Wynk, new approach?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Cara and Wynken (GA), Jan 21, 2016.

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  1. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    I am thinking about reducing his insulin. These higher values might be due to me shooting too much insulin, correct?
    Today I had to take another cat to the vet, and I spoke with one of the new veterinarians at the clinic, who happened to be the vet who treated the UTI last week. I asked her about high blood sugar being due to the infection still being present. She said if I was worried I could bring him in tomorrow for a cysto- centesis and we could culture the urine and take a look for blood, etc. so I will take him in to check that. And I think I will ask for them to take his blood and check for other things as well. Just to make sure there's nothing going on medically with him. His last full blood panel was in October, I think.

    When I mentioned that he had been staying in high numbers with some occasional low pre-shot values she immediately said that the insulin dose might be too high. I did not show her the spreadsheet because I didn't have my iPad with me. I may show her when I take him in tomorrow for the testing.

    Just wondering what everyone thinks about this idea…

    I've been fooling with the electronic feeder tonight a little bit and I must be getting old because I just can't figure it out. :banghead:
     
  2. Bring your IPad and show her your spreadsheet. I don't think the dose is too high myself. But see what they think.
    Wynk doesn't seem to be bouncing because the numbers are going too low. I think the bounces are just due to them going lower than what is body has been used to seeing. And on the cycles where he is giving you a low preshot, that is just "long duration". Prozinc can last, according to the manufacturer, last 10-14 hours. I think that Wynk and several other cats here are proving it can last 14 hours, sometimes.

    I'm one who thinks that longer than 12 hours is exactly what I'd want to see. I'll take 14 hours duration over 10 hours duration every cycle of the week.

    But see what the vets think, and do your best to make them explain "why" before leaving the office. No matter what a vet thinks, they owe it to a caregiver to ensure they explain "what and why" in order to earn their paycheck and your patronage.
     
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  3. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Thanks Carl. Great suggestion on making sure she explains what to do so that I totally understand it.

    The last few months have been confusing to me maybe because of more data. I used to occasionally do a curve but otherwise just blindly shoot the same dose.

    I have to believe that he's better off now… But I am certainly more confused. :confused:
     
  4. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    I believe you'll usually see high and flat when the insulin is too high. I could be wrong (still getting my first cup of coffee!). You don't see that,, though, which leads me to believe that may not be the issue.
     
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  5. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    And there he goes, with two shootable preshots in a row - nice yellows. Just to prove none of us are sure and only Wynken hears this music he is dancing to. Regardless, they are lovely to see and I hope they continue and gradually drop.

    One theory might be that the bounce broke and he has decided those blues aren't so bad. Or he likes the lower dose. Regardless, when you have to work the next day and can't be around to monitor, shootable preshots are a gift.
     
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  6. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Rachel, you are right. I actually used the words "high all the time" when I was talking to the vet yesterday about the UTI he had. But you're right... He isn't high and flat... And he may be experiencing nadir's that I'm just not there to measure. So maybe I gave her the wrong picture… Which I will correct today when I show her the spreadsheet. While he gets his urine checked. :)

    All the red and blue was making me crazy... Too erratic! But ~~maybe~~ he is leveling out... :nailbiting:
     
  7. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Sue,
    I know, right?? It's like he knows I talked to the vet about how his sugar was looking... and he's like "Nuh-UH!!" :p

    I suspect she will question why the dose is all over the place (based on the PS value). She is not his regular vet, but she was available the day he started to block and saw him for the UTI. And she HAS helped me with my other cats... I like her approach. We have never discussed DM, so maybe she can teach me something. I tend to get notions... and do what I think is right, then find out later I was wrong. :(
     
  8. One tip. Don't be surprised to hear her say "you're testing too much". A lot of vets seem to say that after seeing our spreadsheets. ;-)
     
  9. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Hmmm. How do you respond when they say that? I will probably feel defensive.
     
  10. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2015
    Hi Cara I don't think you have to say anything defensive - just say you are frustrated in trying to get him regulated and knowing how the insulin is acting is the only way you know how to do that
     
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  11. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Carol - Yes, that is certainly true! Will try that.

    I love my veterinarians, and I think that they respect me… Although I also think that they believe I am a little bit crazy because of so many cats, and I spend much of my life researching things to help my kitties online. I made one of my veterinarians aware of a novel treatment for feline leukemia, which she ordered for me and I used on a kitten very successfully several years ago. That vet is also working with me (at my request) to supplement the thyroid of the kitty who was treated with radioactive iodine to reduce her thyroid… my kitty became hypothyroid after the I-131. My vet would never have done that without my online research and my recommendation to ADD thyroid after thyroid treatment. I am convinced that I am saving that cat's kidneys. (Yay)

    I think the entire veterinary industry is starting to be tired of people availing themselves of online info. Some of the info IS bad… So I guess I understand. There's another vet at that clinic that when I mentioned learning about something online she said "Oh yeah, Dr Google!" I tried to not take it personally. :)

    This FDMB has been a wonderful (and comforting!) resource for me and my sugarbaby, and I will get defensive if it gets disparaged...
     
  12. Don't feel defensive. I think we test for two primary reasons.
    1- to get an understanding of what a dose of insulin does over a 12 hour period and try to make sense of things.
    2- more importantly, for safety. There are several great examples of that on Wynk's SS. Look at the PMPS on Jan. 1st. That morning, you gave Wynk 2.4u. A perfectly safe dose. Ask the vet what might have happened if you hadn't been testing that cycle. You wouldn't have known that the numbers dropped and continued to drop for 10 hours. Nor would you have known that at PMPS, his BG was perfectly "normal". And giving him 2.4u when his BG was normal could have resulted in a trip to the ER, or much worse. It could have been fatal.
    It is no different than a parent having to give insulin to an infant child. The child can't communicate how it feels, can't tell you if is experiencing high or low BG. Would anyone give an infant insulin without knowing what it's BG was?

    Yes, sometimes it would appear we "test too much". But only in hindsight. A day with six tests where all the numbers are high and flat looks like a half dozen wasted test strips. But only after the fact. But even if the strips seem wasted, they aren't really. A high flat cycle can just mean the kitty was bouncing all day from a low the day before. A low you didn't catch on your meter. And that data, that knowledge is not "wasted". It is useful.
     
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  13. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Excellent points, Carl! :bighug:
    Thanks. I am headed home to get him in 10 minutes to take him for his urinalysis. Hopefully there will be something in his bladder!

    Armed with what you guys have said, I feel more confident and happy to talk to her about his glucose. :D
     
  14. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Apr 21, 2012
    Well… I feel kind of silly. I took him in so they could take his urine. And I did not see the doctor!

    I was all ready with my iPad, with the spreadsheet… And the vet tech came to get him and took him to the back.

    I asked the ladies at the front desk about the doctor and they said "oh this was just a technician appointment to draw his urine". Grrrr. Ok. I guess that is what we talked about when I scheduled it the day before… I told them to phone the back and let them know to do an entire blood panel as well, just in case. It had been about five months since his last complete blood work up.

    When they brought him back out to me, I told the technician that I had a spreadsheet with his insulin doses and blood glucose and that I would like to share it with the doctor. I told her I would email it to both his regular doctor and this new vet as well. And she said "OK I'll tell her."

    Pretty anti-climatic! :facepalm:
     
  15. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Oh well, you didn't have to use those arguments about home testing you can already prepared. So, just keep doing what you are doing and we will help. Amps this morning looks very nice!
     
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