Weenie dosing thread

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by MelanieAndJosh, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Hello!

    I'm starting a thread for Weenie as now that the UTI seems to finally be on the way out, our numbers are coming down. Celebrating the wins and now at the same time starting to worry about dosing! It's always something, isn't it? We are currently at a 1U thin/skinny shot.

    We are close to a month on low carb wet food (2%) as well, with pumpkin added to deal with some constipation problems (very well controlled now). We also add B12 methyl to deal with what I believe are neuropathy issues. We still get 100ML of SQ fluids as well (so many daily stabbings for this poor girl)

    Of possible note is that she was on exogenous steroids for several months back in 2017 for acute pancreatitis.

    Will be doing as much testing as possible over the next few days to gather data and looking for any advice on dosing.

    Thanks so much for your help!

    Melanie and Josh
     
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  2. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Cat tax:

    E7F03C7B-2945-4C1C-95A4-2E6B1358D5FE.jpeg
     
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  3. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    135 at PMPS... Nervous but will go with the 1U on the low side of the mark
     
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  4. SashaV

    SashaV Member

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    Apr 25, 2020
    I'm new, so..I might be wrong.
    Blue is great, and personally I would have done the same with a skinny shot.

    I'm quite sure @Deb & Wink will ask you to test more. Spread the tests out +2, +6 one day, +3, +8 the other day, you get the point. And in the pmps cycle too.
    Yeah you'll have to get up in the middle of the night to test, its wonderful! Do you feel the irony? :D:D:D
    However, cats drop lower during the night cycles so its very important to throw in some tests. Just look at my ss, I went up for a test and the stuuuuuupid cat was green close to neon green :eek: I didn't get more sleep that night..
    Thankfully Deb was here! And she'll probably be here in a few hours, so hang in there, and do some testing :D

    Cute kitty!!!!! You sure she's not a lion?! She looks huge from that angle :nailbiting:

    I'll jump to bed, but if you get nervous or test her to be low post in the health forum :bighug:
     
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  5. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Ended up going close to .5 - need to get different needles for sure now.

    At right around +4 we saw a reading of 98
     
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  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    If you are able to, please test Weenie at +6. Most cats on Prozinc have their lowest BG levels, the nadir, around that time, give or take an hour or two.
    That 90 for this mornings AM cycle 8/13/20 earned Weenie an automatic 0.25U dose reduction. So the dose should have been dropped to 0.75U for a maximum. Perfectly ok to drop the insulin dose down even a bit more, to the 0.5U dose that you gave her.

    It's very important when numbers get low like this, that you keep the SS updated. Would you please put that 0.5U dose and the +4 test of 98 on the SS please?

    Suggested a "kitty diaper" in your Feline Health thread, to help with the nighttime urinary incontinence.

    We use the notation of an S after the insulin dose amount to indicate a skinny dose. For example, 1S.
    For a "fat" dose, that gets noted on the SS as a F after the insulin dose amount. For example, 1F.

    It's possible to use U100 insulin needles with a U40 insulin like Prozinc. There is a conversion chart, but basically it's 2.5 times the U40 dose that you would draw up, measure in the U100 syringe. Doses still get written on the SS as if you had drawn up the dose in a U40 syringe. Makes it easier for those of us helping you, but a bit confusing for you.

    Another option is to use caliper so measure the dose. There is a thread that talks about that. Look in the Health Links/FAQS forum Index Sticky at the top of the forum. Pretty sure it's there somewhere.
     
  7. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Thanks!!

    So here we are with some updates. Spreadsheet is updated but I'll add some context here:

    During the day yesterday - AMPS 157, +5 107 and + 6 118. She eats small servings about 7-8 times per day so these numbers are 2 hours fasted at best. But looked good.

    PMPS was 156. Checked her at midnight (+6) and she was 150. This number was well fasted, almost 5 hours.

    Wake up this morning and AMPS is 151. Last three numbers 150 so of course I'm worried the meter is broken. Just checked her again at +3 (2 hours fasted) and I got 90 on the AT2 and 62 on a human meter.

    I'm thinking of sticking with the .5 dosage for now - we had some U100 needles but someone (cough Melanie) doesn't believe in my hoarding of supplies and returned our box of U100s. More on the way now.

    I'll check again at +5 (2 hours fasted).


    Beyond that, her appetite is down a hair but still eating well. Could be related to the much better numbers. BMs looking good. Would love to think about getting her off the SQ fluids but probably not a great idea.
     
  8. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    The only BG test that we like to see without a food influence, is the pre-shot test. So no worries on the other tests having some food influence, as that is expected. No need to fast Weenie for any of her other tests. You can make notes on the SS in the Remarks column, to note when you fed Weenie. The SS can hold all sorts of data, not just the insulin dose and the BG tests.

