Wynken - sugar just TOO high...

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Cara and Wynken (GA), Jan 17, 2016.

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  1. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Hello everyone, I haven't been able to post for a while… Because I have had too many other things going on in my life. Some of you know that I have several aging kitties, and they have required much more of my attention than Wynken has this past week. I also rescued a little declawed kitty on January 5, and took care of her until I was able to place her in a good home… Which thankfully happened yesterday morning. :cat:

    Today I would like to ask for help looking at his spreadsheet, and trying to figure out what the hell is going on... He had sudden onset of urinary issues last Monday morning and was taken to the vet Monday at lunchtime. The only treatment he is had was the Convenia injection that he got Monday and I put D mannose on his food (allowing slightly more to eat, slightly higher carb with a little extra water on the food too) every day for several days. The UTI issue seemed to resolve very quickly, within 2 days... and I put him back on his diet yesterday morning.

    My concern now is that the insulin just doesn't seem to be doing anything. I ran out and got a new vial from the vet yesterday, and started using it last night. And yet today's first check is just as bad as yesterday's. :(

    I just have to get his glucose regulated! What do I do? Increase the dose?
     
  2. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    It may take a while for him to settle back into his routine levels. I'd follow the guidelines for ProZinc/PZI, making small increases per the guidelines until he starts getting good numbers again.
    Also, check the secondary monitoring tools, as sometimes those may give you clues about how he is dong, too.
     
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  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    How wonderful you found a home for that sweet kitty. Sorry the others are having a harder time.

    I agree his spreadsheet is confusing, Cara. Sometimes he does fine with a dose and the next time, at the same level, he flattens out. I see no logical explanation for yesterday's am cycle. Are you sure the UTI has resolved?

    I think I'd raise the dose. Maybe 1.8 for 250+ and 2.2 for 350+? I see no reason for reducing - no bounces or low numbers.
     
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  4. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I am so glad you found a home for that precious little girl, gosh, she pulled on my heart strings but, DH firmly and loudly said "NO" I can't tell you how many times I went back to look at her sweet little face.

    Hopefully, Wynken will settle into a dose and start responding to the insuin. It is very frustrating for sure. Hang in there. :bighug:
     
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  5. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Thanks all. I will increase the dose per Sue and the protocol. Discouraging.... since we lowered it a little not that long ago (when 2.4u got him too low).
    Cara
     
  6. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Cara, it's a dance and sometimes we go back and forth between one dose that makes them too low and another dose that doesn't take them low enough. One thing I learned from this dance: yesterday was then, today is now. It's a real mind bender when a week ago the dose took them down and now doesn't but we have to remember to be in the here and now. That's what I learned. Be in the "now" It was very hard for me too. I was resistant to raising the dose but it doesn't mean that our kitties are further from the goal. It means they need more NOW. And that said, they can surely go lower when their numbers come down.
     
  7. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    BJM - He always seems ok in the pink and red (and even black) numbers. He sleeps a lot, but so does his sister & when I wake him (to check BG) he is alert, happy & curious/playful.

    Back in November, right before I joined the FB DIABETES group and the FDMB, I was working with my vet on dosing and she kept telling me it was fine that he was in the 300-450 range as long as he felt good. That doesn't sound right. I want him to be regulated...
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  8. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    That's helpful to focus on, Bobbie, thanks. I will try. Just so discouraged.
     
  9. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Remember, our cats are more than just a number. Is he feeling food, the 5 p's? He will get there.
     
  10. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    He does feel good, now that the UTI has passed. I am VERY lucky to have such a healthy boy who always eats so well! This would be so much harder if he didn't feel well, or if I couldn't count on him eating what I give him... He has gotten a little harder to test in the last few weeks (antsy when I'm messing with his ears). That bothers me because he used to never mind it. And I think all the other feline issues in the house are starting to take a toll on me... Getting tired. :oops:
     
  11. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    You might bring him back to the vet for a recheck. He was diagnosed last week? I started bringing mine in for a recheck after 2 weeks when they had UTIs. That way, I can be sure that the UTI has truly passed and isn't just hanging out hiding from me. Since the only way we really know is when they are peeing inappropriately or having a hard time peeing, it's difficult to be sure. I know the money part isn't fun, but it might be good. Just a recheck so hopefully they shouldn't have to do much more than just a cysto to get a urine sample and check it. That's all we ever did. That way, you'll know for sure the higher numbers aren't due to that...just at thought.

