Peeka 9/4 and some questions

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Hey everyone,

I feel like I am noticing a trend in Peeka’s numbers as we have been changing her diet over. Pre-shots and +2/+3 are all around the same. Just an observation, I got a +5 last night, and her AMPS was around the same area as the +5 from last night. All that said, I do have a couple of quick questions.

1. Based on the testing I’ve been conducting so far, is there ANY possible chance that the insulin is causing her neuropathy to get worse or her BG levels to be out of whack? I ask this because when she was first DX, there were definite signs of her having diabetes, but I feel like when we started giving her insulin, her symptoms got worse. I apologize if this is a dumb question, it’s just something I’ve thought about and was curious as to everyone’s thoughts

2. An observation regarding Peeks. I have noticed the last couple of days, her just lounging in one of her few spots. The only time she is particularly active is when she is hungry or hears us opening a bag. I’m sure her diabetes is probably causing some level of discomfort, and obviously she is not wanting to be as active. When my wife will try and play around with her, she will do more or less her normal level of activity. Pawing at a string, trying to catch a finger or so. Again, just curious to everyone’s thoughts.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Based on the testing I’ve been conducting so far, is there ANY possible chance that the insulin is causing her neuropathy to get worse or her BG levels to be out of whack?

NOT an expert here but...That would be a new one on me.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

NOT an expert here but...That would be a new one on me.

It was based on something I saw on the Facebook page (part of the reason I stay off, it drives my brain into hyperdrive, and suddenly, almost anything can apply to Peeka.) but someone had mentioned they were giving too much insulin, and that could cause higher BG levels because the pancreas was working harder. Or something along those lines. Again, not something I’m aware of, just posing the question since it was a thought I had had.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

It was based on something I saw on the Facebook page (part of the reason I stay off, it drives my brain into hyperdrive, and suddenly, almost anything can apply to Peeka.) but someone had mentioned they were giving too much insulin, and that could cause higher BG levels because the pancreas was working harder. Or something along those lines. Again, not something I’m aware of, just posing the question since it was a thought I had had.

Well its true giving too much insulin can "look" on paper like kitty isnt getting enough. I dont know how to explain it but that def can happen. Let me see if I can find it...

Facebook? Whats that???

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Well shoot I cant find the explanation

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Facebook? Whats that???

Ugh, my least favorite website. I removed the app yesterday. Just not worth seeing anymore imo, if it’s important enough, my wife will let me know.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

never been on FB . I do however frequent Tommy Chong's twitter page

this site and that, are the extent of my social media.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

I definitely understand. No worries. If someone has an idea if that’s a possibility, I wouldn’t mind testing it out, anything to help out my sweets.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

I have never read anywhere that insulin can cause neuropathy or make it worse. Some things cant be rushed (as much as we would like) These day we go to the doctor get a pill or a treatment and boom everything is fixed. Patience is the key to FD. Your new "routine" hovers around your babies. Its only natural after making so many changes you want to see results. Please know the results ARE happening. They just havent made it apparent yet. Patience is a hard emotion to harness but no harder than waiting for results.

 

[Critter Mom]

someone had mentioned they were giving too much insulin, and that could cause higher BG levels because the pancreas was working harder.

If a cat is receiving too much insulin the body will respond by releasing hormones which trigger the body into producing more sugar to compensate (same mechanism as bouncing). In such a case it would be the liver working harder, not the pancreas. ETA: It is also possible that the cat may have gone low on too high a dose at some stage but the low was missed because it didn't coincide with the times when tests were done.

At the moment you've got a lot of things in flux, Peter. You've needed to reduce the insulin dose for safety reasons while the food transition is going on so Peeka's insulin amount may well not be at the optimum at the moment, but safety has to come first. Once the changeover is completed you'll be able to better assess Peeka's status on the lower carb food and, if necessary, tweak the dose again. (Note: depending on the impact of the diet change on Peeka's BG levels in the interim, you may need to tweak the dose before that.)


Mogs
.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

THANKS Mogs!

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

If a cat is receiving too much insulin the body will respond by releasing hormones which trigger the body into producing more sugar to compensate (same mechanism as bouncing). In such a case it would be the liver working harder, not the pancreas. ETA: It is also possible that the cat may have gone low on too high a dose at some stage but the low was missed because it didn't coincide with the times when tests were done.

At the moment you've got a lot of things in flux, Peter. You've needed to reduce the insulin dose for safety reasons while the food transition is going on so Peeka's insulin amount may well not be at the optimum at the moment, but safety has to come first. Once the changeover is completed you'll be able to better assess Peeka's status on the lower carb food and, if necessary, tweak the dose again. (Note: depending on the impact of the diet change on Peeka's BG levels in the interim, you may need to tweak the dose before that.)


