Please help my Charlie!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Nina.Felz, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    9CB58C13-3177-40CC-85B7-E0A62718C7B5.jpeg E90A3E7A-334D-4CAE-BB01-CACD99AB63A2.jpeg 270A1258-6206-42C8-A73A-E955416ECD52.jpeg 6FB3C0AC-AE95-444A-B000-F3A6D106BAC0.jpeg Hello, I hope this finds everyone well and safe!
    I have never done this but i am asking for advice for our amazing king of the jungle, Charlie. Charlie is 10 years old and was always a very big muscular cat. Over the past month or so we noticed him deteriorating. We recently found out that he has diabetes. We have taken him to 3 different vets. All have said that everything is normal except for the diabetes. One vet wanted a little over $5000 for treatment that he wouldn’t even explain, the second vet said to put him to sleep, and the third vet just gave us insulin and basically said good luck and he should be fine. They did not give us any instructions and called his insulin into CVS. When calling the vet, just to get simple instructions, the receptionist (her name is Kathy at Twin Oaks in Teaneck) said to just watch YouTube videos and hangs up the phone. This has happened repeatedly with only this individual that works there. According to the instructions on his prescription, he is to be administered 2 units of insulin twice a day. Since getting the insulin, Charlie has been twitching or having seizures. It seems to be worse at nighttime. Last night was the absolute worst it has ever been. He has been very lethargic, wobbling, and sleeps with his eyes open. But he is eating and drinking. My husband and I can’t even sleep because we are so worried about him. He’s our baby and he has been such a loyal and loving companion and we will do whatever we can to make him feel better. Please, if anyone can recommend anything for our Charlie it would be so greatly appreciated. Please see files attached! 270A1258-6206-42C8-A73A-E955416ECD52.jpeg 6FB3C0AC-AE95-444A-B000-F3A6D106BAC0.jpeg
     
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome to the forum. I am so glad you have found us.
    It sounds as if your Charlie’s blood sugars are too low.
    If he is lethargic, wobbly and twitchy now, please give him a drop of honey or put some on his gums.
    Posting this.... more Following
     
  3. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Thank you so so much. It is so appreciated
     
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  4. THH & Snowcrash (GA)

    THH & Snowcrash (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2020
    Novolin N is a dangerous insulin to use with cats because it can drop their blood glucose levels too fast. It sounds like that's what happening with your cat... seizures can be caused by hypoglycemia.

    Are you able to test blood glucose levels at home?

    Please do not give him any more insulin until you hear from more experienced people on here.
     
  5. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    First of all, I am so sorry you are all going through this.
    Novolin N is not a suitable insulin for cats and 2 units is too much. Please don’t give any more at the moment.
    Can you find another vet who knows a bit more about feline diabetes.......I know that can be hard sometimes.
    Not sure where you live but suitable insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc.

    There is a lot you can do to help Charlie and get him back to his former self.

    • I would go out today and buy a human glucose meter from Walmart or a pharmacy. Walmart have the ReliOn brand Which is suitable.we will help you to learn to test the blood sugars and keep Charlie safe.
    • Buy some higher carb food and make sure you have honey or Karo on hand in case of low numbers
    • Feed a low carb diet. I will post a link to suitable foods.
    • Set up a spreadsheet and signature so we can help you
    But first we need to make sure Charlie is Ok and his blood sugars are up to normal.

    How to treat a hypo
    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    How you can help us help you

    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

    Suitable foods

    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

    Home testing link

    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
     
  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Nina, have you given him some honey or Karo. Also offer him some food if he will eat.
     
  7. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    I'm so sorry, it is heart breaking that your vet experiences have been awful, but good for you for seeking some help, we can help you here. Novalin isn't the best insulin for cats, it can hit hard and fast.

    Here is the guide from the subforum, https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-humulin-n-novolin-n-nph.231593/

    Are you able to get a blood glucose monitor? It is so important to be able to test your cat's levels before giving insulin. Most of us use a human meter, you can get at any pharmacy.
     
  8. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Nina, could you let us know how Charlie is doing please as we want to be able to help you.
     
