? Switching from vetsulin to prozinc: Part 4

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-to-prozinc-part-3.169838/page-2#post-1855583

I'm on to part 4, last thread was getting a little wordy.

 

Do you think that Smoky will drop any more today? He is still in the first half of cycle. I just gave him his lunch so that will raise his BG a little. I'm asking that question since he dropped a bit in 4 hours.Smoky has always been a little bit of a deep diver, at least he was on the vetsulin.

 

I'd test again at +6. Lunch will help. Teasel has done the same thing to me today and he'll be getting another ear poke shortly.

 

I tested him at +8, had some errands to run today. His BG was 179.

 

Looks good.

 

I decided not to go up to 2.25 or 2.5 units today. I had one of those " gut" feelings to go a little lower. I hope I didn't mess things up too much.

 

You didn't mess up anything, Lisa. Always go with your gut - he's your kitty. He comes around very well, responds quite predictably and doesn't bounce - all really good things in your favour.

 

Maybe Smoky could send some of those vibes to Teasel.

 

Makes me happy to see that some kitties actually respond as they should to ProZinc!

 

How can you tell when you need a new bottle of prozinc? Does the solution get cloudy looking? I'm asking because Smoky started on his vial on Nov 23 so about 6 and a half weeks ago.

 

Smoky PMPS was 252: Relion meter
300: AT2 meter
Again, just trying to establish a reference point. I'm not trying to compare meters. BG numbers are not too far off considering. Now, it's soon time for his pm shoot. I find myself looking at his SS and trying to figure out the right dose again.

 

PMPS is fairly close to AMPS and the AM dose of 2.1 u gave you two nice blues that weren't too low. You could try 2.25 u if you can test before bed.

 

I'm not sure if I can do a bedtime test tonight. Smoky is just finishing his dinner and I'm getting his shot around now. I have to go in to work extra early tomorrow so going to bed in two hours.
Maybe 2.1 since I can't test tonight.

 

Safe choice, Lisa.

 

Of course going in earlier means leaving sooner. I can get in an after work test around +7 or +8. The more data the better, right?

 

More data is always welcome!!!

 

Smoky was 180 for am reading.
I'm deciding between 2.1 and 2.25u for am shot. I have about 30 minutes to figure it out.

 

I'm a bit late checking in. What was your decision? I know you can get home earlier today.

 

I gave him the 2.1u for am. I'm running home for lunch later

 

That sounds good.

 

Is it a good thing if BG's are similar between AMPS and PMPS in the same day? If so, does this require a change in dosing? Also, if giving a dose halfway between 2 and 2.25 units, how much would that be?

 

Yes, Lisa, that's a really good thing. You don't have any mid cycle numbers for today so I suggest giving 2 u again tonight. Smoky might gone into some green but you have no way of knowing. If you can get a before bed test that will be good data. Are you at work tomorrow?

 

I am at work tomorrow, my normal schedule is Tues thru Sat. I'm home on Sunday and Monday. I gave Smoky 2.1 units tonight. I go in later on Saturdays so can get in a +3 test before bed.

 

a bottle of ProZinc should last 6 months in the refrigerator. If it goes bad, it will become cloudy. Mine bottle was good for 6 months.

 

Just checked smoky at +3 after pm shot and his BG was 47! Do I give low carb food or some high carb food? Also, when shld I check him again?

 

Some gravy off high carb - just a teaspoon or so. And retest in 20 'minutes.

That's a surprise!

 

I gave him some gravy, also posted another thread on health

 

Good. Looks like you have several people there to help. I have to sign off for tonight.

 

OK thanks Sue

 

Update for Smoky: AMPS 262, he definitely bounced this morning after dropping so low last night. See spreadsheet. I don't think it's a good idea to give him the 2 units again for am dose. Any suggestions?

 

No, I think 2 u is too much after that low, Lisa. He'll be more insulin sensitive for a bit because he's used up some (a lot) of his liver reserves in bouncing. I'd be conservative and give him 1.5 u, no more. You can always raise it over the next few cycles. Poor you - overnight tests and you have to work today.

Which meter did you measure those lows with?

 

Relion meter
Yep slept 4 hours.
I thought 1.5 units too. I'm so dumb that I left insulin out all night. put it back in fridge about 40 min ago hope it's still good

 

Here's what I think is going on. You're near/at a good range for Smoky and he's responding very well. He's overcome any residual glucose toxicity/insulin resistance he had from all the weeks of high numbers. This is tricky territory going forward and you have to be away at work all day.

• Dosing has to be more conservative and if a dose looks good, hold it at least 2 days.
• Any day that you can get a late afternoon test before his evening meal or at least one evening test, do so.
• Full or mini curve on a day off
• Keep a supply of high carb gravy style food on hand.
• Remember that he'll be extra sensitive to insulin after a very low number.

 

The insulin will be fine. I've left mine out of the fridge a few hours before with no ill effect. I get 2 months + out of a vial of ProZinc with Teasel's dosing. It lasts longer than Vetsulin.

