? Sudden diarrhea & high blood glucose, need advice.

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Cat Caregiver

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Last night Oliver had bad diarrhea everywhere. Oliver has been out of BLACK numbers for a long time but this morning BG=508 (BLACK) on the Alpha (which I used just to compare.) He was 427 on the ReliOn.

Should I feed him this morning? I know he needs to stay hydrated. He's been on Fancy Feast. I know from reading other threads, that diarrhea often means something bad.
 
I added all the food (Fancy Feast) Oliver eats ABOVE the corresponding date/times. He has 1 can meals every 6 hours and rings his bell for snacks in between and I list the approximate snack amounts.
 
I'm trying to think what could have upset his GI so suddenly. Yesterday I gave in and told "someone" that it was OK to give him a Royal Canin Glycobalance "cookie" (i.e., one kibble). Early in October I tried the RC for only one day and switched to FF. The only other time he had a bit of it was about two weeks ago when his BG dropped really low and I used it to raise his BG (although later I learned that FF Gravy Lovers would have been better).
 
Do you think hes having a reaction to switching food?
I'm trying to think what could have upset his GI so suddenly. Yesterday I gave in and told "someone" that it was OK to give him a Royal Canin Glycobalance "cookie" (i.e., one kibble). Early in October I tried the RC for only one day and switched to FF. The only other time he had a bit of it was about two weeks ago when his BG dropped really low and I used it to raise his BG (although later I learned that FF Gravy Lovers would have been better).
Hmmmm that could be it...all that fiber after having all wet food? But he seems to be reacting a little too much for it to be just that.
 
After a little investigation, turns out he had a little Friskies Pate (which to other cat eats) yesterday in addition to the RC (which I bet was more than just one "cookie"). Hopefully this explains what's happening.

He's never had diarrhea before. And I've never treated a cat with diarrhea before.
 
Hi CC,

It might be a GI upset but all the clinical signs you describe (vomiting, diarrhoea, elevated BG, hiding may indicate pain) suggest a trip ASAP to the vets is in order. I suggest asking your vet to include testing for pancreatitis as part of any diagnostic work-up, if only to rule it out:

* SNAP fPL - can be done on the spot and gives a yes/no/unclear result (bit like a pregnancy test).

* Spec fPL - blood sample needs to be sent out to IDEXX but it gives a numerical result indicative of severity.

Question: Am I correct in my understanding that that the urine testing is for ketones and Oliver has tested negative in the last few hours?

(Note: Might be a good idea to ask vet, as a safety precaution, to test blood sample for ketones as well because they can be detected in blood sooner than in the urine.)

Here's a link to the IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines. Even if Oliver tests negative there is very helpful information in this document on the treatments needed to help cats who are nauseated, vomiting and having difficulty eating. If it is pancreatitis then - in addition to any treatment given at the vet clinic - anti-nausea, appetite stimulant and pain meds are needed for home administration (enough for a couple of weeks' treatment).

Oliver just vomited a small amount (1 Tbs). Looks foamy white with a bit of Fancy Feast in it.
If he hadn't eaten for several hours then there may have been tummy acid build-up. That's a very common reason why a kitty might bring up foamy liquid vomitus. Eating the little bit of Fancy Feast might have been just enough to trigger the vomiting reflex.


Mogs
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We just left Oliver in good hands. Vet said his heart is the main problem right now. Left and right sides are beating at different rates. I asked if potassium could be out of wack (read that somewhere) and she seemed glad that I was tracking with her. (She also loved all the data on his spreadsheet--thanks to everyone at felinediabetes.com). He's very dehydrated (last meal was midnight). Hopefully the IV will correct his electrolytes and the Lantus (YES!!! Finally!) that she's starting him on will help. They will keep me updated. I'm sure other issues are being addressed but it's all a blur for me right now. We are praying that he turns around today. If not...doesn't look good.
 
We just left Oliver in good hands. Vet said his heart is the main problem right now. Left and right sides are beating at different rates. I asked if potassium could be out of wack (read that somewhere) and she seemed glad that I was tracking with her. (She also loved all the data on his spreadsheet--thanks to everyone at felinediabetes.com). He's very dehydrated (last meal was midnight). Hopefully the IV will correct his electrolytes and the Lantus (YES!!! Finally!) that she's starting him on will help. They will keep me updated. I'm sure other issues are being addressed but it's all a blur for me right now. We are praying that he turns around today. If not...doesn't look good.
Oh goodness I am glad you brought him in. I would have suggested a vet visit too, as that was beyond a simple case of the runs. I hope he's ok!
 
I just called for an update on Oliver. He's been in their hospital for the past 3 hours and is on Lantus and IV fluids. BG is down to 377 mg/dl. (Early this morning I took his BG at 508 and then just before taking him to the vet--just before noon--it was 538 both on AlphaTrak. I did not give Vetsulin this mornig.) They didn't think he'd had vomit or diarrhea since arriving but hasn't eaten anything, but that's understandable. The vet will update later and I'll ask about Oliver's heartbeat. Thank y'all so much for all the prayers!
 
