Shadow PMPS 308 +2 338 +4 408 +6 470

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Christina Marie, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Christina Marie

    Christina Marie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    We've been at 5 units Lantus for several months now. Is his dose too high? Why are his numbers going up during his cycle instead of down?! Strictly on FF pate and Tiki Cat, freeze dried treats inbetween with the occasional canned tuna
     
  2. katy and mo

    katy and mo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Hi there!

    How many units did Shadow start on when he was first diagnosed? My boy is currently on 3.5 units (started on 2 units) and will probably need to go up towards 4 soonish. 5 units is higher than what most kitties need but some kitties need more than others.

    Have you read about the different dosing methods? https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...8-250-11-288-post-bounce.238449/#post-2677931
    I don't usually give advice on dosing but from what I have learnt here, if your kitty is not getting lower numbers on an increased dose (for Shadow it would be his 5 units) then it is time to go up a dose eg to 5.25-5.5 units. I'm sure some more experienced people can give you some more thorough advice on this but looking at his spreadsheet, that's what I would think would be the next step.

    In terms of the numbers going up, my boy's does that too. I would like to know the reason for it also.

    Take care :)
     
  3. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    welcome christina and shadow! :bighug:
    i can’t give dosing advice, but when i look at your spreadsheet i only see data going back to the beginning of this month. do you have any more that you could fill in?
    folks here are pretty data driven, so additional data helps them to formulate dosing advice.
    also some additional tests during the cycle would be helpful if you can do them.
    i’m tagging @Wendy&Neko who are very knowledgeable about higher dose kitties.

    eta: also i just noticed that you’ve been shooting at times without getting a BG and was wondering why? you should test before administering insulin. this is to make sure shadow is high enough to shoot safely.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  4. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Hello Christina and Shadow. If you haven't read the yellow starred Sticky Notes at the top of the forum, I strongly recommend you read them. Lots of good info in there.
    We determine how to change a cat's dose based on how low the dose is taking the cat. Those low point typically happen sometime in the middle of the cycle. With only preshot data and a couple or curves, I can just say that either his dose is too low, or it's too high. Sorry, not much help there, but we really need more data to be able to help you. Would you be able to consistently get a test before bed every night, as long as it's +2 or later? Also, any possibility of getting some spot tests during the day, even the weekend? After a couple of days of more data, we should be able to figure out which way to go with that dose. To answer the question about why his numbers went up, those were likely because of a bounce. I suspect he hit a number lower than he was used to sometime and the bounce or higher numbers followed. From the New to the Group Sticky Note, here is the description of what a bounce is:
    Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

    Here is the link to your last post here, for continuity: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/first-low-number-lantus.238070/
     
    Christina Marie likes this.
  5. Christina Marie

    Christina Marie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    We originally started on 3 units of Novolin 2x a day. When the vet was getting us up to almost 7 units 2x a day, I mentioned possibly switching over to Lantus. We did the switch and restarted at 3 units 2x a day. At that time, we had been going in to the vet's office every week to three weeks to check his blood sugars there. I just recently started doing home tests and not all of them are successful at this point. I just figured out the spread sheets this month, so that's why my data only goes back that far. I could upload some of the saved numbers in his meter, but they are so sporadic that I'm afraid that they probably wouldn't do much to help here. I can try to get more numbers throughout his cycles, but I am not always home preshot or inbetween doses (I work 10-13 hr shifts), so I have family members who help keep him fed and get his shots to him on time. Unfortunately they are not comfortable with testing him or even learning how to try, so there are often times when we don't get any numbers from him and they just keep an eye on him and monitor him for signs of low bg
     

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