  9. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Nina welcome

    I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience with the vets, you are not alone in that a lot of us got a rough start and bad vet experiences but this is a great place to be if your cat is diabetic, there are a lot of things you can do for Charlie

    But the first thing right now is to make sure he's ok, so no more insulin for the time being and make sure he eats something once we know he's a bit better we'll take it from there and start guiding you guys on what you have to do to help him

    Diabetic cats can have a normal long happy life you just have to get it under control and it is not that hard once you know what to do
     
  10. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    My heart is so happy from all of these responses! I have Karo syrup and a very good family friend of mine has the blood sugar/glucose device. He has a minor twitch attack about an hour ago. I gave him a little Karo syrup and he stopped after a few seconds (seemed more like an eternity). Currently, he is eating fancy feast patté (his favorite) and drinking water.
     
  11. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    My heart is so happy from all of these responses! I have Karo syrup and a very good family friend of mine has the blood sugar/glucose device. He has a minor twitch attack about an hour ago. I gave him a little Karo syrup and he stopped after a few seconds (seemed more like an eternity). Currently, he is eating fancy feast patté (his favorite) and drinking water.
     
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  12. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

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    Dec 8, 2020
    I live in Bergen county, NJ. Does anyone have a vet that they could recommend around this area? Even if it’s a bit far, i will go
     
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  13. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I am so pleased to see your response and happy to hear Charlie is responding to the honey.
    It does sound as if he has been having hypoglycaemic episodes with the insulin. Having seizures is serious and it is really important you now start to test the blood glucose (BG) levels so you can keep him safe.
    Unless your friend is going to give you the meter to use indefinitely, I would recommend you buy one. They are cheap and if you buy a ReliOn one, the test strips are also cheap.
    It’s important you are able to start testing today so we can see what is happening with the BG.

    Please also go out and buy some fancy feast gravy lovers canned food so you have some high carb food available if needed.

    I would phone around and ask the vets if they are experienced with feline diabetes and what insulin they use.
    Once you can get a suitable insulin, we can guide you with the dose.
    We don’t want to leave Charlie too long without insulin if he needs it......but please don’t give him any more insulin until we see what his BG is.

    Continue giving him small frequent snacks of food.

    Please hit the like button when you read posts so we know you have seen and read it...that helps us as we are always very concerned when we get a sick or hypo kitty. And keep in close contact please :)
     
  14. JaxBenji

    JaxBenji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    @Diane Tyler's Mom is in NJ though not sure where but maybe can recommend someone. Her kitty Tyler is on Lantus.
     
  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Also tagging @JanetNJ to ask whether she can help with finding a good vet.


    Mogs
    .
     
  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Nina,

    Very glad you found your way to FDMB, and I'm sorry to hear about the very poor response you've had to date from the vets you've consulted. :bighug:

    Please can you let us know how much time has elapsed since you gave the most recent dose of insulin - in hours and minutes, please (so that we can better gauge how strongly the insulin may still be working at the moment and when the dose is likely to wear off).


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  17. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Hi guys, I see some familiar names here, Nina is actually a friend of mine - she’s my best friends sister in law. She posted today on fb about her cat having diabetes and I messaged her right away and gave her a link to this site. I don’t have much experience with this insulin type unfortunately and I also have a 1 year old keeping me very busy right now, but I knew you guys would help! I will be following along and helping any way I can. I will also give her Frosty’s glucometer, but it’s the one for pets and not humans, but it’s a start. Looking forward to catching up on your posts and I really hope everyone is staying healthy and safe.
     
  18. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Hello Nina! I agree with everyone else, we need to help you find a vet who will prescribe Prozinc or Lantus. Lantus is expensive in the US but we can help you purchase from Canada at a much better price. In the meantime you need to be aware of the rules of Novolin and how to keep Charlie safe.

    Here's some extra information for you when you're ready:

    Spreadsheet Instructions (if it's too confusing we can have a mod set it up for you)
    Signature Instructions

    Novolin Notes:

    Novolin hits hard and fast in the system and doesn't last very long in felines, making it not ideal. When looking for a vet (and perhaps you can look around and see if you have an AAHA-accredited vet, there's not very many, only about 15% of clinics in the US) you want to show them the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats, which states that only Prozinc or Lantus/Levermir is appropriate for felines. This will help you to find a vet that works with you and won't argue about using the wrong kind of insulin.

