Young Again Dry Food

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Judy and Hershey, Nov 12, 2015.

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  1. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi everyone, Hershey is currently on Prozinc. I was giving him a diet of both low carb canned (1 can) and about 1/3 cup Young Again Dry every day. His numbers were good, but I thought perhaps he was gaining weight from the YA. So I took him off that, and since I have and he is now on strictly canned food, his numbers are up. Perplexing. Has anyone on here had their cat on both? Did they gain weight? I'm thinking of putting him back on the YA.

    I have not done a curve on Hershey because his numbers were slowing coming down into the mid to low 200's. Now he has gone up. He has a few times gotten into our other's cat's food, but not enough to create this kind of a jump in numbers. I will do my first curve this weekend and see where that leads me, but I'm still curious to whether the YA had this effect on bringing the numbers down originally....

    He was getting .5 x2, and now he is up to 1.5 x 2. His pees and appetite are normal. He has been playful and he usually is, possibly a little stressed with our new shelter cat, but he doesn't really show it outwardly. We have had her 6 weeks now and I think he is readjusting well. He hasn't been drinking any more water than usual. Maybe a bit constipated.... he isn't crazy about the pumpkin added to his wet food.

    Any advice much appreciated:cat:
     
  2. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

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    Hi Judy. I don't have any experience with YA dry food so I can't help you there. If you think he is a bit constipated, you can give Hershey 1/8 tsp of Miralax in the AM and PM. You can mix it up in his food as it doesn't have a taste. Some people use Miralax or pumpkin as maintenance additive as some diabetic kitties are proned to constipation. I used Miralax for Merlin for about two weeks (1/8 tsp BID), then changed it to once a day for about a week. Since then, I have not had to use it. My vet has told me that I could increase to 1/4 tsp if I needed to but I never had to.

    It would be great to get a curve in to check to see what his nadir (lowest number in his 12 hour cycle). He could be getting higher numbers for you now because he is going to low in the cycle. With prozinc, you should be dosing based on his pre-shots AND nadir. So without knowing his nadir, it is hard to know if your dose is working or not. Can you start testing at +5 or +6 or +7 during the day?
     
  3. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Judy
    Murphy is on both wet food and YA - I use the YA primarily because the wet food is so low in calories (he only eats about 1/3 of a 5.5 oz can a day- that takes him forever) He gets 1/8 cup of YA twice a day (at each meal) - YA is very high in calories - 600 calories per cup - so if you are giving 1/3cup that is 200 calories a day - depending on your cat's weight- could be close to the total # of calories the cat should have for the day
     
  4. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Thanks for your post. I will be doing a curve on Sunday. So I will give him his AM Shot at 6:00 am, then do my first test at 11 or 12? Anymore afternoon needed?
     
  5. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi Carol, did not know....no wonder he liked it so much as did my new shelter cat Jezzy. I noticed he has gained some weight. Maybe best if I just don't feed, just seems strange that since he isnt' getting it anymore, that he is now gone higher....I was thinking may be it could be because he was grazing on it during the day and that kept his blood sugar more regulated? We try and feed him at 6/10/2/6/10 (they only get 2 and a half cans a day between the both). Not sure if I should buy it again now, or wait another week and do his curve and see what's up. He has a couple of time gotten into Jezzy's dry food when we forget to get it up after she eats......otherwise he seems happy and normal..
     
  6. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    A true curve is a test every 2-3 hours. The early test at +2/3 tells you how long the food bump lasts or if there is one and how soon the insulin is starting to work - how soon he drops and how far down. A number around 4/5 will let you know whether the nadir is early. A test around 6 gives you another chance to see when the nadir is. Another test in the +8 range let's you see when he starts to rise and how much. Tests in the 9/10 range will also give you that info.
     
  7. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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  8. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Good morning Sue, when I test for the Nadir, do the all the day time tests have to be 2 hours before or after eating? Thanks. His AM preshot test (6:30 am) was at 275, so we are off to a good start, will test again in 3 hours, he doesn't usually eat until 11:30, so that should work out nicely if that is the case. Sorry this is so early, even on my days off I am up with my sugar boy.
     
  9. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    No, just the pre shot tests have to be worked in around that 2 hour window. That's because you are basing a shot dose on that number and you want it to be true. The rest of the cycle, just put when you fed into the comments, so if something looks a little wonky, you can see if it maybe had anything to do with food.
     
  10. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Well my first day curve is done. My boy was good and patient, and between me and my two daughters (a rare day at home), we were able to get him a few extra tests. I don't know how remarkable this is. Not sure if this means he needs more insulin?
     
