Tiger pmps 379 seeing a pattern

Deb and Tiger

Deb and Tiger

Member Since 2023
Libre will not give me a number this morning, just says HI

long night with low numbers. What to dose this morning? Please advise
 
Not sure what I am doing wrong in my posting? No response to my 911.
We went ahead and gave him his shot. I hope it was the right thing to do after the red numbers during the night.
 
Sorry no one responded. did you shoot?
What dosing method are you following? Did you cross check any of the libre numbers last night with a handheld meter? We find that sometimes the Libre reads lower than a handheld.
With an amps that high you can shoot the full dose.

What you're seeing with those fluctuations are bounces. From the Basic's sticky, its explained as:
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Yes I gave full shot., 30 minutes late.
I am using a libre but have no backup testing method.
All new to this, so scared.
Click to expand...
Its very scary at first (and sometimes still scary when you've been doing this a while :confused:) . Can you update your spreadsheet with the units you gave?

To get back on schedule, you can shoot 30 minutes early tonight or fifteen minutes early tonight and fifteen minutes early tomorrow morning.
 
I am so scared to shoot tonight. He is constantly going low at night. I stayed up with him all night and not sure I can do another night of this.
Updating ss now..

ty for replying.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
I am so scared to shoot tonight. He is constantly going low at night. I stayed up with him all night and not sure I can do another night of this.
Updating ss now..

ty for replying.
Click to expand...
I try not to worry about the next cycle too far in advance. We have enough anxiety in our lives...why add more :p
There are times when a reduced dose or skip happens because we have lives. Looking at the last time Tiger had greens, he bounced for a couple of days after. He may just do that again.
Tonight you will shoot 1.5 Units since her earned a reduction per SLGS last night.
 
Would you be willing to get a handheld meter and try home testing? You can pick one up at any pharmacy for humans along with some testing strips.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Or did you mean since I shot at 8:30 am, I shoot at 8:15 pm? Half asleep and old!
Click to expand...
On your spreadsheet it looks like you're using the spreadsheet for Alphatrak, but you're using a Libre right? That's a human meter isn't it? I could be wrong but I think someone needs to fix this for you. Only because some of the numbers show up different from pet meter to human meter. Like that bright green 60 would be a happy dark green on a human meter spreadsheet.

I know there's someone who is very good at helping people with spreadsheets but I don't remember who that is. Tagging @Wendy&Neko who can point you in the right direction :)
 
And btw, it will get easier. My husband was too scared to give Snickers her shot when all my this first started. He's got a bit of a needle phone. But now he can do it no problem. :)
 
Tagging @Bandit's Mom who is the spreadsheet whiz, not me.

My kitty was one of many that had blood sugar values the meter wouldn't read "Hi", back in the beginning. We called it the meter greeting you. :rolleyes: Angela posted the information on a bounce. It's an annoying, but perfectly normal reaction of their body to blood sugar values they aren't used to. He will get over it in time.

My hubby would shoot, but took a couple months before he would test. So the person who faints at the sight of blood (me) had to do it. My friends were totally amazed that I was testing Neko's blood for so long. If it helps, try singing to relax yourself. Trust me, you will get better at this. Thank goodness the Libre has come along since my time. It makes it so much easier for people new to feline diabetes.
 
Last edited:
Wendy&Neko said:
Tagging @Bandit's Mom who is the spreadsheet whiz, not me.

My kitty was one of many that had blood sugar values the meter wouldn't read "Hi", back in the beginning. We called it the meter greeting you. :rolleyes: Angela posted the information on a bounce. It's an annoying, but perfectly normal reaction of their body to blood sugar values they aren't used to. He will get over it in time.

My hubby would shoot, but took a couple months before he would test. So the person who faints at the sight of blood (me) had to do it at. My friends were totally amazed that I was testing Neko's blood for so long. If it helps, try singing to relax yourself. Trust me, you will get better at this. Thank goodness the Libre has come along since my time. It makes it so much easier for people new to feline diabetes.
Click to expand...
Ah! Bandit's Mom. Thank you. I knew you would know. I'll try to remember for the future :)
 
I posted today’s numbers. It was going along about normal but then jumped up a lot. That last reading was after eating a spoon of ff, his snack that he needs to keep tummy troubles in check. So this is all bounce? It’s making me crazy. I feel I am doing something wrong…
Hubby went to Walmart and got a ReliOn for a backup in extreme readings.
 