    I know the feeling of being tired. When we had problems in august that lasted...oh...a month and a half or so, I got super tired. I wasn't sure I could do it anymore. I found that getting out helps. Take a walk in the afternoon, or go to a movie. Get together with a friend for lunch. Take a drive to nowhere special. It really helped me to get out and do something for myself...even if it was only a few hours. I came back feeling renewed and able to handle things. I also had a long talk with my BF about how I really need him to help me when they get sick...I need his support and I need him to help me care for them. He agreed...I think he didn't ever offer because I never asked. He figured I had it handled...but I didn't.

    We're here for you, Cara! Hugs!
     
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  12. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I can relate.... after a day of lots of testing, Bubba gets the same way. Take it in stride and remind yourself that we are doing this for their good.....
    Good advice, so true! Take a break, deep breath, step away...
     
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  13. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Oh Cara - how we all know the feelings you are going through - the fatigue (both physical and emotional) and exasperation and feeling of helplessness and maybe hopelessness. God knows how depressed I have been because of all the kitties that are on the board for a few weeks, and they go into remission so easily, and it seems so unfair Well, it is unfair, but what can we do? But Wynken's dose of insulin is still very low - it's just going to take a little while longer to get under control. In reality, this dance may never end (it probably won't for me) but we can only do what you can do - please vent all you want - it's important to do so - everyone here will give you hugs and we all so understand. It's so good that we are all never depressed at the same time - not that would be bad. You are an amazing person taking care of all these kitties. Speaking for myself, I totally admire what you are doing (and I also lusted over that sweet adorable kitten) To be honest, taking care of Murphy has been one of the most challenging and stressful things I've ever dealt with - there's no two ways around it . We are all thrust into this very stressful place, but stay patient and keep up the amazing work you are doing with Wynken, and vent here, and it will be okay
     
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  14. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Vets aren't used to having clients willing to monitor and home test, so they want the cat to stay safe, even if it isn't what we consider regulated.
    Since you're monitoring and careful, you'll be able to maintain him in lower numbers which will be healthier for him in the long haul.
     
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  15. "Back in November, right before I joined the FB DIABETES group and the FDMB, I was working with my vet on dosing and she kept telling me it was fine that he was in the 300-450 range as long as he felt good. That doesn't sound right."

    No other way to say this except that is some of the worst "vet advice" I've ever read. A cat that lives in the 300-450 range for an extended time is not going to continue to "feel good" for long.
    You are completely correct when you say "that doesn't sound right". Ask your vet if she understands the concept of insulin resistance caused by glucose toxicity.

    Going up, then down, then having to go back up in dose is not uncommon, so don't let it mess up your head.
    Here is how I usually put it:
    Don't assume that what worked last week will work today.
    Don't assume that what failed last week will fail again the next time.
    All that matters is what works today.

    Hang in there Cara.
     
  16. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    I wish I had time to reply to all of you wonderful caring people!!! :bighug:
    Sometimes I am pretty sure I have taken on too much, but I love all of these kitties so much. I know you all understand. I think each one of you have written something that has shifted my head to a better place thinking about Wynken's BG and where he is "at". THANK YOU for being here in this, with me. Hugs to all of you and your babies. :bighug:
     
  17. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Of course today he decides to drop like a rock. :confused: So I'm only able to check on him briefly at lunchtime, and I have a hair appointment after work so I can't even make it home early to check on his blood sugar a few hours before his PS. Looking back at December 24 and New Year's Day, he could get low... (I think... Check my logic here). SoI gave him a tiny bit of 2% carb food. (Evo canned95% chick& turk).

    I think that his choice of dance must be the Polka! :rolleyes:
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It looks like a good number and not too early in the cycle, Cara. I would leave out some food and enjoy that lovely blue and if he is lower at pmps, we'll deal with it
     
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  19. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

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    Sure is nice to see a blue at +5. Hopefully Wynken will go a little bit lower and gently come back up for PMPS.
     
