Trying to get #'s in normals at NADIR ..

Hi so if you havent read my post in the Main welcome .. warning its long..I have edited out parts that have been discussed with other members who have been super helpful

First off glad there is somewhere that has people who are going thru this and have knowledge... My cat Vengeance who is now 7 years old was just diagnosed last friday.. hes been at the vets till today and they decided to let him come home.. long story coming up btw this might jump all over the place I type as I think and its not always linear...sorry

So he was 7 in July I bottle raised him from 5 days old hes an indoor cat I have 2 indoor cats the other has had no health problems, Vengeance/Venge has had plenty hes had a couple of upper respiratory infections over the years but had been good for the last 2 or 3 until Feb of this year when he had a urinary blockage/UTI which ended up with me taking him into the vet for an emergency procedure at 4am on a Sat.. he was in the hospital then for 4 days then got sent home.. previously they were both eating Grain free supposed to be good cat food (whole earth farms) so then the vet said no he needs to be on the prescp urinary and weight management food being at that time he was 16.8lbs and they wanted him to loose weight also.. he flat out refused to eat any of the precrip foods they had me buy he would rather have starved so I got to reading and read that a full wet diet is better for crystals than most prescrip cat foods (they prescribed the dry and wet of the science diet foods he would not touch either after 3 days of not eating I was getting worried) So I started giving him the fancy feast and he ate it up and same with little shebas ..so they cats were both on full wet diets.. jump to Aug and Vengeance starts acting weird again so 7pm on a Sat emergency visit to vet he is semi blocked again... soo they give me some meds give him antibiotics urethra relaxers and a steroid and send him home this time being hes not fully blocked like the last and didnt need to be put to sleep and oddly he is sitting on my bed with me and all of a sudden he pees on my bed out of no where and there sitting on the bed is a crystal... so I call vets on monday they say if nothing else is wrong no need to bring him in.. he does pee blood here and there for a few days after which they say is normal after passing a crystal..

SOO we jump to last week

So over the last few months he had been loosing weight and I had assumed it was due to the new food he was on I had him on a mix of purina pro urinary and weight management and had cut down the amount of food I was giving I am a sucker for the cat beg give me some wet food also ..... but he had always been a larger cat all of his life I weighted him at home and he was down to 11.8 lbs which to me he looks like skin and bones at that weight.. well over the last month or so he kept coughing which I thought were hair balls that never come up being he does over groom his belly since the first blockage... but it kept getting more and more frequent so I was like NO I need to take him in get check.. with all the time he had been back and forth they never mentioned any breathing issues.. well last wends they tell me he he has mild asthma.. WHAT??? where since when??? so they choose to give him a shot of Depo-medrol for the inflammation to help with the cough( no blood work thinking its astma and they had done blood work in Aug)..they tell me that he will prob get very thirsty and drink and pee a lot for the next few days to a week..well he is gorging on water then later I will hear him Barf and I go in and its just a pile of water on the floor.. me hoping and reading online its possible side effect of the med I am think ok will give him a day or so and see how he acts.. well he does it 4 times from wends till 5am Friday morning ( I have severe insomnia so I usually dont go to bed till like 5 am or so and hes my constant companion and shadow..) and hes just not acting right so I make the decision to bring him back in Friday morning.. get in the office and see the vet and tell them about his throwing up being sluggish and etc and we decide best to do blood work.. vet comes back and say .. HE's DIABETIC and Severely dehydrated and his glucose is over 600 his urine and blood are full of ketones and that Im very lucky I brought him in.. that they need to put him on a Insulin drip and Iv ASAP.. so they put him on that and I go back later that day to check on him and hes just out of it doesnt know who I am etc so Im scared of course hes in the cage with cone and IVs in him etc... the issue from what I have read is that the Depo-medrol causes havoc in diabetic cats and can send their systems into overdrive.. so Sat I go see him hes still lethargic refuses to eat or drink they he is still on IV and insulin drip trying to equalize him.. didnt see him sunday but vet says hes same I go in monday and hes the same but they have dropped his lvls down to 385 Tues hes a little better acting and levels are getting better had gotten him down to 285 but they had seen a small amount of blood in his urine which scared them and me that he might have a blockage starting due to being so dehydrated (he has 2 fountains in the house so he has access to tons of water and I only give the cats purified bottle water being we have hard water where I live and I had read that can cause crystals and stones so I switched them to purified bottled water a few months back) they vet is worried about him not eating and them force feeding him.. so we discuss me taking him home.. Tues hes like a diff cat hes like MY cat again he is loving on me they let me have a exam room with him for an hour and hes walking around and being nosey loving on me.. but I try and get him to eat and he retches at any food... So they vet says they will up the anti nausea meds and that IF his levels are semi ok today and his electrolytes etc are up that I can bring him home to see if he will eat.. they call me this morning and tell me that they want to try sending him home... that he did eat some of his hard kibble (purina proplan urinary) and that one of the vet techs got him to eat some of it out of his hand also... and that he was acting with energy not lethargic as he had been and no blood in urine they had only seen 2 small amounts on Monday and none since.. so they show me how to give injections ( which I had watched a ton of vids since last fri and many years ago I had a friend who had to give injections to her cat so I had seen it done)