  11. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Good job! So I see an early nadir but a nice slow rise to the pmps. We are looking for a smile curve - from amps down to nadir and back up to pmps. His smile is a little lop sided...

    We generally think of a cat in regulated numbers if they are in the lower 200s at preshot, down to double digits at nadir (but above 45 which is near hypo territory) and then back up to the same range as the am. So Hershey is a little higher than regulated. If he were mine, I think I'd raise the dose tomorrow morning. He's been on one unit for three cycles by then and is still pretty flat. Maybe up to 1.25 on a cycle you can monitor and see if he drops lower for nadir and if it is later in the cycle? What do you think?
     
  12. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Thanks Sue, I completely understand how this is used now, interesting! Hershey seems very active and happy the past few day, today playing with our new adoption Jezzy! I will start him at 1.25 and then to another curve next weekend! Thank you so much for your help, I will post again when we do our next one in a week! Go Hershey! Go MOM! Praying for those lower numbers, especially after a week of high ones!
     
  13. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I think 1.25 is a great plan. Look forward to seeing what that brings you!
     
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  14. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi Sue, Hershey has returned to a more normal test numbers, and I note that since we started the 1.25 he has dropped. Tonight he was already at +13 (I come home late on T/Th and test his PM Preshot at 228. So I only gave him 1.0. What happens if he starts to drop below 200. I know it says to wait 20 and see if he comes down or goes up. What if it stays the same or drops. Do I still shoot? Thanks!
     
  15. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the advice is to stall, without feeding, and retest. At this point, because you have a lot of data, the 200 isn't necessary a no shoot number any more. More importantly you want to be sure the number is rising, not still falling. If the insulin is still working, you want to be cautious about adding more insulin. I'd be reluctant to shoot any number that is clearly dropping, especially if it low. In that case, I'd probably skip.

    I think you can lower that no shoot number - if you feel comfortable doing that. Hershey is still in safe levels. His preshots tend to be in the +200s and his nadir is not yet in double digits. You could start with 180 and start shooting that - if it's clearly rising. You can always shoot a little less than the previous dose (since that dose gave you a lower preshot)

    Does that make sense? You always want to go with your gut and not do anything that doesn't feel right or safe to you. At the same time, the more you push him into lower ranges (at your pace and his) the more his pancreas can heal.
     
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  16. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi Sue, thanks for your words of wisdom! I just wanted to be sure. That is what I did the other night I shot 1.0 instead of 1.25, and using a lower number for reference like 180 makes sense. Unfortunately he was back up to 313 this morning. I will keep the 1.25 for another cycle, do you think blood sugar stays better regulated if they eat smaller but more meals in a day? Ie. he now usually get fed at 6:00 a.m., 11 am, 3 pm, 6:30 p.m. and 10:30 p.m.?
     
  17. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think it varies, depending on the cat. Some cats seem to do best with mini meals; some do best being fed twice a day with maybe a small mid day snack. @Robin&BB has some great ideas on diet/feeding. Maybe she will come by.
     
  18. Absolutely. It also allows for upward adjustment of doses, in my opinion. Bob got 1/2 can of FF 4 times per day. BG can definitely be steered by the timing and amount of feedings.
     
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  19. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi Sue, Hershey tested at 185 tonight. I gave him 1.0, but now I'm worried, I didn't retest, thinking he probably wouldn't have come down considering his number this morning, Im going to test him again in 3 hours just to see where he's at.
     
  20. A +3 is a great idea.
     
  21. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi everyone I gave Hershey 1.0 units of insulin at 6:00 his reading then was 185. at +4 now he is at 93. I fed him, do I need to be concerned?
     
  22. How much did he eat at shot time?
     
  23. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    He probably ate about 1/2 of a small can. He hasn't eaten anything since 6:00 p.m. I actually had to wake him up.
     
  24. Ok, good.
    This is sort of what I was talking about earlier when you asked about feeding multiple times per day. From what you said he'd be due another feeding soon, right?
    That should provide him with a little boost of carbs to stop his numbers from dropping too much more during the next couple of hours.
     
  25. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    He just had about 2 tb of Weruva Kitty Gone Wild. It has 5% carbs. I gave him a few kitty treats, should I test him in about an hour and see how he is doing?
     
  26. Very good plan. What you would hope to see is the number holding steady or up a little.
     
  27. And I'll be awake for at least 2-3 hours in case you need another pair of eyes. :)
     
  28. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Thanks! I have to get some sleep just worried, I will check him in one hour. If it is steady or higher I will pray for a decent reading in the morning. Should I get up and feed him at night?
     
