05/02 Gizmo PMPS=184, +2=137, +3.5=115, +4.5=112, +11=170

05/01 +11=210

For reference this is last night's cycle:
05/01 PMPS=153, +2=150, +4=150, +5.5=146, +11=210

Pretty flat.

I am not sure if this is food or the reduction. I am feeding the Wellness Complete Health Turkey (mixed with Instinct Grain Free Venison). Per @Judy and Boomer she is seeing Boomer's level rise using the Wellness Complete.

I am not sure what I should do. If you look at Gizmo's SS on 04/09 is where I fed this food for the first time and it did not appear to spike him then (but can't remember what I mixed it with). Gizmo has seen a rise in BG a few cycles after a decrease (see 04/29 on SS) but came back down.

Should I eliminate the food? Should I bump the dose up? Should I give it another day without doing anything?

If someone can give me the exact verbiage to use I will e-mail Wellness again and see if I can get the carb content for the Turkey and Chicken (Tanya's show it has 6.22 and Dr. Lisa's shows 4 Carb).

Have a great day!

 

Have you been feeding the Wellness every day since the reduction? If so, I think I'd try switching back to the old food before increasing the dose.

 

I am foggy this morning. I know I started it after the reduction but I don't think it was the exact same time. I will mix up anew batch of my go-to and change it tonight.

 

New mixture with the Wellness Complete Health was started last night (05/01 PM cycle). Reduction was 04/30 PM cycle.

 

I'd definitely try switching the food then.

 

I agree with Carla. Try switching the food, first.

 

Already mixed up the new batch. Will start it tonight. I add digestive enzymes so I like them to have a few hours to desolve before I feed. Don't want to cause mouth sores.

 

This food issue will be the death of us Beans! Yes Boomer's levels did seem to go up after feeding Wellness "Grain Free" turkey. Apparently this is the old name for the food and the new name is "Complete". Not sure whether the composition has changed. Also not sure whether the stuff we get in Canada is different. @Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) feeds Wellness and it's never affected Rusty's levels.

 

This food issue will be the death of us Beans! Yes Boomer's levels did seem to go up after feeding Wellness "Grain Free" turkey. Apparently this is the old name for the food and the new name is "Complete". Not sure whether the composition has changed. Also not sure whether the stuff we get in Canada is different. @Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) feeds Wellness and it's never affected Rusty's levels.

 

This is the verbiage that I use
"Could you please provide me with the typical nutritional analysis either as dry matter or as-fed for your various canned cat foods".
I'm going to email them again today because I never did get an answer to the previous email. PS I use the numbers that they provide and I perform a calculation to find out the carbs from calories.

 

I just wish I understood the calculations better.

Based on the Wellness website this is the Guaranteed Analysis for the Wellness Complete Turkey (I am using the 12.5 can (US) with the old green/purple label food)
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-cat-food/product-catalog/complete-healthtm-pate-turkey



Using this calculator (http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html) Here are the numbers (which I don't understand):


Which carb % do we use? Wet or dry? I have always just used the tables because I don't understand this stuff.

What is strange is that it didn't seem to affect Gizmo the first (04/09 AM for 5 cycles) or second time I gave it to him (04/24 AM cycle and 04/26 AM cycle (5 cycles)). Then I switched to the Fowl Ball and Wellness Core 04/26 PM cycle and he immediately earned a reduction on that cycle (low of 43BG), so maybe he would have had a reduction prior to that time if he wasn't on the Wellness Grain Free/Wellness Complete Health.

I am planning on running home around nadir to see how low he gets this morning. He dropped pretty good between PS and +2.

If I contact Wellness what do I request for precise info regarding carb content?

This was kind of a test for @Judy and Boomer also, but I also read this post last night "Carb sensitivity - thoughts" and decided to move forward with this mixture (mostly because it didn't seem to have an affect on Gizmo's BG). Hind-site I wish I had timed it better with regard to the reduction but it was just the next food in the rotation so went ahead.

 

Just sent off e-mail:
"Subject: Requesting nutritional analysis either as dry matter or as-fed

There are a some of us with Diabetic cats that are having BG spikes when feeding the Wellness Complete Health Turkey and the Wellness Complete Health Chicken (The old labels that is "Turkey Formula "Grain Free"). Can you please provide the typical nutritional analysis either as dry matter or as-fed for your various canned cat foods - more specifically the Wellness Complete Health Turkey and the Wellness Complete Chicken but would appreciate the info for all your wet cat foods.