Good call on the dose - you know what you're doing. I asked about which meter because I think in AT terms even though I use FS strips in my AT meter. That combo gives a higher number, like AT strips would. The hypo zone on a human meter is 50 and below.

 

Got to go, running late for work

 

How long can the prozinc stay out? I left it out since 8 pm the night before so 11 hours.

 

You're probably OK. If you find his numbers going up and staying higher that's a clue that the insulin might be less potent. The next several days will tell you.

 

Nice job last night, Lisa. He might be a little higher for a cycle or two if he bounces some. But how lovely that he is requiring less insulin.

 

Wow what numbers! Things are certainly looking up.

 

Smoky at 228 BG for PMPS. I gave him a reduced dose for am due to his hypo last night and subsequent bounce this morning. I'm thinking about what dose I shld give him for tonight.

 

I suggest keeping it at 1.5 u - 2 u again tonight just in case he's still insulin sensitive. You can always raise it tomorrow AM.

 

I'm so glad u said that Kris. My gut is telling me to give same dose of 1.5 units tonight. I was worried about him still recovering from last night

 

I think 1.5 u is a good dose in the aftermath of last night's excitement. I'm sure you'll want an uneventful evening/overnight.

 

Yep I slept less than 4 hours last night so need a good nights sleep.

 

I received my petsafe 5 meal auto feeder today. I'm tinkering with it now.

 

Now if I can just figure out how to get the battery cover off.

 

I guess I will have to take it to petsmart tomorrow and let them open battery compartment. Duh! now I know I'm really exhausted. I didn't think to look on the inside of feeder to open battery compartment.

 

Hey tiredness will do that! You definitely deserve a good nights sleep.

 

I think Smoky may still be in a bit of a bounce yet. I gave him 1.5u last night and he was 228. His BG was 274 for AMPS. I was thinking about giving him 1.75u for am shoot. I am home today to monitor and steer with food if necessary.
My question is if I give the higher dose will it cause him to continue bouncing? Should I just continue with the lower dose and wait a few cycles yet?

 

Late to the party, Lisa. Trying to get my 2017 SS up. I see you gave him 1.6 u. I think he'll be OK with that. It's hard to know how much to drop the dose after a hypo number and then how much/how slowly to raise it. All you can do is try things - being cautious, of course - log the data for future reference.

I had to decide how much to lower Teasel's dose after his PM no shot. Still a bit of a guessing game for me ...

 

Happy New Year!
I'm trying to get Smoky used to his pet feeder. I put half in his regular bowl and half in open compartment of feeder. He keeps going back and forth between the two.It will be interesting to see what he does later when the feeder turns to the next tray.
I ordered some u100 syringes in case I need to fine tune his doses later. Also, I printed out the conversion chart from FDMB.

 

Happy New year,Lisa! Here's hoping that Smoky continues to do well. He might do one of those kitty "popcorn" jumps when the feeder tray moves.

You'll find the U100 syringes very helpful - so much less guesswork when you're trying small fractions.

 

My cat goes to the feeder 10-15 minutes before it is slated to open and waits.

Happy New Year, Lisa. Hope it continues to be a good one for Smoky and his numbers!

 

Happy new Year, Sue!

 

Let us know how the feeder works! Happy New Year all.

 

He didn't move when the feeder turned, just stared at it. He doesn't like it too much but looks to see if there food in there. Smoky was 220 for PMPS so think I will just give him 1.5 u for tonight. Good idea or no?

 

Sounds good to me.

 

I'm a little puzzled this morning, Smoky's BG seems to be going up in the am but down at night. He had a hypo episode on Friday night, AMPS was 303 this morning. I gave him a lower dose since then, 1.5u but his numbers keep going up. Am I giving too much of a dose? I know it takes several cycles for a bounce to clear. I am home today to watch him.

 

I'm concerned his insulin which was left out for 11 hours on Friday night might have been affected. Or is he still just recovering from the hypo and bouncing yet?

 

Hard to know for sure, Lisa. Bounces have been known to go on for several cycles - Teasel's certainly do. I'd say that you should dose the 303 with something around 2 - 2.25 u as you have in the past. Go with 2 u if you're at work today or feel uneasy with a higher dose. If the numbers stay higher then I'd question the potency of the insulin. You'll need more data before you can draw that conclusion.

 

Thank Kris, was just about to draw up the dose. I thought I wld get in a +3, +6, and a +9 test in today. I think I will give him the two units and see how low he is dropping on that dose.

 

Good plan. Glad you're home to get that data. I really hope it's not the ProZinc because I know how beastly expensive it is.

 

About $125 for a 10 ml vial here in PA.
I hope not too as I only used about 3/4 of the vial so far. Keeping fingers crossed.

 

I pay that in Canadian dollars so I guess I get a break on the price given how low our dollar is compared to yours.

