10/7/18 Bailey PMPS 135 +1 145 +2 125 +3 107 +3.8 73 +4 87 +4.5 100 +5 83/80 May need help.

Condo: 10/5/18 Bailey AMPS: 320 +1 333 +2 306 +4 252 +5 236 Setting alarm as part of hypo/surfing prep

Hello everyone,

Doing what I have learned from the experienced members of this board, but if any one is available to talk me through this, that would be great.

We increased dose this AM to .35 units from .25.

Today's numbers:
AMPS: 285 +1 345 +2 285 +3 257 +4 188 +5 166 +6 153 +8 142 +10 156 PMPS 135 + 145 +2 125 +3 107 +4 73

Hope all the little furbabies are doing well out there.

 

You know what to do!!

A snack now and test again in 30!

I don't think she'll drop below 50, but I also wouldn't bet money on it.

 

Chris, you know Bailey so well. She dipped her toes in the green and she's already looking to get out of the water. +4 87.
Looks like I sounded the alarm prematurely, but I did not want this to get away from me.

Pretty proud of myself for not posting until she got to 73

I guess China is done using the sharks as surfboards?

 

I haven't even re-checked her yet, but I know she's fine.....We've been doing this dance over 5 years now and China has spent a lot of time out there with her toothy friends.....but she's also very good about coming and telling me if she needs some more food.

One of the best things about all the testing....I know her VERY well at this point.

Very nice!!

The reason I didn't think Bailey would go below 50 was because of the "+2 rule" (now in some cats, the +3 is a better predictor but most cats follow +2 pretty well)

If the +2 is about the same as the PS, it's usually going to be a pretty normal cycle....gradually down to nadir and then gradually back up

If the +2 is higher than the PS, it usually signals the beginning of a bounce....those cycles you can usually take a pokey break and catch up on some sleep

If the +2 is lower than the PS (more than just meter variance), that's your "early warning" that kitty may be planning something crazy later in the cycle and that you need to get more tests in later until you know for sure they've stopped dropping.

This is what I see:
Bailey had a food bump at +1 (totally normal) and her +2 was about the same as her PMPS....her +3 was lower, but that's what I'd expect since "onset of action" with Lantus is usually between +2 and +3

She dropped more in the next (about) hour but not by a drastic amount, and I also figured you had already given her a snack before you posted, so I figured the next test would be a little higher or she'd be surfing.

I'd still plan on getting another test on her later....maybe in an hour (without any more food)

 

Lots of info in that one post! Thanks!

I will reread and digest your analysis. Then I will retest Bailey in another 37 minutes (it has been 23 since last test)

Thanks so much!

PS-Alarms are ready this time!

 

I may not be here.....got a severe line of storms moving in and there's lots of lightening.

I see @Gill & George online though so hopefully they'll pop in if I can't.

 

Thanks for your help!
Hope you don't lose power!

15 more minutes to final confirmation test

 

Seems to have flattened out.

Just getting up will check in later

The gang are fed and I'm having

 

Enjoy your coffee! I love it, but I can't drink it because it doesn't let me sleep. Of course, I'm not sleeping anyway
I think China insisted Bailey come back out to play.

+3 107 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+3.8 73 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+4 87
+4.5 100
+5 83 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.

 

She's looking pretty flat. I think you could leave it an hour if you want.
What do you think?

 

I can try, but that's what I told Chris and then I couldn't resist and poked the poor baby in 30 minutes.

Was it ok to feed her? I figured if she was going back down, that was the right thing to do.

 

No right answer...
What carb content is the crave?

 

They say it is zero carb, and it comes up as zero carb when I enter the numbers into a carb calculator.

 

Sorry I couldn't remember.

Giving her low carb snacks to surf is fine.

Have you decided on a routine feeding schedule?
eg George used to get 2tsp at +2 +4 +6 routinely.
Though it took me a while before I settled on this

 

Where are you getting the numbers that you are putting into the carb calculator? If they are the "guaranteed analysis" that are on the label, you are not getting the correct carb percentage. These are just averaged numbers and have a wide variance. In order to correctly figure the carb percentage, you need the "as fed" numbers. Most companies don't give those out easily. Dr. Lisa Pierson invested hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours into obtaining these numbers when she compiled her list. Unfortunately, Crave is not on it, and they only list the guaranteed analysis on their website, so you'd have to contact them to get the true numbers.

That said, I don't think it is high carb, so it's probably okay. She seems to be levelling off. What does she have against your getting sleep? Really, Rosie, couldn't you do this during the daytime cycle?