Mogs
.

Appreciate the insight. This is why I need to stop doing individual research, maybe I'm just looking for a quick fix. I know it took Boo almost 3 years to get to a level where we feel comfortable again. Granted, he never looked nearly as bad as Peeka, but he lost a ton of weight, was walking on his hind hocks, and drinking and peeing a ton. I'm hoping to cut that time down drastically with Peeka now that we have started home testing, giving lower carb food, etc.

We also did start giving about 50/50 on her new food today. I was somewhat relieved to see her BG where it was this morning, since I didn't have to panic much about her levels.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding Peeka's using the restroom outside of the litter box? My wife came home to find one of the other dog/cat beds covered in urine and some poop on the carpet. Something that I haven't mentioned is at the start of all this, Peeka had to go to the vet in order to get an enema to have her stool removed. Since then, she has had mushy bowel movements, so I can always tell when it is hers. Is this something that will get better as her diabetes gets more under control? Both going outside the litter box and the consistency?

Would love some advice, feels discouraging getting these calls from my wife and I can't be there to assist.

Edit: She had two bowel movements today, the first was right outside one of the litter boxes that is slightly more elevated. I normally only notice one bowel movement per day. If anyone has had any experience with this, I would love to know if this is something to expect and if it will get better.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding Peeka's using the restroom outside of the litter box? My wife came home to find one of the other dog/cat beds covered in urine and some poop on the carpet. Something that I haven't mentioned is at the start of all this, Peeka had to go to the vet in order to get an enema to have her stool removed. Since then, she has had mushy bowel movements, so I can always tell when it is hers. Is this something that will get better as her diabetes gets more under control? Both going outside the litter box and the consistency?

Would love some advice, feels discouraging getting these calls from my wife and I can't be there to assist.

Yes and actually your dear wife shouldnt be cleaning up after cats. I dont mean to scare you but cats can carry a...condition Toxoplasmosis is a parasite carried by some cats. It is transferred from their feces. I think in early pregnancy it can be transferred to the fetus. I've know pregnant ladies that never worried about it and never knew ANY infected.

It sounds to me like Peeka needs a probiotic. Are you able to call her vet and ask for the proper
@Critter Mom probably knows what to ask for.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

hope I havent opened a can of worms

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Yes and actually your dear wife shouldnt be cleaning up after cats. I dont mean to scare you but cats can carry a...condition Toxoplasmosis is a parasite carried by some cats. It is transferred from their feces. I think in early pregnancy it can be transferred to the fetus. I've know pregnant ladies that never worried about it and never knew ANY infected.

I understand. She used gloves and mask, washed hands before and after as well. I know it's not ideal, she is 6 months in right now, hopefully won't be an issue. I know she is taking proper precautions though.

We ordered a lower litter tray, I'm not so much currently worried about the consistency, I'm more worried that she is doing it outside of her litter box, especially because she has been successfully using it the last few days.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

I understand. She used gloves and mask, washed hands before and after as well. I know it's not ideal, she is 6 months in right now, hopefully won't be an issue. I know she is taking proper precautions though.

We ordered a lower litter tray, I'm not so much currently worried about the consistency, I'm more worried that she is doing it outside of her litter box, especially because she has been successfully using it the last few days.

WHEW! smh...

I'm glad the lower box worked. Maybe she HAD to go and just couldnt get there??? sigh Sorry but as ALWAYS hold on for more replies!

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

I'm glad the lower box worked. Maybe she HAD to go and just couldnt get there???

Well we just bought the new lower box today. It hasn’t come in yet. When she went this morning, it was at least in the laundry room, where the litter boxes are. Apparently when she went while we were out, it was in our room. I’m hoping we start seeing signs of improvement soon, I don’t know how we will handle a diabetic cat in Peekas condition and a newborn.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Well we just bought the new lower box today. It hasn’t come in yet. When she went this morning, it was at least in the laundry room, where the litter boxes are. Apparently when she went while we were out, it was in our room. I’m hoping we start seeing signs of improvement soon, I don’t know how we will handle a diabetic cat in Peekas condition and a newborn.

Ugh sorry I misread your post.
Ya know Peter you handle it just like you handle everything else ...one step at a time and just do it. I have to admit I would be thinking just like you are. I also know I would have to put the patience pants on and dig in and do it.
Come here and vent when things get tough. We will lift you up.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Ugh sorry I misread your post.
Ya know Peter you handle it just like you handle everything else ...one step at a time and just do it. I have to admit I would be thinking just like you are. I also know I would have to put the patience pants on and dig in and do it.
Come here and vent when things get tough. We will lift you up.