So they have prescribed him Vetsulin 10ml 3 units twice daily for now that he is allowed to freerange eat being they want some food back in him and will figure out a diet once things get figure out being that the Depo will still be messing with his system for a while his levels when I left today were 380s but they said its going to be hard to get him leveled out while the depo is in his system and that if hes acting normal and eating etc that we will talk next week...

the above is all from my initial posting

After discussing with some of the members seems my vet starting him out at 3 was way too much ..
So being that his Nadir is looking to be about +3 +4 hrs from my Spreadsheet.. is he just dropping that fast.. he is now taken off the high carb kibble so hes not getting any between meal snacks right now (I have some low carb kibble on the way to just leave out a tiny bit) I am waiting now to check BG again at +4 to see if its going to drop below 60( 1f he does I will see if he will eat some of the high carb kibble) seems to bottom out from +3 till +5/6 should I try and stay the course at the what I am guessing at 2.75 being my syringes dont have 1/2 marks(I ordered some new syringes today that have 1/2 dose marks) or try the next dose at 2.5ish and see if his Nadir tonight drops low.. or leave him at the 2.75 for a few more days and just have to keep an eye on the +3 till+6 BG .. still 100% new to this up and downs lol and when to change etc I appreciate all that I have been helped with just thought would see if any other people using Vetsulin had thoughts being they might not have been reading my hundred posts in the Welcome/main lol

ok just tested at hour after the 60 and hes at 52 so guess its dropping hes also staying at the water fountain drinking and yesterday he didnt drink very much.. so guess I will have to give some high carb kibble and check again in 15-30 dont want him to drop lower ... UGHH ( could he be in some kinda of withdrawal from the high carb kibble being left out all the time? and him snacking to keep it up between meals) but hes acting normal was just scratching on the scratching post 10 mins ago... I dont think I will ever understand this stuff.. (now he looks nappy but he is usually napping this time of day) gave him .75Ml of karo syrup and small handfull of the high carb kibble which he is eating like crack... will test him again in 30 mins... Ughh

@Critter Mom
@JanetNJ

 

Good catch! He earned another reduction last night. Personally I'd go down to 2 and see what happens. I feel like his dose was started too high.

 

OK will try that I guess at 2 it wont dip as far but wont lower it as much ??? just took a +9 (even thou at +3 I caught the possible hypo it was 171 thats the lowest its been at this amount of time +.. would have figured shot up after the hypo and kibble.. so will try 2 and check him thru the night at +1 +3 +5 ( then maybe sleep) hopefully better numbers. thanks

 

I feel like you've been doing a lot of steering of the numbers, and we are seeing bouncing. If the 2 units isn't enough after a couple days, try 2.25.

 

Steering the numbers due to changes in diet(taking away the high carb kibble?) and could of changes in accidentally going UP not down the one day? and having to bring him back up from the low with Syrup and high carb kibble again after taking him off it thou when I give him the syrup its .75 ml and the kibble might be 50 pieces..

@JanetNJ

Thanks trying to learn all the ups and downs and critter mom had asked me in my other thread about his eating and etc and testing for ketones so if you want to read that to get an idea.. also thank so much.

 

OK so now his #'s for the last 4 hrs have been in the 170s..... at +9 171 AT pmps 172 ( tested twice once paw once ear) stalled 30 and its 178 goin to feed and no shoot .. what should I shoot tomorrow? weird after him going edge of hypo today hes never had steady #s for this amount of time since DX...
@JanetNJ @Critter Mom

Thanks

 

OK +1 since no shoot being he had stayed at 170s for 5+ hrs hes now at 232

 

His bg went up to 267 at +2

 

I assume you Skipped last night? That's fine. Once he got to 200 you could have given him a reduced shot, but it's ok. Starting this morning id try 2 or 2.25 u. I think the 2.75 was too much. You said you recently changed his diet? Then that's probably why the need for less insulin.

 

Yeah I took him off the high carb kibble he was getting 2/3 days ago that I let him free range on a small amout..I have only given him a small amount each time he has gotten near hypo to jump him back up. His next injection is at 1230pm I am going to test him in 10 mins that will be +4hrs from his normal pmas shot time. @JanetNJ

 

Oh wow you do 12 30 am/pm? Getting of the kibble makes a big difference.

 

@JanetNJ yeah I have bad insomnia so I usually go to bed 5-6am sleep till lunch.. just did his +4 and hes up to 299 and I skipped an hour so seems like it went from going up 32 or so points an hour to 16 maybe but no idea on if the math is linear never seems to be with this... so should I give him a small dose now being it will be 7 hrs till his next dose time or let it ride out.. just worried about it jumping super high while I am asleep I dont think its going to go down... If I try and give him some of the FF or etc in a few minutes is that a good or bad thing will it cause his BG to raise/lower or not effect it?? still trying to work out the math and science on all this..

also @Critter Mom had mentioned ketones earlier today (his were very high when they made the DX he was in ketoacidosis when I brought him in and what they were trying to bring down while he was in the animal hospital) I made a posting on it in my normal thread.

.I ordered a Ketone meter will be here sat but running to store now to buy strips to have when I do his AMPS ( which is really PMPS for me lol)

Ill try him with 2 today and see how it goes when its time for his shot at 1Pm.

Thanks so much

 

I would wait until the next shot. Otherwise your times are messed up. Feed when and how you normally do.