Snickers and Chrissy said:
On your spreadsheet it looks like you're using the spreadsheet for Alphatrak, but you're using a Libre right? That's a human meter isn't it? I could be wrong but I think someone needs to fix this for you. Only because some of the numbers show up different from pet meter to human meter. Like that bright green 60 would be a happy dark green on a human meter spreadsheet.

I know there's someone who is very good at helping people with spreadsheets but I don't remember who that is. Tagging @Wendy&Neko who can point you in the right direction :)
Click to expand...
Yes I am using the libre. It is a human meter, I don’t know any adjustments needed to be made?
Didn’t realize I am using the wrong ss.
 
Last edited:
Deb and Tiger said:
Yes I am using the libre. It is a human meter, I don’t know any adjustments needed to be made?
Didn’t realize I am using the wrong ss.
Click to expand...
Don't worry. Wendy tagged @Bandit's Mom to help with the spreadsheet. I don't know when she can get to it because of the holidays, but don't stress about it right now. Just keep recording the numbers like you've been doing and the rest will get sorted out.
 
Hi Deb,
Tiger is bouncing. It's perfectly normal for a newly diagnosed diabetic. It's extremely annoying to the caregiver :confused:
I'm glad that you're getting a handheld meter. It's good to always have a back up.
There are two templates for spreadsheets. You are using the template for a pet-based meter. There is another spreadsheet template for a human meter which the libre is. @Bandit's Mom can assistance to do this. She's in India so hopefully sleeping and dreaming of nice things at the moment.

Tigers dose going forward is 1.5units starting tonight.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
And to verify, we will give him 1.5 u tonight? I don’t think I can handle another scare tonight, especially with no sleep last night or today.
Click to expand...
The bouncing can really mess with the numbers for a while. I believe it was Angela who advised the 1.5 units, and I would follow their suggestion. :)
 
I see that now. It never dawned on me there were 2. I was just proud I got the one copied and working. Been many years since I have used spread sheets…lol

wonder what the difference is..

how long does it take for the bouncing to stop?. I feel like we have been nonstop bouncing since the start.

also, why are the lows always at night for us?

Ty both!
 
Deb and Tiger said:
was just proud I got the one
Click to expand...
You should be proud. Sending a virtual high five ;)

Deb and Tiger said:
wonder what the difference is..
Click to expand...
Pet meters run a little higher than human meters. On a human meter, the normal healthy BG is 50-100 whereas a pet meter is 68-150 (I think, it's been awhile since I used a pet meter).

Deb and Tiger said:
how long does it take for the bouncing to stop
Click to expand...
Every Cat is Different (ECID) but bounces usually last 3 days/6 cycles. The more time that our FD kitties spend in more normal numbers, the less they bounce. Bounces will be shortly and the blues and greens on the spreadsheet are longer.

There is a wealth of information on the The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!

Keep asking questions. The more you learn about FD and how Tiger responds to insulin and food, the less scary this all becomes :bighug:
 
Deb and Tiger said:
I see that now. It never dawned on me there were 2. I was just proud I got the one copied and working. Been many years since I have used spread sheets…lol

wonder what the difference is..

how long does it take for the bouncing to stop?. I feel like we have been nonstop bouncing since the start.

also, why are the lows always at night for us?

Ty both!
Click to expand...
I don't have a lot of experience with bounces, but I'm not sure there's a set length of time for them to clear. I think it usually takes a few cycles, but I think it can take longer or less depending on your cat. Sorry, I know that's probably not what you want to hear.

As for the lower numbers at night, that's actually super common! Many of our cats go lower at night. So you're not alone there, and it's totally normal.

Regarding the spreadsheets, you did really good setting one up! You should feel really good about taking that step. For now, it's ok if it's the one for the pet meter. If you want to try setting up the other one and transferring the numbers over you can, but please don't stress about it. You've got enough going on right now.

The main difference between the pet meter spreadsheet and the human meter is with the lower numbers. Human meters read lower than pet meters. So, for example, a 70 on a human meter might read as 90 on a pet meter. Or maybe a 92 or 95. It varies, but pet meters are always a little higher.

Because of this, the "take action" numbers are different depending on which meter you use. With human meters anything under 50 means your cat is dropping too low. But with pet meters it's anything under 68. On human meters like you have 50-99 is normal. On pet meters 68-99 is normal.

Does that help clarify the spreadsheet thing? I know it can be really confusing at first.