    Back to Novolin. The protocol is to test the BG, feed, wait 60 minutes, then inject. Food needs to already be "on board" with Novolin. We also don't recommend giving ANY insulin if BG is below 250 when using Novolin. After injecting, you want to provide a "mini meal" of their regular food every hour for about 4 to 5 hours, or until you know when the BG starts to rise again. This applies for both AM and PM shots. It's not ideal for a caregiver, which is just another reason not to use Novolin. When you are doing it regularly, it would be best if you could at least get a test in 1 hour after shooting, to make sure the BG isn't dropping too much.

    Below is a shopping list for you for a hometesting kit and an emergency kit. With Charlie's low numbers, I strongly recommend getting them ASAP. Also please do not switch his food to low-carb just yet, there are a lot of elements in play and if Charlie is currently on a higher-carb food, switching it to low-carb will lower his BG even more, which we don't want at the moment, with evidence of hypoglycemia.

    Hometesting Kit:

    Hometesting Tips and Tricks
    ReliOn Prime glucometer - $9
    ReliOn Prime test strips - $18 for 100
    ReliOn Lancets 26 G (or 28 if unavailable) - $1-2 for 100
    ReliOn Lancing Device (optional) - $5
    Travel-size Vaseline - $1
    Neosporin Ointment + Pain Relief (ointment only, NOT cream) - $6
    Cotton Pads (optional) - $2
    Rice Sock or Pill bottle w/ warm water (optional) - homemade

    You can use any kind of human meter, however the one listed above is Walmart brand and has the cheapest strips available. Same goes for lancets. You do not need a lancing device if you prefer to poke freehand, it's just personal preference. Vaseline is for helping the ear to bead up, neosporin is for helping the ear to heal/prevent bruising after the poke. Just a little dab of each. Cotton pads are optional, some people like to use them as backing so not to poke themselves, then to hold the ear a moment after to prevent bruising and stop bleeding. You can use a paper towel or your fingers if you prefer. Rice socks can be used in the microwave a few seconds to heat up and rub on the ear to draw the blood to the ear; it can also be used as backing when poking the ear. A pill bottle with warm water in it is another alternative to warm the ear, whichever thing you prefer to use.

    Hypo Kit Supplies:

    Hypo Kit Toolbox
    Karo Syrup - $3
    Ketone Test Strips (Ketostix) - $6
    A few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Marinated Morsels/Sliced in Gravy/Grilled in Gravy varieties - $0.60 each (these are your medium-carb cans)
    A few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers/Medleys Tuscany/Medleys Gravy in Sauce varieties - $0.60 each (these are your high-carb cans)

    Medium Carb is 11-15%
    High Carb is 16%+

    You can also search through the catinfo chart while you're at the store to check which cans available are the ones you need. They don't HAVE to be Fancy Feast but they're fairly easy to find.
     
  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Ana it’s lovely to see you. How are you?
    So glad you were able to send Nina here!
     
  20. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    @JanetNJ lives very close, I think.

    Nice to see you, Ana. :bighug:
     
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  21. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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  22. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Nina, when was the last dose of insulin given?
    How many hours ago?
     
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  23. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Also, could you remove the 911 sign now please Nina now that Charlie his improved?. Thanks :)
     
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  24. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    I gave Charlie a little less than 1 unit (vet said 2) around 6pm. That was before I read that this type of insulin isn’t good for felines. He is laying on top of me now licking my face and purring. He hasn’t done that in a while. I’m have tremendous hope especially because he has tremendous fight.
     
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  25. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

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    Dec 8, 2020
    Of course, i am sorry i am new to this. This was my first post today. How do I do that?
     
  26. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    How many hours ago did you give the last dose of insulin? I live in Australia so 6 pm means nothing to me.
     
  27. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

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    Dec 8, 2020
    Oh I’m sorry!!! Almost 4 hours ago
     
  28. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Ok thanks. The insulin will still be working in his system so you need to make sure he is eating plenty for you over the next several hours. Don’t fill him up with big meals, just frequent snacks.
    How much has he eaten since you gave the last dose ( the last 4 hours)?
    Did you feed him then wait an hour before giving the dose?
     
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  29. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

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    Dec 8, 2020
    Figured it out!
     