  29. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Thanks Carl!
     
  30. Post your number in an hour. If it is the same or higher, you can probably just put some food down when you head to bed. Let's see what happens.
     
  31. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Sounds good, gonna be tired tomorrow, I'm up at 4:00 a.m.
     
  32. I understand! I'm off tomorrow so no problem here. This is encouraging from where I sit :)
     
  33. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi Carl, he is up to 133 at +5 ;) I fed him again and now I'm going to bed. Thanks for your advice!
     
  34. Exactly what I hoped you'd see! Great job, Judy. Not only did you do what it took to keep his numbers safe, but you also got good data to show you what he does at night!
    The multiple feedings thing works ;-)

    Sleep well.
     
  35. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    A perfect cycle. Next time, you'll feel more confident about shooting in that 180 range. The first few times you see the lower numbers it is a little nerve wracking, but they are what you are aiming for!

    Remember, numbers above 50 are fine. Around 50 and dropping, just a little regular low carb. If he'd drop in the 40s, you can add maybe a teaspoon of gravy off the higher carb food to a tablespoon of the regular and retest in 20 minutes. (Do you have some Fancy Feast gravy flavors in your hypo kit? ). The trick is to use little amounts of food to bring him up; you don't want to fill him up because you want him to continue to eat when you need him to. Three rising tests and you can start to relax.
     
  36. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Thanks again Carl :)
     
  37. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Good Job Judy with the curve!!
     
  38. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Thanks Sue!!! I better print this off or I wont' remember, JKing :) I guess I was more surprised than anything.
    Thanks Bobbie, fit that into the schedule. Would like to do another one next weekend. How is Bubba, like his new pic!
     
  39. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Hi Sue,thank you for your support I was a little surprised by his low number, this morning was a little disappointed by the high reading, but then again tonight lower. Now I'm beginning to think that the Young Again was making him higher.. He is only on low carb canned with freeze dried chicken treats and roasted chicken. Guess he can have a little turkey next week! Seems like such a jump. Any insight would be appreciated!
     
  40. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Interesting story. The folklore here is that giving a diabetic cat turkey on Thanksgiving was the first time someone put together low carb and lower levels. Happy Turkey Day!
     
  41. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    That's cool!
     
  42. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Hi Judy! He's doing great post surgery wise. He only has two sutures left in both corners of the orbital area. (He helped some of them out preening) He has adapted unbelievably well. Thanks for asking.
     
  43. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    Well Hershey has been having some good and bad readings. I have upped his dose to 1.25 x 2. The week before starting this he had a really high cycling, not sure why, possibly stealing our non-diabetic's dry food (this is kept in 1/2 cup container with lid. Our other cat is not free fed we open the container a few times a day so she can have a nibble). We have been guilty about not covering it back up, however we are trying to be diligent about this, and Hershey has not had any in the last week. Soooo this brings me to his AM reading seems high 200's to 300. Then in the evening he has come all the back to the 180's. Hence I do not shoot a full 1.25, last night I only shot .50, because the night before I shot a 1.0 and he dropped down to 93. My first recorded double digit test. I am worried to shoot a 1.25 in the evening if he has dropped to 180, so I have been dosing .50. Which I assume makes his AM number high. Any words of advice much appreciated.
     
  44. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The last two pmps numbers look good. The one unit looked like a nice dose for the 185; the two mid cycle numbers were in a good range and not too low. Your amps is lower than yesterday's, so if a bounce , not a big one. The 0.5 for the 186 may not be enough but you are gathering data.....

    I think you both are doing great!
     
  45. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    I will try to do another curve this weekend, what is your suggestion for that, how many hours in between? Should I try and do a night one? His last meal is around 10 and then he doesn't get anything until 5:30am, so I'm wondering if his blood sugar is effected by this.
     
  46. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Any
    Any data is good data. Often cats are lower or higher at night (more food/less food, more activity/less activity) so it'd be good where Hershey in the spectrum. Then you can try adjusting things to help: feeding a snack at night -maybe towards the end of the cycle or maybe at nadir. Or don't feed at all.

    I love the analogy of this sugar dance as a puzzle and we are figuring it out, piece by piece. Some have more pieces than others, but that's okay.
     
  47. Judy and Hershey

    Judy and Hershey Member

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    This is true! My poor guy, I just wish it hadn't happened to him. Pray for remission every day. Have a great weekend.:cat:
     
  48. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    except that the puzzle can constantly change
     
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