Oliver is back home! Vet said his heart is beating normally again, his BG measured in at 108 (AlphaTrak). She wants us to measure every 2 hours until we shoot him with 1 Unit of Lantus at 1 am. Vet left the IV line in, wrapped. (I hope that he's OK with that tonight.) She wants him back tomorrow when they open. It will be a long night.
 
Now I'm confused.
+11=162 ReliOn so DON'T SHOOT per above advise.
+11=223 AlphaTrak so DO SHOOT per Vet's instruction: "give 1 unit Lantus if BG is 200+".

Ah, We still don't have a bg reference range especially for the Alphatraks, besides that when the Alphatracks read 70, is equivalent to very low alert bg for hypo.

The normal bg intervals, are all set for all the ordinary bg meters as your Relion.

If under 180, refers to the ordinary bg meters as your Relion.

Isn't it more cost cheaper in test strip costs, to only stick to using your Relion?
The majority of us use all those various ordinary meters, as I for instance have used the same 2 Bayer Contours' during the latest long 14 years.
 
I did not shoot at 1 am because I ran too low on Alpha strips and couldn't figure out whether the single Alpha reading at midnight met the vet's criterion to shoot.

Vet said to measure BG at 6, 8, and 10 pm with Alpha and to give 1 unit Lantus around 1-2 am if BG is 200+.

Relion gave 59@7pm, 67@8pm, 95@10pm, 123@11 pm, 162@midnight (which was 223@midnight on Alpha).

My daughter said that the vet said to look only at 6, 8, and 10 pm, none of which would have been the equivalent of 200+ on an Alpha (I think?) so we should not shoot.

At 5 am this morning Relion gave 258 so I know he needs Lantus. I'm returning him to the vet in two hours when they open.
 
Hi CC,

I'm afraid some of the advice you've received above is misleading.

Hi, on Relion never give any insulin if under 180.
Firstly, the FDMB 'no-shoot' limit for cats with little data when starting Lantus is 200 on a human meter. This is a set value intended to keep cats safe and no conversion is applicable to it.

I note that your vet has given you guidance not to give insulin if BG is less than 200 on an Alphatrak meter. By virtue of the fact that Alphatrak meters read higher than human meters, it is possible that your vet might consider it acceptable to have a lower no-shoot limit for readings taken on a human meter. However, because there is no direct conversion from 200 (AT) to an equivalent value on a human meter and your vet hasn't yet defined a human meter no-shoot limit for you to use, I suggest you either:

(a) go back to your vet and agree with them to use a no-shoot limit of 200 on your human meter (per FDMB guidelines) while you gather more data on how Oliver responds to Lantus.

(b) agree with your vet an alternative no-shoot limit for use with your human meter.

Note that the advice to "never give any insulin if under 180" is incorrect for a Lantus cat. The FDMB 200 no-shoot limit is only applicable for Lantus cats starting out treatment on this insulin because there isn't sufficient data available to determine the pattern of the individual cat's style of response so a conservative approach to dosing is needed in the initial stages. As treatment continues and a larger mass of data is gathered it is possible - indeed, desirable - to give Lantus at progressively lower (safe) preshot levels in order to keep blood glucose in a better and better range as the process of regulation goes on.

[ETA]
NB: There is a notable exception to the guideline not to administer any insulin to a cat with a preshot BG less than 200 (human meter) who doesn't yet have much data, and that is where the cat is prone to producing ketones or recovering from DKA. In such circumstances a token dose may need to be administered to prevent the cat from progressing - or relapsing - into DKA. In such circumstances dosing guidance should be sought from the vet.



@Cat Caregiver -

Please note that the calculator at the above link is intended either for converting mg/dL values to mmol/L values or for conversion of readings from a human meter that only returns whole blood values into plasma-equivalent values. It is not a tool for converting pet meter values into human meter values. For info, Relion Prime, Relion Premier and Alphatrak 2 meters are all calibrated to give plasma-equivalent readings.

Note that there is no simple mathematical formula for converting Alphatrak meter reading values to human meter values. Here is reliable information for you (originally posted by member Larry & Kitties):

There is really no way to convert a pet meter BG value to a human meter value.
The specs for both pet and human meters is +/- 20%.
Using a 100 point difference might be a OK for one BG value but as the BG value decreases the 100 point difference would be too great.
Because of the difference in glucose distribution in the different blood constituents,

The glucose is in both the serum and red-blood cells (RBC) themselves. However, the distribution of glucose is different between humans and cats (and dog too)1
In Humans 58% is in plasma/serum and 42% in RBCs
In cats 93% is in plasma/serum and 7% in RBCs

a % difference would be more appropriate. However, because of the +/- 20% accuracy there is realyy no good conversion method


Mogs
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And for further, it's Lantus, so definitely dose reduction to 0.5 U.
Follow the Lantus Protocol.
Start Very Low, Go Very Slow
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

The above advice is incorrect. Per the SLGS guidelines the dose should be reduced by 0.25 units, not 0.5 units, viz:

Starting Dose:
  • 1u BID if kitty is not on a wet/canned low carb diet
  • 0.5u BID if kitty has been switched to a wet/canned low carb diet
  • If the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration
  • Generally, shots are to be given 12 hours apart.
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
[Emphasis mine]​


Mogs
.
 
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