  30. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Nina, are you able to answer the questions about the food Charlie has eaten in the last 4 hours in post 28 please?:)
     
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  31. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Nina , I live in Lyndhurst N.J.
    I go to Carlstadt Animal Hosp
    413 Hackensack St
    Carlstadt
    201-939-1332
    I see Dr Sass , a woman, been going to her for many many years
    Dr Beeber and Dr Pla are the owners but they are not there that often
    They are good but I prefer Dr Sass.
    If you call in the morning ask for Christine to make an appt
    You can tell her Diane Martin gave you their name. Tell her I'm Tyler's Mom
    They know me very well


    When Tyler was first diagnosed she gave me Vetsulin,
    After awhile I switched to Lantus
    It is very expensive here so most of us buy it from Canada
    She is a wonderful vet, when she gave me dosing advice
    which she got from her associate I didn't like what he told
    her on how to dose.


    I took every ones advice here about dosing
    She's very easy to work with, when I told her I bought
    Lantus from members here whose kitties have passed she was
    fine with it


    We have a Supply closet here and I do see 2 members selling
    Lantus at great prices, if you wanted to get them quicker
    I'll post the link below.
    You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings, they don't sell them .
    I buy mine from ADW Diabetes. You will need the doctor to write a script for them.
    You can call them and they will ask you who your get iscetc
    Oh wait just get a script and you can buy them at Walmart


    Carlstadt Animal Hosp has very reasonable prices.
    If you do decide to call them most likely she will come out and talk to you
    I'm not sure if they are letting anyone in yet, I haven't had to go for awhile.
    She's very nice.
    They are also open on Saturdays
    Certain days open until 7 and 8 PM
    She doesn't work on Wednesdays
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  32. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
  33. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
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  34. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
  35. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    About the cost of lantus most of us order from Marks Marine in Canada
    We buy the 5 pack of the Lantus Solorstar Pens
    They should last you for about a year depending on how many units you are
    shooting.
    We don't shoot using the pen because you can only increase or decrease by
    1 hole unit.
    So we use our U-100 syringes with half unit markings , stick it in the grey
    rubber stopper in the pen and draw the insulin from there.
    We use the half unit syringes because we increase or decrease by 0.25 units
    at a time.
     
  36. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    https://rxcanada4less.com Marks Marine pharmacy

    Here is the link for Canada






    Lantus Solostar Cartridges 5x3ml per box (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 15 ml $159.99 USD
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Lantus Solostar PEN CAN (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) *single pen open box* Brand 100iu/ml one pen 3 ml $49.99 USD
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Lantus Solostar PENS 5x3ml per box (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 15 ml $164.99 USD
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Lantus VIAL Insulin (10ml per vial) (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 10 ml $110.99 USD


    Like I said you are better off buying the 5 pack of cartridges or the 5 pack of pens
    They will last you way over a year
    After your vet writes the first script you won't ever need another script.
    Call them and will tell you what to do
    They are very nice people

    Oh when you buy the pens they will have an expiration date on them
    Most likely 2022 or 2023 by now.
    Put them in the frig , a middle shelf
    As long as you don't puncture them they will be good until the expiration date
    So you are actually saving a ton of money
     
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  37. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    @JanetNJ
    Hi Janet Nina went to a vet in Teaneck ,not good
    I gave her the name of my vet
    Where do you go
    Thanks Janet
     
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  38. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Nina anything else you need to know just ask.
    Looking at Charlie's pic now just breaks my heart
     
  39. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Thank you so so so much for that information!!! I am going to call! I Bought a blood Glucose reader from chewie.com , the alpha track. It won’t get here until Friday. Is there any human type blood glucose readings that I can get in the meantime? If so, What is the best brand?
     
  40. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Thank you so so so much for that information!!! I am going to call! I Bought a blood Glucose reader from chewie.com , the alpha track. It won’t get here until Friday. Is there any human type blood glucose readings that I can get in the meantime? If so, What is the best brand?
     
  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I live in lower bergen county and use Rutherford Animal Hospital.... It's right off rt 3. Ask for Dr Tancredi. They have a lot of vets but she's the best. Ask for either ProZinc insulin or lantus. ProZinc I order from chewy.com... Lantus many here but from Marks Marine pharmacy in Canada or get a decent price using perscription discount codes. They are an expensive vet but good.

