03/23 Gizmo PMPS=52, +1=51, +1.5=45, +2=65, +2.5=71, +3=82, +4=101, +5=96 , +11=246

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by LizzieInTexas, Mar 23, 2017.

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  1. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    03/22 +11 160

    AMPS 139

    He didn't bounce!

    Going to see what +1 & +2 numbers are and I will make a decision on staying home today.

    Bitter sweet day today. 32 years ago I lost my mom to cancer. I sure do miss her.
     
  2. carfurby (GA)

    carfurby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nice start for Gizmo. I hope he surfs safely today. :bighug::bighug::bighug: as you remember your mom.
     
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  3. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    That's more like it Gizmo! I love when they stop bouncing. So very sorry about your mom, gone to soon........:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  4. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Shot low this morning - how much do I need to worry about dropping extremely low (I will monitor). Do I just let him go? Next snack (LC) is in 1 1/2 hours.
     
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  5. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Get a +2 and if he is the same or lower than the pre shot then you will know it is going to be active. But, usually, when they are starting from a lower number, the don't have big drops and stay flatter.
     
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  6. carfurby (GA)

    carfurby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    A lot of times they do just surf when you shoot low. The +2 should give you an idea of what Gizmo will do today.
     
  7. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Just looked at the SS and he is all ready dropping with out a food bump.... I would give a tsp or two of LC food to him now to slow him down.
     
  8. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I put it in the title and forgot to put it in the post

    +1 98

    Gave him a bit of LC food.
     
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  9. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Back on Jan 30th you shot a low blue (with a less of a dose) but he did require some propping with MC food so it will be interesting to see what he does today.
     
  10. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    :D

    I don't mind.:cool:
     
  11. Julie and Eleanor (GA)

    Julie and Eleanor (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about your mom.
     
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  12. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  13. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +2 59

    2 Tbsp MC
     
  14. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +2.5=50 (2 Tbsp MC with LC snack)
     
  15. carfurby (GA)

    carfurby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I see Gizmo has to do things his way and dive on you. I'm glad you are home with him. I hope he slows down and surfs now.
     
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  16. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Well would you look st that ! All sorts of greenage in this condo this morning :D

    Congratulations on earning a reduction.

    Now Mr. Gizmo, it's time to surf-
     
  17. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    AMPS=139, +1=98 (2Tbsp LC), +2=59 (2 Tbsp MC), +2.5=50 (2 Tbsp MC with LC snack),
    +3=48 (1 Tbsp MC)
     
  18. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about that yet. Going to wait and see what +11 and PMPS #'s are. He has never held a reduction. In fact, we are at the highest dose ever (currently). I may wait for 3 under 50 - it is a good time to try that since we are coming up on the weekend.

    If anything, I am thinking if I do a reduction - only doing 1/4 dose reduction. He was in the 300's just a day ago.

    I am open for options and thoughts/suggestions.
     
  19. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    1/4 dose?? How much would that be? Reductions are typically done in 0.25u increments...

    eta- could you point out where the failed reductions are- I'm having trouble locating them on the ss.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  20. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    I use calipers so I could do the math and adjust the measurement.
     
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  21. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I had a feeling that he was after a reduction. If he higher tonight, you could shoot through the bounce and give the reduction tomorrow morning. You want to consider how much steering you had to do this cycle to keep his head above water also when making the decision not to reduce.
     
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  22. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +3.5 50
    no food
     
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  23. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Glad you could stay home today with him, Lizzie.
     
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  24. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I was just looking at his SS and seeing back on 2.21 he had that skipped shot from the 68 in the AM, then that PM cycle you reduced him to .75 unit down from the previous 1.25. And after that there was some inconsistent dosing for about 6-7 cycle, there could be a reason for it but, I'm thinking that it's hard to know if he doesn't hold reductions well because of that.
     
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  25. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Lizzie could you point out where the failed reductions are-? I'm having trouble locating them on the ss.
     
  26. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    on 01/31 PM I reduced from 1.25U to 1.0U because of one low green. He never recovered from that bounce and on 02/10 I increased back to 1.25U.

    Now, I am still fairly new to this, but that looks like a failed reduction to me - please correct me if I am wrong.