I appreciate it, this is causing probably the most amount of anxiety I’ve ever had and hearing this negative reports from my wife doesn’t do much to help matter.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

I appreciate it, this is causing probably the most amount of anxiety I’ve ever had and hearing this negative reports from my wife doesn’t do much to help matter.

Well Yeah its VERY stressful especially when you are trying so hard...You both are. The only thing I can think of is IF it wouldnt cause Peeka too much stress put her in a room along with her new box while you ar gone. I HATE this idea and wouldnt even suggest it if not for these stressful situations you are in. IF you think it would stress out Peeka too much then not a good idea.

Lets see what others have to say ok? Maybe theres a simpler plan you can follow.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

S Boulardii is a great probiotic for regulating stool. It takes a week or so to start to work and for you to see a difference.

I just had to cover everything with pee pads. Seriously. And I was washing the beds every morning. She’d always pee in one or more overnight. It comes with the neuropathy sadly because going in and out of the litter box is painful and nearly impossible for them. I don’t remember, did you start her on the b12 methyl?

 

[Critter Mom]

Soft stool may be due to the diet transition. Don't rush the next step, hold at the level Peeka's at for now. If the stool doesn't firm up tomorrow, you'll need to step back a bit (say 70:30 old:new) and work up in smaller steps.

Kaolin probiotic paste (e.g. Pro-Kolin) can help resolve diarrhoea fairly quickly but it's very messy to administer.


Mogs
.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

So the stool has been soft for a few months now. Ever since she had that enema

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

S Boulardii is a great probiotic for regulating stool. It takes a week or so to start to work and for you to see a difference.

I just had to cover everything with pee pads. Seriously. And I was washing the beds every morning. She’d always pee in one or more overnight. It comes with the neuropathy sadly because going in and out of the litter box is painful and nearly impossible for them. I don’t remember, did you start her on the b12 methyl?

She started b12 methyl about two weeks ago now

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Morning Peter
Peeka is right there once those numbers come down a bit lower that MB12 will start working.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Morning Peter
Peeka is right there once those numbers come down a bit lower that MB12 will start working.

So the Methyl B12 only starts working once the BG levels are better then. I wasn't sure if we were supposed to see anything with that, she is still able to walk, but it feels like her legs are getting weaker, not sure if that makes any sense. She can still cover decent distances in one go, but it does feel like there is a struggle. Perhaps I'm being hyper aware. I also tested this morning as well. AMPS 395 and +2 232. I know I am supposed to be looking for the NADIR right now as we transition food, but I can't help but notice the numbers the last few days have all been fairly similar, could that possibly mean better control for when we need to change the dosage?

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I try to repeat this every time I talk about b12 methyl so folks can manage their expectations. I tell people you can start your cat on it now, but you will not see any results until the diabetes is regulated. Basically the nerves are still being “attacked” but the excess glucose and they don’t have a chance to regenerate, in fact they get worse because they keep getting damaged. It’s only when the excess glucose stops interfering that the b12 can effectively start to help regenerate the nerves. That’s why it’s important to manage the food and the dose by testing and following the SLGS protocol, so you can increase at an optimum pace.

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

That’s why it’s important to manage the food and the dose by testing and following the SLGS protocol, so you can increase at an optimum pace.

thanks for the info. I’ll keep her on it in the meantime. I’m hopeful here once her diet is 100% changed over, and we start increasing dosage as needed, we can start to see some progress. I feel like we were moving in the right direction when we had her at 3.25u

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Yes, absolutely. The good news is they recover fast. I was amazed at how much Minnie improved in less than 3 months. Keep her on it. It won’t hurt. Are you getting zobaline or the Vitacost brand? Once she’s regulated, I’d up her dosage. I had Minnie on 1 and 1/2 capsules a day. Then once she recovered I went back down to 1

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Yes, absolutely. The good news is they recover fast. I was amazed at how much Minnie improved in less than 3 months. Keep her on it. It won’t hurt. Are you getting zobaline or the Vitacost brand? Once she’s regulated, I’d up her dosage. I had Minnie on 1 and 1/2 capsules a day. Then once she recovered I went back down to 1

right now Vitacost and once a day. Once we start getting some blue numbers again I will increase the dose

 

[Peter (Boo) (Peeka GA)]

Yes, absolutely. The good news is they recover fast. I was amazed at how much Minnie improved in less than 3 months. Keep her on it. It won’t hurt. Are you getting zobaline or the Vitacost brand? Once she’s regulated, I’d up her dosage. I had Minnie on 1 and 1/2 capsules a day. Then once she recovered I went back down to 1

Thank you for your encouragement. All I want is for my sweet Peeks to start looking and feeling better