    What was m his number at diagnosis? Starting at 2 units was irresponsible. The recommended starting dose is 1 unit. That insulin is terrible. Twin Oaks is good for spaying stray cats but I don't go there for regular treatment (I have had lots of strays spayed and neutered there. They do that will.... But sometimes even forget to clip the ear. I wouldn't go there for regular care.).
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  42. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Oh! I know dr Sass! She used to work in Rutherford Animal Hospital. I think she's the one that helped take care of My sick kitten. She's really nice. That kitten is now five and doing great.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Any blood meter that takes a 0.3-0.5 blood sample.

    I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
     
  44. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Nina,

    A very popular meter with members here is Walmart's Relion Prime (or the Relion Premier). The meter is less than $10 and the test strips are probably the cheapest ones going at c. $18 for 100.

    When you're at Walmart, also pick up some 26 or 28 gauge lancets (for doing the ear poke) and some urine ketone test strips (ketone monitoring is a general safety precaution, especially in cats of unclear diabetic status).

    Next item is some Neosporin OINTMENT with pain relief. It makes testing easier as it helps the blood to bead up into a little droplet instead of wicking into the fur (not the cream - doesn't work). If they don't have the Neosporin ointment then Vaseline is a good alternative.

    It's recommended to pick up a few cans of the following foods for your hypo kit (higher carb items used if needed to bring low numbers back up to safe range):

    * Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy (20% carbs)
    * Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy (15%)
    * Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - Turkey Feast in Gravy (15%)
    * Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy (15%)

    Also:

    * Temptations Treats (c. 30% carbs)

    I'm assuming from your posts last night that you have plenty of karo in the house.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  45. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    I have the alpha track if you wanna come get it from me today.
     
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  46. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I also want to assure you that while diabetes is really overwhelming in the beginning, it's not a death sentence and they can live long healthy lives. My cat was diagnosed 4.5 years ago.
     
  47. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Hey guys, so Nina is gonna take the cat to a friend who’s a vet and try to get either ProZinc or Lantus script. Tonight after my daughter goes to bed I’m gonna go over to her place and show them how to test blood sugar and make sure they know how to inject insulin correctly. I really appreciate everyone’s advice! Hopefully once we have him on the right kind of insulin we can start getting his numbers under control. I’ll got to Walmart and pick up the ReliOn meter but I’ll also bring her my AT meter so that she has a back up. We will post the blood sugar results tonight and update you on the kind of insulin she's gonna be using. i really hope we can get him under control!
     
  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm so glad that Nina has you to help her, Ana. :)

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  49. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Thank you so much! And thank you everyone! We will keep everyone posted!!!! please stay safe and well!
     
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    You guys too, Nina. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  51. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    She's lucky to have you helping!
     
  52. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Morning Janet, yep Dr Sass did work there, , I would go to Rutherford Animal also, then she left and I was seeing Dr Patrone

    Then found out Dr Berber sold RAH , and opened up Carlstadt , He asked Dr
    Sass to join him. I then went to her .
    Dr Beeber still goes to RAH , once a week I think. Corporate bought it.
    I'm sure he still must have a part of it or some type of agreement.
    Who knows.
     
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  53. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    In all the years I have gone there I only had dr Beeber once... He treated my hamster almost 30 years ago. Lol. Dr Petrone is good. She removed a cancerous mass off CC'S leg this past summer. She also diagnosed CC with diabetes, although she wasn't too up on diabetes treatment at the time. Very nice bedside manner though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  54. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Good to “see” you, Janet! Thanks for the info. I told Nina to consider taking him to IM at Oradel animal hospital if all else fails, but I appreciate all the local recs! That’s the only good hospital I know up there. I grew up in River Edge but my childhood cat was pretty healthy so we didn’t really take him to the vet much, lol. I hope her friend who is a vet is willing to listen and work with us. Anyway, I’m so glad CC is doing well still! Amazing. I always wonder about the kitties who were around back in 2018 when I used to come here. I know a few have passed on. But yeah, it’s my turn to pay forward all the things I learned here
     
  55. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I used to see Beeber when I had my cat Jake ,that was a long time ago
    I agree with you about Dr Petrine.
    I did have to take Tyler there last year because he had stuff coming out of his
    eyes , I saw Dr Tancredi , I did like her.
     