    I seems like this is his typical MO - He starts to get good numbers and forward momentum going until I take a reduction after a one time low number and then we are back to the "original" dose after a stretch of yellows. I don't want to loose momentum.

    Here is the condo where @Marje and Gracie discussed it with me.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/03-18-gizmo-pmps-198-1-226-2-257-4-221-5-5-212.174978/

    and the day before where I explained:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...e-dose-increase-and-bg-s.174924/#post-1920614
     
  27. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    His numbers were real whacky after his dental (for about a week). So that is why that week is a mess. It was at a time where I COULDN'T be off from work so I had no choice.
     
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  28. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I figured there was a reason for the wacky dosing. Please know that I was not criticizing you, I am trying to understand why you thought he didn't hold reductions.

    Where is he now with the cycle and BG?
     
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  29. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I know you aren't criticizing! No worries there. I have a bit thicker skin than that - and if I can't "argue" my point than I truly don't know what I am talking about!:p

    +4.5 46 (LC snack)

    1 1/2 hours since any MC (only LC). I am trying to leave for work in about an hour - we shall see what his numbers do. He should start coming up by then.

    Am I doing the right thing with regards to the food and not bringing him up any higher? He seems ok, a little p!$$ed at the pokes and wanting to be left along but tolerant. LOL.
     
  30. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    You should get him above 50 and have him hold above without food for 2 tests or an hour so you know that he is going to be safe while you are gone. Otherwise, you shouldn't leave him. He isn't used to be that low and he earned a reduction so there is nothing morefor him to prove. It's a double edged sword with them going that low and carbing them up. They are going to bounce from the lower numbers they aren't used to and they are going to jack up with the higher carb food but, there isn't any merit in letting them hang below 50.
     
  31. saltycat

    saltycat Well-Known Member

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    Apr 18, 2016
    Usually you want to get them up over 50 and then withhold food to make sure they surf. Don't forget about meter variance, that 46 could be as low as a 38.
     
  32. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  33. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    There is (yet another) adage here in L&LL which it is that data any farther back than 2 weeks is ancient history.

    When I look at his ss I do not see a history of failed reductions. I do see a good deal of stumbling about early on which is common, particularly when a caregiver works outside the home.

    Now that you have become comfortable enough to follow TR it's time to build a new history based on Gizmos reactions to following the TR protocol.

    Since you are new to TR I recommend you 'go by the book' and take the standard 0.25u reduction. If he bounces way up for PMPS you can hold the dose for tonight's cycle and reduce in the AM, a technique referred to as 'shooting through the bounce'

    That's my $0.02 :cool:
     
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  34. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    :cool: You nailed it!

    Ok, I'll take your $0.02. I will shoot through the bounce if there is one though!

    +5 51 (no food).
     
  35. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    For safety it's recommended that you always "feed the 40s".
     
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  36. Doodles & Karen

    Doodles & Karen Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Sandy on taking the reduction. Hope he stays up for you now.
     
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  37. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Sandy about Ancient History. Once a wise sage name Jill said to me, "that was then, this is now" And I also agree about taking the reduction , because he earned it AND you work outside the house. If he is higher tonight, shoot through the bounce and reduce tomorrow AM like Sandy and I recommended.
     
  38. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  39. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +5.5 47
    2 Tbsp MC
     
  40. Doodles & Karen

    Doodles & Karen Well-Known Member

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    I think it's time for some HC so you don't have to test him every 30 mins the entire day. He already earned the reduction especially with him continuing to fall below 50.
     
  41. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Gosh, Gizmo, you've sure made your point today :confused:!

    Maybe he's just been angling for that yummy HC all along...
     
  42. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Well he got it! lol.

    +6=45

    2 Tbsp HC
     
  43. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    OMG! Get up Gizmo!!!
     
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  44. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I'd also like to add that when you are doing a more aggressive technique, like holding for three drops between 40 and 50 (and please note the difference between that and three drops below 50; one drop below 40 calls for an automatic reduction), it is highly recommended that you take the full 0.25u reduction.