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  20. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    What a nice number! Hope he comes up gently and not too much for pmps! :)
     
  21. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Having some Polish ancestry, I think the Polka is a fine choice! Lol He'll be fine It is late enough in the cycle How do they know to stress us when we have other obligations?
     
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  22. Wow on the PMPS! If he was bouncing, it cleared for sure!
     
  23. Gutsy shooting, by the way.
     
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  24. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    I am about to check him at +4. If I need to I can set an alarm tonite.
     
  25. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    So, like I would have predicted. 336 at +4 after gutsy shooting. ;)

    Actually, it did not feel gutsy at all. Because I know my boy.... and he wants to be between 300 and 400 once he's eaten something. He seems to want to be at that value no matter what.
     
  26. Ok then, back on the trampoline for Wynk.

    Bright side. Don't need to set the alarm.
     
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  27. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    I am wondering what to do tonight. His glucose was very low at 122/120. I feel like unless I give him a token does he will go skyhigh again and keep bouncing all over the place???
    I can monitor him tonight. And I can steer him with food.
     
  28. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Cara Wel'll see what they say but with Alphatrak that's a normal value for blood sugar I was in that situation & I didn't give anything I know the dilemma
     
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  29. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Thanks, Carol. I know... it really is a dilemma, isn't it? I know that 120 isn't truly low blood glucose, but it is pretty low for him for a pre-shot value. It's just that I know he will go high. Because he always goes high....:rolleyes:
     
  30. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Can you stall, without feeding, to see if he rises?
     
  31. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Cara - On AlphaTrak, (which I also use) I believe 120 is considered the upper limit for a normal blood sugar - I personally think it is too low to shoot (but I don't give dosing advice) - I had this come up a few times -when it did, I did not shoot, but got up extra early and gave him the am shot an hour or more earlier than normal
     
  32. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    No, he ate already. I've just tested him and he's at 156.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  33. I think I'm with Carol on this one, Cara.

    She is correct in pointing out that 120 on an AT meter is "normal". Actually, it's the top end of normal on a human meter as well. If he'd been 150, I might have thought about giving Wynk a token dose like .5u providing of course that you were up for testing him a couple of times in the first 3-4 hours after shooting. And although I gave Bob insulin a couple of times when his numbers were "normal", I only did so after weeks of giving insulin, and at that time he was almost off of insulin completely.

    Carl
     
  34. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I would be very reluctant to give insulin also.
     
  35. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    I wanted to check him 1 hour after food and he's up at 156.
     
  36. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    That's only 30 points and that's after food. Unless you have some leeway tomorrow in terms of shooting, I think skipping is the only thing to do.
     
  37. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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  38. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You'll have more options this weekend, if you can monitor. Then, you might be able to stall longer until he is high enough for a token dose or a reduced dose. Then you have the chance to monitor and keep him safe, while in lower ranges.
     
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  39. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Oh Cara sigh I feel exactly the same way You are making progress It just doesn't happen overnight for our kitties
     
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  40. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    I have started to wonder if this bouncing is because of feeding him 3.6 ounces of food every 12 hours. He has eaten his meals every 12 hours for years and years now. But other people have had some success feeding every six hours, or at least more frequently… So I bought one of those five compartment automatic cat feeder's. It came yesterday and I unpackaged it tonight. I have to think a lot about how I'm going to use it. Both he and his sister are going to be able to eat out of it when it opens, I guess. Unless he commandeers it from her, I suppose? I won't have a chance to read the instructions or set it up until Saturday. Thanks again everyone!
     
  41. I fed Bob 4 times a day when he was on insulin. It worked well for him.
     
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  42. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

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    I probably fed Merlin about 4-5 times per day. He would only eat a little maybe 3-4 tablespoons per feeding but it kept his hunger at bay and kept his weight up. I sometimes would use the pet feeder too especially at night and it was wonderful. I also used the frozen hockey pucks. The last slot I used to close up or give him an empty slot so Merlin would not eat the last two hours before his shot.
     
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  43. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Cara - I see both of our kitties are not behaving very well in the past few days -
     
  44. Cara and Wynken (GA)

    Cara and Wynken (GA) Member

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    Carol, I hate seeing all those high numbers! Hugs to you & Murphy!:bighug:
     
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  45. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug:Same to you and Wynken, Cara
     
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