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  56. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2019
    Dr. Pomerantz at Franklin Lakes Animal Hospital. Entire staff is fantastic. We went through two practices before we found Dr. P. (recommendation of our pet sitter) Great practice. He worked with us through to Zoot!'s remission.
     
  57. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Hello everyone! Just wanted to give an update on Charlie. I am picking him up from the vet within the next hour. The new vet is wonderful! He prescribed prozinc and different syringes. Charlie has been responding well. He is going back to the same vet tomorrow to get more fluids. The vet said that he has a lot of sugar in his urine and that could be a factor for the seizures. So tomorrow he will have the catheter again in the IV for fluids. I have been in contact with Ana throughout the day keeping her in the loop. Please everybody keep Charlie in your hearts tonight! I strongly believe he will get through this tough time.
     
  58. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2019
    Glad you found a vet you like! That is so important. Hope Charlie does well tonight!
     
  59. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Hi everyone. Since Charlie has been home he is having full blown seizures. He has been convulsing with his mouth open almost as if he looks to sneeze And drooling. His body has been convulsing so bad that he completely goes in the air. The vet explain he might have a seizure tonight due to the switch but it is much worse than his previous seizures. He ate a can of fancy feast. 2 minutes later he had his first seizure since being home. He had another one 13 minutes later. And then another one 45 minutes later and had another one immediately after that one while drooling a lot. They only last about 7-11 seconds, i have been timing and journaling his everything he does now. These seizures however are much Shorter than previously but more “violent”. Every time he come out of one he eats a few mouthfuls of fancy feast and drinks some water. Please, if anyone has some advice
     
  60. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I have never heard of a cat having seizures from swapping insulins or from having too much sugar in his urine.
    Have you given him any honey or Karo? Rub some on his gums please!
     
  61. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Yes, i have Karo. I have been rubbing it on his gums after every seizure. Is that too much?
     
  62. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I am surprised it is not helping.
    Did the new vet give insulin? how long ago? and how much?

    Is there an ER vet you can take him to now? He really needs vet care urgently.
     
  63. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Do you have the glucose meter with you to take a reading of the blood glucose?
     
  64. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Nina, are you still there?
     
  65. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Yes, the vet gave new insulin 6 hours ago. 2 units of prozinc every 12 hours. The closest to be is a bit far. But Charlie already had an appointment to go back tomorrow morning for more monitoring
     
  66. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I think 2 units is far too much for him after what happened yesterday.
    Do you have the meter to test the blood sugar with you?
     
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  67. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Nina I am wondering if something else might be going on with Charlie.
    If you are not able to get a BG reading to establish if he is hypo or not, I really think you should take him to the ER even if it is a bit of a drive away. Take the food and Karo with you.
    He needs vet attention now, tomorrow might be too late.

    It is not normal for a cat who has switched insulins to have a seizure.....unless from a hypo.
     
  68. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    Unfortunately, some of my family members work nights and need to borrow cars. I do not have a way of getting there. I have sent an email to the vet of the log and videos of the recent episodes. She just replied saying that she most certain that. the blood sugar is low. She said that he had the same exact seizure there while he was being examined. They gave me the fancy feast gravy at the vet so he is eating it now like a champ and drinking water. I’m just so confused and trying to keep him as comfortable as possible
     
  69. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Did Ana manage to get the meter to you?
     
  70. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    I got home from the vet pretty late at night and she live an hour + more away from me. She also has a family so I didn’t want her to come so late on that type of drive. She is coming tomorrow
     
  71. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Do you have the meter to test him.....can you answer this please?
    I would continue to feed him and rub Karo on his gums. The insulin can work for 12 hours.
    I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT GIVE HIM ANY MORE INSULIN AT THE MOMENT...PLEASE DO NOT GIVE HIM A DOSE IN THE MORNING. Cats that have had hypos, especially symptomatic hypos are very sensitive to insulin.

    Can you answer the question about the meter please?
    If you don’t have one yet, can Ana come over and test him?
     
