Thankfully it seems the Tiki really forms up his stool and it seems more often than not that I can usually just massage his anus to help relieve the stool. No more removal by hand. However, he also never seems to go #2 in the litter box, he just goes where the moment strikes.
    Now with the diabetic diagnosis and the mega colon, it is becoming more stressful to decide if what I'm doing is right for both conditions.
     
  23. thebigfuzz

    thebigfuzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    I totally understand. The balance is difficult for sure :bighug:

    It wasn't so long ago that we felt so hopeless and stuck with Cosmo not having a BM on his own in almost 1.5 months. Enemas, extractions, Meds and praying to the #2 gods LOL. His last extraction was a success and we needed to feed him gastro food only moving forward to hopefully prevent this from happening and be life threatening again for him.

    Unfortunately, Gastro food isn't low carb. It is high fiber. We do get at least 1 daily BM (nice, well formed, large and soft) since then with no Meds or extra supplements. Our goal is to keep Cosmo #2 regulated and adjust his insulin dose per SLGS guidelines to better regulate his BG. We may end up at a higher insulin dose than we would have if we could feed low carb, but it's the balancing act for us.

    :bighug:
     
  24. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Yeah Opie has always been my sick baby. From the moment he came into my life he was riddled with illness. He was the runt of his litter, only weighed 1 pnd when I got him. Within the first month he was sick with a fever, I had to rush him to emergency vet, and he was put on medications and he had to have a special diet. Took him much longer than his litter mate to get better. Since than he has been ear infections, eye infections and too many colds and upper respiratory issues to count. So when the mega colon happened I wasn't too surprised but it was a bigger issue to tackle then all the rest. This year with his diabetic diagnosis was certainly not the cherry on top we were hoping for but I couldn't imagine a day without him.
    He looks different from a year ago. I can see his bones, and he walks very gingerly. He doesn't have too much interest in playing anymore, and he can't see but I swear he sees me. When he looks at me I still see the love, and he still walks over to me when I call him. Might take him a bit longer but heck it takes me longer too :p
    We are only on Tiki wet food now, I read that it was good for cats with diabetes and it seems to be the best at keeping his stool firm. I don't know if its his mega colon or the diabetes but he won't do #2 in the litter box. He tends to go on the floor, whenever the moment hits him. Also, is anyone urine testing at home? I saw there was a kit on Chewy that could be purchased to check urine for diabetic reasons. When Opie goes, he goes often and it's always A LOT!
    Sorry for the somewhat less than appetizing questions but I already feel like I'm walking in 7 inch heels up hill, so I am trying to collect as much information as possible. I updated Opie spreadsheet. He is back to insulin twice a day. However, I haven't been able to get his numbers below the 325, that has been his lowest since returning to two times a day.
     
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  25. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Have you tried L-Lysine for this?
     
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  26. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I believe you can purchase the keto test strips for ketone and glucose at any pharmacy like CVS. Is that what you mean?
     
  27. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    There is a neuropathy some diabetic kitties get specially if they have been uncontrolled for a while and that can cause them weakness in their back legs but that usually gets better once they get regulated and you can give him zovaline to help with that, if you can't get zovaline (we don't have it where I live ) some people give B12 vitamin and folic acid (this is what zovaline is made of )

    Most of us do make urine tests but not for measuring the glucose ( it really doesn't help because it won't tell you how he really is at the moment but more like how he was some hours ago since urine takes a while to come out of the body) but to monitor ketones because sometimes diabetic cats form ketones and that is something that is better to catch early

    Hang in there it takes time to get numbers down you will need a lot of patience, when you start insulin which is more o less where you are since you stopped giving it for a few days you need to hold the dose for at least a week to allow his body to get used to it and the depot to form (with Lantus a tiny bit of insulin from each dose is kind of stored in his body which allows to better results after a while) after a week we will evaluate and odds are you may need to raise the dose a bit ( to 2.2.5 units ) but just wait a few more days before changing it

    Diabetes is a marathon not a sprint and going slow gives the best results, of course that needs a lot of patience from us cat parents because we want them well as soon as possible but on the long run is better
     
  28. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    I had never heard about L-Lysine before and if I did I certainly didn't realize I did. I did a little research and was a little troubled by the possible side effects but I think that's the risk with anything you add to your lifestyle.
    Definitely something I'd like to do more research on & perhaps it will help Opie. I will try anything to help him feel better.:cat:
     
  29. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Thank you so much for this information :bighug: I see Opie having trouble walking a lot more so perhaps the Zobaline will help. I'll see how I can get it.
    Yeah I was thinking of buying the kit but I'm having a hard enough time making sure I test his blood glucose enough, don't know if I should add something else just yet...but I would definitely check his urine, it is always so fizzy and I'm not sure how much fizz is normal.
    I am trying to be patient. I know this is much harder on him than me. However you are right, I want good results fast and I need to accept that just isn't how this works. I will make sure I keep updating my spreadsheet and hopefully you're right and his numbers will get better in the weeks to come.
     
  30. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    We do a very good line in these:

    [​IMG]


    Affectionately referred to as Patience Pants!


    Mogs
    .
     
  31. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
  32. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I have many pairs in my wardrobe, all of them threadbare. :rolleyes:


    Mogs
    .
     
  33. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    :D:p:bighug:
     
  34. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Because of the high contents of actual sugar (glucose) in their urine and the high volume it tends to be foamy or fizzy as you mentioned and more sticky it will also become a bit more normal once his levels are around or under 150 - 200 because that is the theshold when glucose doesn't come out in urine ( which doesn't mean he's ok yet but a lot better)

    Me too :D:D
     
  35. OpacleMommy

    OpacleMommy New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    I have a question regarding the spreadsheet, I think perhaps I've done it wrong. If I did, I will go through and fix it all. I was putting his numbers in today and realized that I was looking at the top number column as a mark for the hour rather than as a mark for how many hours after the insulin injection was given. So sometimes I check Opie blood at like 7 something at night but that is before he gets his 2nd insulin injection. So than when I check it at 10 P.M that is actually only 2 hours after the 2nd insulin injection, and on the chart I've been butting it under the column that says 10, that is wrong? I don't know why I didn't put it together before...before I go through and change it all I wanted to double check with all of you.

    Also thank you to @Critter Mom (Mogs) I can't wait to wear my patient pants thread thin too. Anything for the babies :cat: Seriously, though I definitely needed a smile in the midst of all this:bighug:
     
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  36. Paula and Rocky

    Paula and Rocky Member

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    May 30, 2020
    The +1, +2. etc.. are for how many hours after the shoot. Good luck with Opie !! :bighug:
     
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  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Doesn't take long.... :p ;)

    .
     
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