Spicoli and Novolin pt 1

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Wesley and Spicoli, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    So we've had a better day today, but my vet wants to move up to 4u tonight. I'm hesitant because he's overall had 400pt+ drop for today.
    I'm expecting a lower preshot value and if continues dropping like this even at this dose, we are asking for a hypo.

    Dosing thoughts?
     
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  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Not sure an increase in dose is a good idea, given the low mid-cycle blue numbers that Spicoli gave you today.

    Get a +10 and/or a +11 if you can. To see what the duration of the insulin may be for Spicoli.
     
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  3. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    +11 is coming up in 30 mins. I'll update then.

    Edit: vet agreed not to increase.
     
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  4. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    +11- 406
     
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  5. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    So duration is ending sometime before that +11 time. Between the +8 and the +11. The pred is going to keep him higher too.

    Maybe do a +9 or +10 next cycle? Or next chance you get?

    You're doing a vet externship, if my memory serves me well. So not sure when you are able to test next. Vary the times if you can.
     
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  6. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    pred edit- Yeah, and even though it was accidental that he got into it, we also use it to treat his asthma. We do 10 days of 5mg tabs SID. So it is something we have been dealing with on and off...
    I'll do a correct curve tomorrow, or at least try my best. With finals and projects I tend to lose track of time. He is actually my final case study for my clinicals class.

    Vet Tech, but yes :) luckily I don't start until the 28th of next month so I will have plenty of down time for ~ 3 weeks once finals are over to try to get him tightly regulated.

    Thanks so much for all the advice so far!! I was good with ProZinc, but Novolin feels like an entirely different ballgame!
     
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  7. Bama Kitty Mom (AL)

    Bama Kitty Mom (AL) Member

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    Jul 16, 2018
    Novolin user here. Could be those blues caused a bounce given the high numbers he's had and the huge drops early in the cycle. Is there a difference in regular old Novolin N that I use and the Novolin 70/30 that is showing in your signature?
     
  8. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
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  9. Bama Kitty Mom (AL)

    Bama Kitty Mom (AL) Member

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    Jul 16, 2018
    Interesting chart. Looking at his SS I was shocked to see the sharp drops in the first two hours so the fast acting 30 must be doing that. Maybe his body is reacting to those sharp drops. Any reason why the vet wants him on the 70/30 as opposed to just the regular N?
     
  10. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    There's no telling. He probably has more experience with this insulin, though most of his diabetic patients are dogs... I might ask him about that the next time we talk.
     
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  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    The 70/30 insulin has a faster acting component and a slower acting component. So cats can often get a better duration from that type of insulin than the straight NPH insulins.

    Regular NPH insulins rarely last more than 6-8 hours. Great if you can do TID dosing, but most people's schedules and life responsibilities do not allow for that.

    That insulin chart that W.K. linked to only shows the human duration, not that for pets. Cats have a faster metabolism, so the insulins do not last that long in their bodies.

    So be sure to feed Spicoli at least 30 minutes before you give the 70/30 NPH insulin, so the food can start to be digested and get into the bloodstream before the fast acting component kicks into effect.
     
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  12. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    I only pulled and posted because it gave me a better understanding of the pharmacokinetic properties in general, by no means how they act in a cats body.
    Certainly not trying to mislead anyone.

    I could right now, but it wouldn't last long. In a month I'll be struggling to get home before he's due for insulin on a BID schedule.

    As for the feeding goes, that's getting tricky. Over 3 years he's been "trained" to get his shot while eating his dinner, and proves to be difficult otherwise. I mean so difficult that he has at times sent himself into a full on asthma attack.
     
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps split the food into 2 smaller portions? Portion #1 of food after the pre-shot BG test but before the shot of insulin, with the 2nd portion of the food with the insulin?
     
  14. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    Sometimes I wonder where my brain is.
    Wonderful idea! Will try this in the AM :)
     
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  15. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I'm a gardener, big time gardener. Took me years to think of putting my rain gauge in a pot of soil, so I could move it around as needed. I can claim this was a "senior moment" but I don't know about you. ;)
     
  16. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    Switching to Lantus tomorrow. He's been having a rough time with the Novolin 70/30.
     
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  17. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Hope Spicoli does better on the change to Lantus.
     
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  18. Wesley and Spicoli

    Wesley and Spicoli Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    You and me both :)
     
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