  72. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Can your husband drive over and get the meter? It is really important we find out what the blood sugar is, so we can try and help Charlie.
    This is not something that can be left til the morning
     
  73. Nina.Felz

    Nina.Felz New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2020
    I have already replied to that message. We do not have a car, as i mentioned, a family member has our car. As i said, he is doing fine right now.
     
  74. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Oh I forgot you don’t have a car! Sorry!:confused:

    Well as you can’t take him anywhere or go out and get the meter, I think we have to assume he is having a hypo and keep feeding him and rubbing Karo on his gums to try and bring him up high enough that the seizures stop.

    Did you read the post I wrote above about not giving any more insulin for now?
    Nina would you mind posting every so often and keeping us informed as to how Charlie is please? We worry a lot about our kitties. I will be around for the next 6 hours.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
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  75. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Did the vet test the cat's blood glucose after the seizure she saw?

    After you get a meter tomorrow, if your cat has a seizure, immediately test his blood glucose before he eats anything.
     
  76. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    How is Charlie going Nina?
     
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  77. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Omg why is he still on 2 units??? Don't give any more insulin until you are home testing please!! He is being overdosed!!!

    He may be overly sensitive to insulin for several days. I wouldn't give any insulin for a few days and just learn to test. Then start over at half of a unit of he's above normal.

    I just don't understand why this vet told you to continue with two units when clearly that was too much and double the recommend starting dose. WTF
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
  78. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2019
    Nina, if you need help/support, please let me know. I am in Closter.
     
  79. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Hi guys, just catching up now. To be honest, I am also worried that something else might be going on that is not related to the diabetes or insulin. I will bring her the meter today no matter what. Nina said at the vet the blood sugar was 500, I wonder if this was a bounce from him going too low the night before. Either way, if he has more seizures tonight we will be able to test him and see what is really going on. I was hoping since he was at the vet and being monitored he would be ok for the night, but I realize now i should have brought the meter last night. I’ll try to pick up a meter from Walmart and also bring my AT2. Keep us posted on how he’s doing, Nina
     
  80. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    I’m guessing because they switched the insulin, and because he was 500 at the vet, but it could have been a bounce
     
  81. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Plus there's also the possibility of vet stress temporarily elevating numbers.

    I hope Charlie is OK.

    Ana, if you're going to Walmart maybe you might also be able to pick up some ketone test strips (assuming Nina doesn't already have any). If Charlie needs to skip a few cycles while his BG status is being determined it's a wise safety precaution to check he's ketone-free.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  82. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    At the vet they checked snd he had a lot of ketones. So maybe that’s why he’s seizing... he’s getting IV fluids today so hopefully that will help flush them out. We are gonna be monitoring his sugar tonight so we will see what’s going on.
     
  83. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thank goodness they caught the ketones!

    Quick heads-up: They need to make sure that he's not in DKA before he can come home. If he is in DKA he'll need intensive hospital treatment to restore normal metabolic function. (Fingers and paws crossed they caught the ketosis soon enough.) Helpful info:

    Ketones, DKA and Ketone Meters

    Ketosis typically occurs in the following circumstances:

    Not enough insulin + not enough food + infection/inflammation or other systemic stressor
    It's important to ask the vets whether they've checked for any infection/inflammation present (and to get treatment for any issue uncovered). Common culprits are UTIs or dental issues but that's not an exhaustive list.

    Ketosis can make a cat feel really nauseated. It would be a good idea for Nina to ask for some anti-nausea meds (Cerenia or ondansetron) and an appetite stimulant to take home, just in case Charlie might need a little help in the eating department while he's convalescing. Getting enough food and insulin (at a safe dose!) are critical to recovery and prevention of relapse.


    Mogs
    .
     
  84. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    He seems to be eating well and hasn’t thrown up. His only symptom is the seizures, which is why I think the vet wanted to see them back again today for more IV fluids. Nina said they lowered the dose to 1 unit, and we will start testing tonight to see if the dose is still too high or just right. One advantage of proZinc over lantus is that I believe proZinc doesn’t stay in their system as long as Lantus does? I would have to review the proZinc guidelines as I never used this insulin with my cat.
     
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  85. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Been following this post, that poor kitty, I pray he's going to be alright.
    My heart sank when I read how many seizures he had last night♥:bighug::bighug:
     
  86. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Very glad to hear Charlie's eating OK. That's huge.