 

As I said above no right answer, but, you could have tried not feeding her.
She was pretty flat, and getting to midcycle, so she may just about be reaching nadir, so I would expect her to not have too much downward momentum.
I might have tried not feeding and then checking in 30 min to see if she would have surfed without help.

BTW I like this info you supplied above. I used to do that in my threads when I was steering, it helped me keep track as I was going along and then once the day was done I would look back and ask myself what I could have done differently.

 

LOL you know she's been reading that handbook, Rule 5 be sure the Bean is sleep deprived.

 

Yes, I've been copying numbers off of the label. Oh no, I just stocked up on it too.
I'll give them a call and see what I can find out.

I know! I know! I've asked. I've pleaded. I've played surf music during the day, as suggested by @Sandy and Black Kitty . Nothing works.

 

I think she needs a new handbook because I don't see this working out as a long term solution.

 

+3 107 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+3.8 73 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+4 87
+4.5 100
+5 83 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+6 103

No feeding and wait another hour, right?

 

Stress that you want the "as fed" numbers, or at least the "dry matter" numbers. Be warned that you might not get them - the person you're talking to probably won't know what you mean. You'd think this info was proprietary, the way these cat food companies guard it.

 

Yup. Looking good for sleep soon.

 

Thanks for the heads up and for the proper terminology. I can't keep feeding it to her if I don't know what's in it so hopefully that is enough incentive for them to give me an answer.

 

That would be great! Thanks so much for your help

 

You'd think, but they are owned by Mars, which also makes Whiskas and Royal Canin. Neither are on Dr. Lisa's list, which leads me to believe they were not cooperative when she contacted them for info. If they won't give it to a vet.....

 

If they aren't willing to answer that question, it must be pretty bad. To make things worse, it's twice the price of FF. Hate to think I've been going broke, and it may not even be helping her.

 

Well, I don't want to turn you against it. Her numbers have not been that bad, so it can't be too high in carbs. I just wanted you to be aware that you don't have all the info to make an informed decision. As long as you know that, you can plan accordingly when food needs to be used to steer her.

 

oh no. On the contrary. I very much appreciate you informing me. I have joked with my family that Bailey eats better than we do, and the sacrifice is only worth it if she really is. Wouldn't make sense to pay twice the price otherwise. It didn't even dawn on me that if the food wasn't on the list, it was because the company refused to provide the information. I figured I could just use the calculator to figure it out.
I have sent them an email, and I will call in the am. I'll let you know what I find out.

 

Hope you manage to get the info you need from the pet food company. I had luck with some and others just didn't even respond.

I just looked at the ingredients list for the pate varieties and gravy varieties, they both have tapioca starch, so I doubt that they are zero carb, but possibly still low in carbs. In the pate varieties the starch comes a lot further down the ingredient list than in the gravy varieties, so chances are the gravy varieties will be relatively higher in carb than the pate.

 

Are we correct in assuming you are feeding her the pate?

 

I hope so too.
I just looked on their website, but I don't see where they said zero carb. I don't recall where we saw that, to be honest, but that's the reason we started buying it in the first place so we saw it somewhere.

 

I was just looking and @Lesliejm was looking into Crave a while ago, I don't know if she ever heard back, just tagged her to see if she did find out what the as fed values were.


Just for your perusal, some info on Carrageenan and Gums and their posible issues. Carrageenan is listed as an ingredient.
http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and...-food-products-ingredients-to-avoid/guar-gum/
http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/carrageenan-a-common-pet-food-additive/

 

Thanks Gill. Hopefully Leslie has more info for me.

In the meantime, I think I will stick to the Friskies. Looks like to can be better both for her and for my budget.
It's pretty frustrating that these companies are so deceptive when we are just trying to take good car of our furbabies.

 

Bailey is now at 97. What do I do now?

+3 107 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+3.8 73 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+4 87
+4.5 100
+5 83 Fed her 1 tsp FF mixed with Crave.
+6 103
+7 97

 

Two hours since you last fed, she looks flat, it's late in the cycle.....
What does you gut tell you?

 

If this were me I would be calling it a night.

 

That's what I was thinking too.
Thanks for your help.
Have a great day!

 

Sleep tight, I'm off to do some weeding in the veggie patch been putting it off

 

Sorry I disappeared on you. I got involved in a discussion elsewhere. Glad Bailey let you off the hook. Sleep tight!

 

No worries. I ended up not really leaving Bailey off the hook, but I did let myself off the hook. I set alarms and continued to test her until she started to go up. I was finally able to let her off the hook about 2 hours later.
Thanks for your help!

 

Beautiful numbers!!

 

Thanks!

This is her first time spending so much time in the green, and she's been sleeping all day except when I call her to eat. She barely budges when I poke her ear. Is that how Bella gets when she spends a day surfing?