    The reason for the no food within 2 hours of the pre-shot test, is so that you don't give insulin into what might end up being a much lower BG level at insulin onset (food raises BG levels, insulin lowers it). If you are there to monitor, even shooting insulin into a food influenced BG number can be done if needed. Sometimes, it's more important to get your cat to eat, when they want to eat.

    That BG of 90 on 8/15/20 AM cycle at +3 earned Weenie another 0.25U dose reduction. If you think you can measure the 0.25U dose, or close to it, that is my recommendation for the insulin dose for the next cycle.
     
  9. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Thank you!

    U-100 needles arrived. We saw another 98 today (need to update the spreadsheet) so we will go down to .25 tonight. Thanks again
     
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  10. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Well just to keep things interesting, we are at 108 PMPS. edit: Going to wait and re-test and then depending will go < .2u now that we have the U100 needles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  11. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    122 after a 30 minute wait/30 mins after food. Gave < .20
     
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  12. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Weenie is still flirting with those low numbers I see.

    Keeping you on your "testing" toes.
    upload_2020-8-16_21-13-41.jpeg
     
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  13. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    YIKES! Well slight mishap this morning. Shot with the U100 and did the 1 mark instead of the half mark. Was on the slim side so assume < 0.4U.

    Figure no problem right? Tested it a little over +4 and came back with a 76! Freaked us out. She ate and we seem fine but that was scary.

    So now I can't wait to see how low her PMPS number is and worry about that next.

    Any advice on what number to draw the line at and NOT shoot?

    Thanks as always!
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, that is one drawback to using U100 syringes with a U40 insulin. That you forget to adjust the U40 insulin amount as you draw it up in the U100 syringe.

    That is an automatic dose reduction, the 76 BG level you got at +4 today AM cycle 8/17/20.
    So 0.2U for this evening's shot? If you haven't given it already that is.
     
  15. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    I was able to find some U100 with 1/2 markings, they should be here in a few days.

    Looking decent today, and I think the B12 is really starting to help. She was pretty much not standing at all but in the last few days has started to stand and today took some steps. Fingers crossed!

    She has started to get a little fussy on her food (I and Love and You - Oh my Cod!). Opened one of the cans I grabbed as a test (Nulo) and she ate it right up. I think she is going to need a little variety.
     
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  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Wink was a dry food addict, founding member and official spokescat for DFAA, Dry Food Addicts Anonymous. Once I got Wink to eat the wet food, there was only 1 flavor he really wanted, the Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets Feast. I was afraid he would refuse to eat that at some point and need to go on insulin again. So I tried other foods with him and he did eventually eat other flavors of the Fancy Feast pates and the Friskies pates. Even a little Tiki Cat now and then.

    And, he never backslid into needing insulin again, once he went OTJ.
     
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  17. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Oh this cat is driving us batty! 146 AMPS, 61 at +4! She ate, acting fine. Will retest soon.

    The good news is she went to the box to poop last night!! First time in a long time that she got up on her own. I came upstairs to test her at +4 and she was standing up, I think getting ready to go pee. I airlifted her to the box and see went immediately. So that's a good sign!

    U100 with 1/2 markings won't be here for a few more days, so if she gets any shot tonight, I'll make sure it is definitely under .5 for a < .2U dose.
     
  18. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Back up to 69 after eating.

    I'm going to say this was related to the decrease in food intake - I noticed it but it didn't seem too drastic. I offered her some FF and she went totally crazy. I'm going to have to do a better job of rotation to keep her interested I guess.
     
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  19. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    129 PMPS, gave her < .2U

    Gave her a little of her younger brothers raw food for the first time - she really liked it. Will try to introduce some and see how it goes.
     
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  20. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Baby steps Melanie and Josh, Weenie is making lots of baby steps in her recovery.
    As you have seen, a cat that is not eating as well can drop into pretty low numbers. Glad Weenie ate for you so her BG levels came back up.

    Yes, trying different foods can be very helpful, as well as rotating the flavors.
    My civie (non-diabetic) doesn't really care which food or flavor she gets, as she likes them all. But we stick to more of the poultry and beef flavors and leave the fish based Tiki Cat for a mid-day snack, and the Bonito Flakes for a before bedtime snack. She doesn't let me forget. ;)
     
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  21. MelanieAndJosh

    MelanieAndJosh Member

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    Jul 19, 2020
    Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

    We are now down to about as low of a dose as I can go without learning the single drop dose. Using a U100, I have the plunger on the low side of the final line. U100 with 1/2 marks still not here, hoping soon.

    This morning we did AMPS of 130 and saw 88 at +3. Appetite is lower than before but still OK - weight has not started to come back down. Drinking water really well. Standing up way more often, good BMs still.

    I took her off the pumpkin as I think maybe it was impacting her willingness to eat. Fiber being added to food along with her B12.

    Will stick with the very low dosage and see what comes next.
     
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  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Looks like you tried the drop dose for this PM cycle, 8/23/20.

    Need breeds necessity, and learning how to do that tiny dose.
    Good job Melanie and Josh!
     
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