    I've not used Prozinc either, Ana, but you're correct that it's not a depot insulin. I've seen posts by experienced Prozinc users advising that the dose duration is c.10-14 hours.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  87. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ana & Frosty (GA) likes this.
  88. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Ana did you pick up the ketone strips
     
  89. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    That's the recommended starting dose and with having ketones I wouldn't go lower unless testing shows its too much.
     
  90. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Thanks neighbor :bighug::cat:
     
  91. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    He’s still at the vet, I’m home with my daughter right now waiting for my husband to come home. Then I’ll go out to get supplies. You mean urine ketone strips? I used to have a blood ketone meter because I couldn’t really catch Frosty in the litter box since I was working, but I gave away everything after Frosty died. I’ll see if they have it at Walmart, but I’m not sure if Nina is gonna be able to use them or not. I def wanna pick up the ReliOn meter, and she actually said she received the AT2 meter in the mail today, so either way we should be at least able to get some info.
     
  92. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm in the UK so haven't a clue whether Walmart do ketone meters, Ana.

    Whether Nina opts for a BBK meter or urine ketone strips, now that it's known that Charlie is ketone-prone he will need daily monitoring for safety, at least for the time being.

    Like you, I got a BBK meter. Strips are pricey, but I think a meter is a really good investment because you can check ketones on demand, and also because ketones may be picked up a bit sooner than in the urine.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  93. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    The vets really need to establish whether the seizures are from a hypo or another cause.
    And I am really surprised they let him come home with a lot of ketones. I do have to question whether the vet knows much about feline diabetes.

    If there are a lot of ketones in the urine, the insulin dose shouldn’t be lowered unless the data is saying the BG is low, but with the seizures, it’s a catch 22. That’s why they need to establish the cause of the seizures. If it’s from another cause, they can probably give him some phenobarbital to control the seizures. And also blood work to see if it is progressing to DKA.
     
  94. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Right, I agree, but the issue for an extensive Workup is $$$. My dog has seizures and the MRI cost is $4000 (he has a brain tumor). Plus this vet isn’t in a teaching hospital, so they likely don’t have access to any imaging. The vet did see the seizures and says it’s diabetes related. Nina also said the vet agrees that the 500 BG was a bounce, and she was actually giving her good tips about checking blood sugar (warming the ear, etc) at home, so she’s actually FOR home testing, which I feel is rare for a vet, so to me it seems to me she is well versed in DM compared to many others. However, I’m not there and am just getting the info from Nina, so I can’t say for sure. I think once we start home test we will know more. They are also checking all the values while he is at the hospital today. Nina said she was told his numbers are better and he is responding to treatment, I don’t have the exact details but I’ll find out more. I agree it’s a catch 22 with the insulin dose. But I think if ketones are decreasing and we test tonight we will know if he’s going low or not. I think we are on the right track but we were starting off with a disadvantage because he was on the wrong insulin and we have no idea what it was doing to his sugars.
     
  95. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I’m so glad you are there to be able to help and advise Ana.
    Once they can do home testing that will make things much clearer. If Nina needs help setting up a SS @Bandit's Mom will help.
    If he’s still seizing and the BGs are not low, then it could be epilepsy (for example). But it is strange that it started with the insulin and does suggest that it could be related to the diabetes.
    I’m sure they are very worried, and they are lucky to have you.
    Sending many vines for improvement and a full recovery.
     
  96. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Please keep us updated Ana, I'm so thankful Nina has you there to help her :bighug::bighug:
     
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  97. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    I agree, if the seizures don’t go away I will suggest that they take him to Oradell Animal Hospital, which would have imaging, but of course only if they can afford it. The only reason we did the MRI for my dog (twice) is because we have insurance for him. Otherwise we probably would have just treated with medication and hoped for the best. Potentially if seizures don’t go away with normal BG, they could just start him on seizure medication and see how he does. I figured we would get some numbers and then contact the vet. I hope they’re doing a curve while he’s there too, they probably are. Thanks everyone for your help! We will keep you posted.
     
  98. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Oradell is really expensive. I think blue pearl might be a little more reasonable if you are looking for an emergency place.
     
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  99. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    I know, I mean if she wants a full workup. If not, I would probably try to work with her current vet.
     
  100. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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