Pita's Dosing Party: 2

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Caitlin M, Apr 24, 2017.

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  1. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    332 PMPS, going to give 1.2u and test before bed to see where he's at.
     
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  2. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good :cat:
     
  3. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    +2.5 was just 210. I'll be up for another 20 minutes. Does anyone suggest I test at maybe +5/6? Thanks in advance!
     
  4. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    *raises hand* :oops:
     
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  5. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think you can sleep soundly.

    Uh-oh....I just saw Yong's post....well now you can flip a coin?
     
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  6. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha both of your responses perfectly sum up what's in my head! I'll set an alarm (Yong) and see if I can actually wake up (Djamila). Thanks friends!
     
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  7. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    lol yay middle ground!
     
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  8. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    :) we'll see which one wins tonight. Goodnight!!
     
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  9. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    We'll be waiting to see what wins!
     
  10. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Well, I set an alarm and had someone call me to wake up. Barely remember answering my phone! So that didn't work last night :rolleyes: Anywho, 334 AMPS, gave 1.4u because I haven't given that am dose in a few days. Really not sure what else to do, so I'll see what I get later.
     
  11. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much came back to where he was at PMPS, wondering if you could measure a 1.3U :bookworm:
     
  12. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Haha 1.3 would end up being either 1.2 or 1.4. I'm thinking he may need to go up to 1.6 this weekend and see where he goes. I really have no clue though!
     
  13. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, you did have some nice numbers on the 1.6, including PS. I think his PS numbers right now are a little trampoline influenced :rolleyes:
     
  14. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I agree! I'll have to play around a bit again I suppose
     
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  15. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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  17. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    323 PMPS. Going to give 1.4u and test before bed. Since I can sleep after his AMPS, I don't mind/ will force myself to get up to test during the night if necessary. Figured I may as well try 1.4 at night again!
     
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  18. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    +3 was 219. Going to wake up for a +6 to maybe get a better handle on what's happening.
     
  19. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Side note: he's being very rambunctious right now... Meowing while staring at me, purposely knocking stuff over...like he's hungry. He did get treats for the +3 test though. Not out of the ordinary by any means but felt like I should mention it o_O
     
  20. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Maury was doing a little of that after dinner and shot lol. I followed him around as he meowed and paw'd at things randomly then we settled :confused::p
     
  21. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he is finally curled up sleeping in the bed. Thank goodness. Will be up in a couple hours to test!
     
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  22. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Epic fail. Couldn't get blood :banghead: Back to bed.... At least I tried?!
     
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  23. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    No blood AMPS either. Both ears are pretty bruised though so after a few pokes I felt awful and am hoping they get some relief today. Dosed 1.2 based off of everything lately. ::Sigh::
     
  24. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I think that was a good choice. Maybe a little break is what he needs. Do you use neosporin?
     
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  25. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Yes I do before and after each test.
     
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  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Frustrating but at least you have data to guide you.
     
  27. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    250 PMPS. Pretty darn happy with that! Now the question is, do I stick with 1.2 or do I go a little strong with 1.4? I'm thinking 1.4 but for some reason I'm feeling a little frisky. Thoughts?
     
  28. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I still don't know what to make of the numbers you've been seeing....so I say go for it -- but test.
     
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  29. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Went for the feisty. Will test before bed and give food if necessary/wake up again.
     
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  30. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Has his food changed at all lately?
     
  31. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Nope!
     
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    He's just being a cat. o_O
     
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  33. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    +3 was 148 :cool: do I test again at a +5/+6? Not quite 50% of the PMPS.
     
  34. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I would give him a little LC food and have serious intentions to check again later ;)
     
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  35. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Lol seriously serious intentions? He'll be happy about the food. Just a couple tsp I think...?
     
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  36. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I think that should be fine :). Yes serious intentions. I'm terrible about waking up to a mid sleep cycle alarm, well alarms in general lol. Once I'm asleep. I'm ASLEEP :D
     
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  37. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I'm good when I know I HAVE to test him. But the other night when there wasn't a huge need, nothing could wake me! I'll give 1 tsp and wake up for +6. Thank you Yong!
     