    Also...just one comment on "feeding the 40s" because this is a statement that has been misused across the board. Yes, if you get a 40 something number during the cycle, you should feed it. However, if you get a 40 at preshot, you should not feed it, but wait 15-20 minutes and retest to see if the number is coming up. If it doesn't, then feed a small amount of LC and retest in 20-30 minutes (reference Dealing with Low Preshots).
     
  45. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +6.5 45
    2 Tbsp HC

    ETA history so I can modify the title (too long)
    AMPS=139, +1=98, +2=59, +2.5=50, +3=48, +3.5=50, +4=48, +4.5=46, +5=51, +5.5=47, +6=45,
     
  46. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    :eek:

    He has NEVER done this before. His usual nadir is +5.5-+6.
     
  47. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +7=50
    Broke out the 23%carb food. 2 Tbsp XHC
     
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  48. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Goodness.

    Anything else that seems different today? Maybe he's getting over a pancreatitis flare or something similar, to make his insulin needs decrease?

    Although, I don't know why I always try to find explanations for these things, beyond, "he's a cat!" :rolleyes:
     
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  49. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Lizzie, do I remember that you started Gizmo on the Pancreas Booster?
     
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  50. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    He has been on the Pancreas Booster for about 1 month and on the GlucoEnsure for two days (03/21 AM cycle). Other than those two things - nothing else has changed (that I am aware of) - LOL.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/exciting-supplement.173867/
     
  51. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Tuesday (03/21) - two days ago :eek:

    What do you think?
     
  52. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering if that could be it. :cat: The website said that it can take about 3 weeks to see a difference.
     
  53. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I am seeing some of the lowest non insulin supported numbers with Bubba and I think that is why. hmmmmm..........
     
  54. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Looks how fast he cleared his last bounce (yesterday AM).
     
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  55. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    :) I know! And if it keeps him from having any more P'titis attacks, it's worth it's weight in gold. I think I better order a few more bottles as mine are on back order until April 15th as the company can't keep up with the orders!
     
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  56. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried ebay?
     
  57. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +7.5=59

    Give food or no? Totally confused on what to do :confused:
     
  58. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +8=57
    No food for an hour.
     
  59. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  60. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I think it's good you let him go without feeding the last couple of tests. It's late in the cycle and he's surfing. Good job!
     
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  61. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +9=52

    At this rate I am not going to be able to shoot @ PM.
     
  62. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  63. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I got my Glucoensure from Ebay but the PetAlive site offers buy 2 get 1 free.
     
  64. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    It's too soon to tell, let's see what he dose in a few hours. You might be skipping to drain the depot some.
     
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  65. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    I ordered two more of each. The Glucoensure from ebay and the Pancreas Booster from PetAlive.

    +10=53
     
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  66. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    His poor ears. :(
     
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  67. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Are you putting some Neosporin with pain reliever on his ears?
     
  68. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    I usually do when I am done testing for the cycle, so he got slathered up last night before I went to bed but not today (yet).
     
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  69. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I would do it during a particularly busy day like to day to help numb some of the soreness they got red and sore looking.
     
  70. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  71. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +11=65

    History:
    AMPS=139, +1=98, +2=59, +2.5=50, +3=48, +3.5=50, +4=48, +4.5=46, +5=51, +5.5=47, +6=45, +6.5=45, +7=50, +7.5=59, +8=57, +8.5=61, +9=52, +9.5=58, +10=53, +10.5=50

    Ok, need to start getting some input on what to do for PM cycle.
     
  72. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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  73. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    If it were me, I would skip tonight and drain the depot some. You both need a break and start over tomorrow with the earned reduction.
     
  74. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    See what others think and do what feels comfortable to you.
     
  75. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Well, I would definitely take that reduction tonight. :D If a kitty is particularly hard to get up and keep him up, it also shows he wants that reduction.

    I see you've shot just over 100 before, but didn't look back far enough to see if you've shot green yet. How low would you feel comfortable shooting? There's half a chance he's going to bounce tonight. :rolleyes:
     
  76. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Just to help reassure, he came up 15 points in the last half hour with no food. Chances are he'll come up more than that by PMPS time. Right now it's a waiting game. If you want, you could always get a get a +11.5 to give you time to review options. Sorry, Giz's ears.
     