Edited to add that by "normal" I'm referring to the dark green numbers in the spreadsheet. Angela is right that technically with a pet meter most vets would consider up to 150 to be normal, more like 100 or 120 on a human meter.
 
Pmps is HI on libre, no number. We tried the reliOn but never got enough blood. So we quit as Tiger was getting more and more squiggly.
He has been more demanding of food tonight. Seems like he is starving. Caused by bounce?
Even though we were 30 mins late this morning, since he is so high, ok to shoot at regular time?
 
Hi, I have sent you a request for edit access to your SS. It will come to the gmail account associated with the SS. Check the spam folder as well since it sometimes goes straight there! :-)

Deb and Tiger said:
He has been more demanding of food tonight. Seems like he is starving. Caused by bounce?
Click to expand...
Yes, they can be hungrier and thirstier in higher numbers.

Deb and Tiger said:
Even though we were 30 mins late this morning, since he is so high, ok to shoot at regular time?
Click to expand...
Sorry no one responded on time. Yes, up to 30 mins here and there is okay, so you could have shot at your usual time even though you shot 30 mins late in the morning.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Pmps is HI on libre, no number. We tried the reliOn but never got enough blood. So we quit as Tiger was getting more and more squiggly.
He has been more demanding of food tonight. Seems like he is starving. Caused by bounce?
Even though we were 30 mins late this morning, since he is so high, ok to shoot at regular time?
Click to expand...
With the Relion, make sure you're holding the front edge of the test strip to the blood and not trying to place the blood on top of it. When you hold the edge to the blood, the strip kind of sucks it up. You'll see the little window in the strip fill up and then you'll know you're good.

It's getting late and I'm not sure I worded that well hopefully that makes sense. :)
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hi, I have sent you a request for edit access to your SS. It will come to the gmail account associated with the SS. Check the spam folder as well since it sometimes goes straight there! :)


Yes, they can be hungrier and thirstier in higher numbers.


Sorry no one responded on time. Yes, up to 30 mins here and there is okay, so you could have shot at your usual time even though you shot 30 mins late in the morning.
Click to expand...
Just saw the email, access granted. Ty for fixing it!
 
If you try testing with Reluon meter again this will help
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Changed the SS to the human meter format. The only difference are the ranges. For a human meter, normal range is 50-100 (dark green) and below 50 is low (lime green).
Click to expand...
Ty for fixing that!
So an according to the new ss, he was actually in the green yesterday early morning and did not earn a reduction. However the way he was falling, had we not gave him food, he would have still went low I do believe.
Since we lowered the dose already last night, I assumed we will stay at that 7 days. Hopefully I am right because we already shot this morning.
Ty Diane for that info, passing it to hubby to read!
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Since we lowered the dose already last night, I assumed we will stay at that 7 days. Hopefully I am right because we already shot this morning.
Ty Diane for that info, passing it to hubby to read!
Click to expand...
Hi Deb, yes you stay with the dose for 7 days with SLGS ,then re evaluate, but if Tiger drops under 90 you reduce by 0.25 units
You're welcome about the info :bighug: :cat:
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you try testing with Reluon meter again this will help
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Click to expand...
Just wanted to add to this that you can use a tiny bit of Vaseline rubbed on the ear before you poke. It helps the blood bead up and not get absorbed by their hair. I used to struggle and doing that really made it easy for me until I got used to it and didn't need it anymore.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Studying Tigers ss I think I see a pattern of hitting his low at the +5 - +6 times. Is this normal to see this?
Click to expand...
The "typical" nadir or low point in the cycle is around +6 with Lantus. With a large helping of ECID or each cat is different. And some cats will strive not to be consistent. Neko's typical Lantus low point or nadir was around 7-9 hours after the shot, but I spotted it everywhere from 3.5 hours to 13 hours later. That 13 hours later one means it happened after the following shot. In post 29, Angela gave you a link to the The Basics: New to the Group? Start here! Sticky Note, which has more detail. It's actually a good idea to read all the yellow starred sticky notes at the top of the forum. We try to put the answers to the most common questions there.
 
Thanks. I did read it, a couple times in fact, lol. There is so much info here, it’s hard to retain it all. I was hopeful it was at least a good sign of leveling out. I have been trying to read all the good info here, it takes time to actually understand all of it. Bit of overload. But it’s the only way to help my baby .

thanks for the quick response!
 
The learning curve is steep, feel free to keep asking questions. We all remember what it was like in the beginning. And I still read those Sticky Notes over again and again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top