  38. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    True, if I go to bed really worried I'll wake up before the mid alarm :smuggrin:
     
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  39. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad it isn't just me. I've always felt like a bad kitty mommy on here for not being able to get up for middle of the night tests!
     
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  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I do it under duress but it wrecks my sleep and then I'm a zombie the next day.
     
  41. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    +6.5 was a lovely 91. Made it worth waking up :D See what AMPS brings!
     
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  42. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I used to do nighttime tests but only when I woke up on my own. If I set an alarm, I wouldn't get any sleep because I couldn't go to sleep knowing I'd have to wake up soon!
     
  43. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Gave 1.4 u with a 279 AMPS. Actually a bit surprised it went that high, but he did have 5 more hours after the green. Think I'm definitely going to try 1.6 this weekend for the am, maybe 1.4 for pm.
     
  44. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Any chance you can get mid-cycles on Saturday and Sunday? You got green last night on the later side of the nadir, (it may have been even a bit lower at +5). My thinking is that f your nadir is in healthy numbers, you don't really want to raise the dose. You might hold the dose and give it some time to bring the pre-shots back down. However, you don't have recent data on 1.4 during the day to see if it's also working during the AM cycle -- so if you can get a mid-cycle on 1.4 on Saturday, then you would still be able to try 1.6 on Sunday if the AM 1.4 mid-cycle is too high.
     
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  45. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Now that I've said all that, I'm second guessing it. You did have much nicer pre-shots around 1.6....so maybe you should just raise it. My concern is just that 1.6 was putting him on the edge of going low, and since you can't monitor during the day, that seems risky.
     
  46. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I figured if I do the 1.6 on the weekend, I am able to test. I know, it's all over the place! I know I'm probably being a bit dumb and stubborn trying to get the blues back for pre-shots, but I'd love to see them again. Either way, I have no idea what's happening with the doses so I may as well play around a bit while I'm home :smuggrin: I also love how you explain things and then give the opposite side to your previous thoughts!
     
  47. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think the "play around" idea is part of why my first thinking is to hold the dose. His dose keeps bumping around between 1, 1.2, and 1.4. There isn't any period where he's had a consistent dose for more than 2-3 cycles in a row, and at a low dose like this, 0.2 is a significant difference. Insulin effects more in the body than just BG, so changing it around might be causing some havoc for him. Some cats can be on a sliding scale and be fine, for other cats it causes bouncing -- which may be what we're seeing.

    But I also hate seeing him in yellows and pinks when a couple of weeks ago, he was giving you blues.

    In just about every area of life, I can see/argue multiple sides -- that's why it never hurts my feelings if someone disagrees with me! :)
     
  48. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Haha my other thought is that he's bouncing as well and the reason doses kept changing was the inconsistent #'s. Ugh, maybe regardless of #'s I should just stay with 1.4 am, 1.2 pm and see how it works. It's just hard for me to see higher #'s and not give more/ see lower #'s and not give less. Errrr :arghh:
     
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  49. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wait...why 1.2 for PM? I would say 1.4 for both doses....but maybe I'm missing something?

    And as for shooting more/less...if you look at my spreadsheet, you'll see that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I give in to adjusting doses too. The thing is, I've started realizing lately that I almost always regret the adjustment, and Sam seems to make better progress when I hold it steady for him, until he gives me a number that is low enough to force me to adjust (hitting my 'no shot' number, or hitting 50 at nadir)
     
  50. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Possibly because Caitlin is still on the 13/11 schedule :)
     
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  51. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm doing the 13/11 schedule and when he started having lower #'s it was suggested to try slightly higher for day (1.2-1.4) and lower for night (1.0-1.2). So that's what I did and changed the dose .2 depending on how low he was. Which is why I have no clue where to go from here :bookworm: since he's back to higher and I'm not convinced it's a bounce anymore.
     