  77. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    I'll get a +11.5.

    BRB

    He was supposed to come up all day - lol
     
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  78. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I agree with Wendy....he's coming up and if you have supplies and can test, I'd reduce the dose and shoot any number above 50. But you have to be comfortable with potentially dealing with lower numbers tonight if he doesn't bounce. He still might work that 1.75u depot a bit.

    If he drops back down by PS, it's likely a second dip.

    Of late, there has been this trend by members to skip shots to drain the depot. There are a few circumstances where that is absolutely the best thing to do (CG cannot test, CG just needs a break and sleep, kitty really needs a pokey break, etc). But it's important to keep in mind that all of those things are generally for the CG (and the kitty if he's had too many pokes and his ears are sore) and not for the Diabetes. It doesn't mean it's wrong to skip to drain the depot but it isn't necessary for the diabetes treatment.

    Speaking as an oldtimer, one rarely saw members skip to drain the depot unless the CG was on their last legs or didn't have supplies.
     
  79. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +11.5=60

    I have only shot 1 PS green before - it was on 11/20/16 - it was scary.
    +1.5 56 +2 50 +2.5 46

    That was with him in the yellows the night before.
     
  80. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    He was breaking a bounce then and had a lot of downward momemtum that day. Today the momentum is probably going up.
     
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  81. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty much up to how comfortable you are and how tired you are after a day of testing. I skipped a few times to drain the depot after a long day of constant testing and a cat with sore red ears and I was glad I did. Like Marje said, there is no right or wrong way . You hold the syringe.
     
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  82. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    PMPS 52

    Shot 1.5U (earned reduction)

    G-d, I feel like I am going to throw up.
     
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  83. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    That should earn me balls of GOLD - lol. Screw the steel. :joyful:
     
  84. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    Ah but BOS are so much more rewarding. The first time shooting low is always the hardest.

    Remember...you are in control. You can test and you have food to steer the numbers. Feed him a good meal at PS. Not so much that he gets full but just so it can help the numbers rise a bit especially if he's at the end of his duration.

    Be sure and start, at least, with a +1.
     
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  85. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Well look at you go Lizzie

    I am glad that Marje said the above as I did not mean to imply that skipping to drain the depot was for the diabetes. It is a Care Giver choice.

    Good luck with this cycle and I will be interested to see how it plays out for you. Surf safely Gizmo. :bighug:
     
  86. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    He ate about 1/2 his PS meal. He usually will go back and finish it but I don't know if he will tonight. He isn't real hungry with all the food he got this morning.

    I will get +1.

    ETA - I didn't load him up this morning but it was more food than he normally gets and was richer (MC/HC) food.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  87. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Titanium baby, Titanium :D

    BOS (315x500).jpg
     
  88. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

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    +1=51

    Up baby, UP!

    UP.jpg
     
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  89. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    +1.5=45

    HC Food? What do I do?
     
  90. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Yes, HC food right now.
     
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  91. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Just the gravy, you don't want to fill him up as it is so early in the cycle.
     
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  92. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    2 LARGE tablespoons of HC FF gravy
     
  93. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Good job. Just lather, rinse, repeat. Give him 30 mins after the gravy and test.

    If he stays low, alternate gravy with HC food so you don't fill him up. You can also add a bit of karo or honey if needed.

    This is not unusual so don't worry....breathe, test, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  94. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    It is for me 'n Gizmo. Lol.

    :joyful:

    I just want him up before nadir hits.
     
  95. Lincolns Mom

    Lincolns Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    you are rocking this... what a day you have been having... dont want to fill up your condo but want to know you are being cheered on from the sidelines... Gizmo no more teasing the sharks... back to the lagoon... Lincoln says the moonlight looks great on it :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  96. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Lol. Too late. I already have.

    Thank you. :bighug:
     
  97. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    +2 65

    More gravy? or wait 30 min?
     
  98. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    I’d give some MC to help keep him up and then test 30 mins later in case he onsets a bit late.
     
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  99. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    MC=16%?
     
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  100. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Yes.
     
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  101. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    +2.5 71

    Nothing given at +2 - will give a bit of MC now and test again at +3 to make sure he is still safe or coming up.
     
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