 

I agree it could still be a bounce. I hope it is not the insulin either. Data today should tell you if that is the case. Today's amps could also be the "Oh look, a squirrel" phenomenon. Maybe something happened overnight to raise his levels - a scare, more food later, less food, n uncomfortable BM - who knows. I wouldn't worry until it becomes a pattern. Yes, his amps were lower than pmps a few days ago, but not consistently.

 

Smoky dropped down from 303 in am to 174 at +3 and is eating his lunch now. Should I be worried? I'm guessing at least this means the insulin is still working.

 

I would be alert but not worried. He is likely to flatten out and surf - maybe you can encourage that with a small snack to slow the drop?

 

I just gave him a small snack of his low carb food, one ounce. I'll be checking him again in 2.5 hours so wld be a +9.

 

Smoky so far today: AMPS 303
+3: 174
+6: 134
+9: 151
PMPS: 167

 

Nice blues, Lisa. I've been out and just saw your post about him dropping a fair bit at +3. It seems the insulin is still good - that's a plus.

 

Yep, it's not cheap to treat our sugar babies. He dropped a little bit more at +6. I'm hoping he doesn't keep dropping for +9 test.

 

Smoky was 167 for PMPS so I think it would be good to give him less than 2 units. Back to 1.5 or maybe 1.75? I was leaning towards the 1.5 units.

 

I like the idea of 1.5, Lisa. What a nice blue surf today!

 

You're right. I never thought of it as a blue surf before.

 

I learned this terminology on here.

 

Smoky was 247 for AMPS but found him munching on some dry kibble my roommate forgot to pick up this morning.
I thought to give him 1.5u just in case numbers are food influenced. I'm not sure if I can come home and check him at lunch today.

 

Safety always. He'll come down again. Good that he has an appetite ...

 

I have left Callie's insulin out, about one overnight/ bottle. I haven't noticed any change in how it worked. We all do it at some time or another. My vet says to put it back in the fridge right after drawing it up and before giving the shot.

 

I try to put it back in fridge right away. I put it in a different spot in kitchen then I usually do. The prozinc seems to be working still so far.

 

Smoky was 213 last night and 347 AMPS !
Either he dived and bounced or the 1.5u was not enough of a dose. Give 2u for am shot?

 

You gave 2 u on 01/02 when AMPS was 303 and got the nice blues so I think you could try that again. Can you get a lunch time test?

He might still be a little wobbly in his responses since the hypo of a few days ago.

 

I gave him the two units for am.
I have meetings today so unlikely I can get in a lunch time test. That's why I only gave him the 2 units to keep him safe

 

OK don't want a repeat of last night and this morning. Smoky was 213 PMPS on Jan 3 so gave him 1.5u and he jumped to 347 for AMPS today. I gave him 2u for am shot and he dropped down to 222 for PMPS tonight. What dose do you suggest I give him for tonight?
I'm concerned if I give him 1.5u again he will be higher tomorrow morning.

 

I don't think 1.5 u is enough, Lisa. Something in the range of 2 to 2.25 u could work based on your SS.

 

I was thinking to give him 2 units for pm shot. I can do a before bed test today.

 

Sounds good!

 

There is one thing I don't understand though. Smoky has a very good appetite right now. He can eat 4 to 5 cans of FF each day. His BG numbers seem to have improved dramatically. He seems to be losing weight again though. He went from 8lbs 10 oz down to 8 lbs 6 oz recently.
He just had bloodwork redone when he had the fast breathing not long ago.
The vet said everything seemed normal.
Anyone have any ideas or experience with their kitties having trouble gaining weight ?

 

Were his thyroid levels done as part of that bloodwork during his breathing episode? Hyperthyroidism can increase hunger and cause weight loss. On the other hand, he might need more time in better BG numbers to make steady weight gains that hold and for his appetite to normalize.

 

He was tested for thyroid problems a few times over the past few months. All the tests came back normal. I thought that many 3 oz cans of food seemed a bit much. The vet said to give him more time, maybe another month.

 

Teasel eats almost 2 Friskies sized cans a day. They're 5.5 to 6 oz. He'd certainly eat more if he was free fed.

 

Will giving him that much food in one day hinder him from acquiring better BG numbers?

 

I don't think so. It's low carb food and they need more because they can't use what they eat as well as a non-diabetic cat. As they become regulated and stay in good numbers they need less food.

 

Smoky BG at 259 this morning. I think it would be a good idea to give him the same dose, 2 units, that I gave him last night.

 

Sounds good, especially when you aren't at home today.

 

I'm kind of wary since his hypo, call it shell shock, of giving higher doses.

 

I completely understand. You'll need several uneventful cycles before you start feeling more confident. Then you can save the (small) increases for a day off.

 

Smoky was 137 for PMPS down from BG of 259 in am. I can't give him 2 units again with those low numbers. Reduced dose of how much or no shot seems plausible?

 

I think I will skip his shot tonight and see how he is tonight and tomorrow morning.

 

You'd have to stall without feeding at least an hour I'd say but in the aftermath of the recent hypo a no shot is a less anxiety-provoking choice.

 

Agree. Nice that he is slowly dropping!