  52. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My approach is always to reduce the number of variables to the bare minimum in order to study the effect of a change in one of the factors. The factors here are: 1. dose and 2. 13/11 schedule.
    • Methodical me would have scanned past data on the SS to assess the overall effect of same AM/PM dose on a 12/12 schedule. Is BG consistently higher AM or PM?
    • Then I would scan for effect of sliding scale on 12/12 schedule. Am I getting better PSs with a sliding scale dose and do I need a bigger dose AM or PM most of the time?
    • Then I would try an OK set dose on 13/11 schedule for a couple of days. Does this reveal anything about how a set dose acts overnight versus during the day?
    • Finally I would try sliding scale on 13/11 for a couple of days. Can I manage two variables at the same time to get better PSs?
    Wild card: we're dealing with a cat!
     
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  53. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Overall I understand all of that, so forgive me if this sounds rude.....but what does that mean for right now?! :bookworm:
     
  54. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You don't sound rude. I wasn't clear about the intent of my post: I was just giving you my take on a situation like this, some things to try maybe. I vote for keeping the same dose AM and PM for a couple of days.
     
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  55. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Haha ok phew! So you think the same dose for both am/pm or stick to say- 1.2 am, 1.4 pm for a few days regardless?
     
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  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Am I correct that the 13/11 schedule is to accommodate your new job? That has to be followed then. Maybe try the same dose at both AM and PM for a couple of days to see what happens. Then move on to a different dose AM and PM and keep those two doses fixed for a couple of days. Now, if he throws you a crazy low number you'll have to pay attention to that but otherwise it's a data-gathering exercise. It's always a good idea to slow down and simplify things when you get to a time when you're confused and aren't sure how to proceed.
     
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  57. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Yes it's because of my position. Ok, I'll stick to 1.4 for both until Sunday and then possibly go down to 1.2 until Wednesday. Thank you!
     
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  58. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I like the 1.4 part...I'd would wait to decide on the 1.2 part of the plan until you see where the numbers go over the weekend.
     
  59. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Yes definitely! :joyful:
     
  60. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    333 PMPS, 286 AMPS. Gave 1.4 both shots. +5 at 128.
     
  61. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Nice +5!
     
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  62. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    +9 was 162. Will be gone now until PMPS.
     
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  63. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    274 PMPS, but was home a bit late, so his shot was late as well. Will do at least one more test before bed!
     
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  64. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    What are you thinking for tomorrow? Are you home tomorrow? You've held the 1.4 for awhile...I'm wondering if you should try 1.6? A couple of weeks ago, that was too much, but with the higher numbers you're seeing....?

    Pita, what are you up to?!?
     
  65. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, I have no clue about what to do for tomorrow! Yes, I'll be home (minus a couple errands). I just don't know....
     
  66. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I think you could give it a try and just see if it will help bump him into slightly better numbers. You'll be there to steer if needed...but it's definitely up to you and whether you feel comfortable with it!
     
  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Nice cycle today but I think you could try 1.6 u tomorrow.
     
  68. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both! I gave 1.6 with a 339 AMPS and +4.25 was just 232
     
  69. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Are you still on your original bottle of prozinc? I wonder if it's starting to wear out.
     
  70. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I am. I'd say there's about 1/3 left... IMG_20170430_092804.jpg

    It's a possibility but that bums me out if there's still that much left.
     
  71. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I used mine for exactly 3 months and there's still about, below the label left as a backup. I got worried about getting more air. Now that I looked, this bottle is doing better than the first (anti-jinx)
     
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  72. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I started using it on February 18, so it's just a bit over 2 months old.
     
  73. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Mine is about the same age as yours, and I still have a lot left too. It doesn't seem to be working as well these days, but it's entirely possible that's just where Sam's at right now, and not the fault of the insulin. Also, I hate to spend $170 (it's expensive here!) when he seems so close...(anti-jinx). @Yong, when you switched, did you notice any difference?
     
  74. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think one of our stickies says they last about three months, so you probably have another month or so to go. Mine is actually a little older.
     
  75. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I think you may just be seeing a bounce. Did you get a before bed test last night?
     
  76. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    The "end" of the first vial did better and I do roll it for 30s - 1 minute. Hard to say if the better progress is because of the vial or Maury lol

    And wow $170
     
  77. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Me or Djamila? I actually did not get a test before bed, which I meant to :(
     
  78. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, yes, Pita bouncing :)
    I think Sam is ready for 0.2U or a trial :joyful: (anti-jinx)
     
  79. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    He may be bouncing, because he's still getting lower numbers during the day, but his pre-shots are staying higher. Well, at this point maybe I keep the 1.6 units as planned for a few days and if the pre-shot numbers aren't getting any lower I can try to get a new vial this upcoming weekend? I'm slightly annoyed that there's a good amount left though, if it is wearing off.
     
  80. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    So hard to know if it's the insulin or the cat :confused::facepalm:
     
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  81. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    If you're only at two months, I doubt it's the insulin. I think go with the 1.6 for a few cycles and see what happens. You did get a good drop yesterday, so hopefully the dose increase will start to bring him back down.
     
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  82. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I agree...at 2 months it shouldn't be the insulin. I frequently used mine up. Try 1.6 as Djamila said and if that doesn't work, we'll all go from there! :)
     
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  83. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all SO much! +7.25 was just at 210. I'm happy to hear that it shouldn't be the insulin :facepalm: I'll continue the 1.6 and see what happens! He's still getting 2.75oz of the Friskies pate (although he shares that amount) at about +6/+6.5 during each day/13 hour cycle. I'mwondering if he maybe doesn't need it anymore? For the many years I've had him, this is the first time he's had a snack during the day. He was usually only fed twice a day. Thoughts?
     
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  84. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm...could be. You could try not giving him the snack one day when you're home and test and see if that changes things?
     
  85. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Okay, that won't be until next Saturday so I'll see what this week brings!
     
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  86. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Well he's certainly consistent! 337 PMPS, giving 1.6 and will test before bed. So he's getting lower from the dose, but it's rising back up to the high 200- 300's.
     
  87. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Passed out hard, so no pre bed test. 371 AMPS, giving 1.6
     
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  88. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Haha it happens!!!
     
  89. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I had a run with that too and still don't know why :D. But I haven't seen any nice greens for a bit :(. Finding the dose between S2.0U and F2.0U is so fun! You'd think it would be easy and just be a simple 2.0U but CATS :cat::p:cat:
     
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  90. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    347 PMPS :oops:
     
  91. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    +2 was only 320. Maybe it is the insulin? That just makes me mad if it is!
     
  92. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I'll continue the 1.6 for a couple more days and if I have to suck it up and buy a new vial I will.
     
  93. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Feb 10, 2017
    291 AMPS! Never been so excited to see a (high) 200's. We shall see Pita, we shall see.....
     
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  94. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm...I mean, I would be surprised if the insulin was going bad, but it COULD be. If you do get another vial, I suggest hanging on to the old one in case anything ever happens to the current vial. Even if it isn't as strong, if you drop the new bottle, you'll be glad to have SOMETHING to give. :)
     
  95. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Well, if I order a new one I can continue to use this one and just leave the other unopened..it'll stay good right? I may see how long it would take for a new one. Ugh, I just don't know what to do! I also haven't spoken to my vet since his diagnosis, since she wasn't supportive of home testing and I honestly just ignored any contact...I hate confrontation :nailbiting: I'm assuming she won't refuse a new vial as that would be very cruel. Yeah, I need to just see if she's willing to work with me or find a new vet.
     
    Yong & Maury GA likes this.
  96. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    So frustrating if a vet let's her ego get in the way. When Teasel was on ProZinc, I'd just call in for a new vial, tell them what dose he was on so they could print out the label "properly" and my vet just initialled the label. Now that he's on Lantus, I can buy it OTC here in Ontario, Canada. The vet isn't involved at all except when I give her a quick update on how he's doing.
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  97. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Another thought: you're still dosing 13/11 right? You've done the same dose AM/PM for quite a while now and you have fewer blue PSs than when you used sliding scale. You could try going back to sliding scale on the 13/11 schedule - maybe giving a slightly larger dose AM and slightly smaller PM. What do you think? This is another experiment ...
     
  98. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Yes still 13/11. Lol I'm up for anything Kris! Any thoughts on which doses might be good?
     
  99. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    @JanetNJ is the sliding scale guru. I don't have any experience designing them so she'd be the one to ask. Also mention the 13/11 schedule that you need to follow. I've just tagged her.
     
  100. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Thank you!
     
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