Thank you.
Awaiting your response."

 

It's so hard to know if the new food is influencing the numbers since it coincided with the reduction. My best bet it that it is more of the reduction than the food. Since +2's are lower that makes me think that he is starting to clear the bounce. I would eliminate the new food for a few cycles and see what happens and makes sure it's not a bounce. But, If he were to go steadily up from today, I would call it a failed reduction.

You mentioned mouth sores from the digestive enzymes. I had not heard that before. I put mine into the food right before feeding. It is better to do it before?

 

The guaranteed analysis unfortunately does not give good information as it gives minimums and maximums and doesn't actually indicate what is in the can. I look at the ingredients list first as I want to avoid products with rice, potato, sweet potato, starch, etc....all those high carb ingredients. They should be listed in order of quantity. Then when I find one that I deem "possibly acceptable" I email the company for the nutritional analysis.
The problem is.....the carbs aren't actually measured by the pet food companies....if I'm understanding it correctly the carbs are what is leftover after they have determined the % protein and % fat basically. So if one of those figures are inaccurate, the carbs will be inaccurate as well.
Also....when comparing foods I always make sure I'm comparing apples to apples.....so I use a calculation to convert to carbs from calories (I've been told that this is how feline nutritionists would calculate the carbs) but I think it's ok if you consistently use "dry matter basis" or "as fed" .
There was also a post yesterday about carbs....I'll try to find it.

This food issue is driving me crazy! I'm trying my best to find more good foods for Boomer but it seems every time I try a new one his levels go up then I have to wait 2 or 3 days until he settles back down before I try another one.

 

I completely understand and sympathize. I am in the same boat AND I have to be concerned with the phosphorus in the foods on top of it because of Gizmo's ckd. I am very thankful that he isn't too picky of an eater though I don't think he likes the Weruva Steak Frites (only food so far) but sneak it in every once in a while since I bought an entire case of it.

If you do, please post a link.

 

Here is the link I referred to earlier http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/carb-sensitivity-thoughts.177243/

With Boomer being diabetic and Allen being early stage CKD, I have found that the Weruva Fowl Ball and the Weruva On the Cat Wok are ok for both......the phosphorous may be a bit higher than I would like but sometimes I need to have foods that they can both eat because we won't be here to feed Allen separately.
Of course this is why I ended up trying Wellness to begin with; both carbs and phosphorous were reasonably levels

 

Gizmo gets PancreaPlus which is a digestive enzyme specifically for pancreatitis (RX from vet). With this it states to let is sit for 15-30 min (or more) prior to feeding. I mix up 5 cycles worth of food at a time (just the way it works out with the size of the cans and oz's I feed). When I mix it up initially, I add the enzymes then and so it is at least 6-12 hours before I feed the first serving from the "new" batch. I am not sure if that is the case with other digestive enzymes.

 

+5.5=137

 

I know Dr. Lisa's list and Tanya's have slightly different carb % for these foods, but both lists were updated very recently, so I don't think you are going to get much info from Wellness that will help clarify. Dr. Lisa did a post here where she talked about how you are not going to get an exact number, especially since the ingredients can vary slightly from batch to batch. She had some really good comments on the subject, as well as a link to what to say when you contact the company, on her updated food list.

 

Someone has to try

If Judy and I are both e-mailing than maybe one of us can get an answer. If you have read our condos over the past week - this has been on-going (which you may have - I can't keep track) . I did get a reply from a previous e-mail from Wellness regarding the change in their labeling (and in it they noted "slight" formula change).

It just sucks because it is a food that both Boomer and Gizmo like and is lower in phos than a lot of others.

 

My guess is it's not the food but rather a bounce. He dropped over 100 pts in 2 hours on 4/30 and some kitties bounce more from a big drop than the 40 he got to on the same day. My 2 cents is to sit tight...Gizmo likes to take a little time to settle in. Of course trying the elimination of the food is fine, just document as always.

 

PMPS 184

History:
AMPS=237, +2=172, +5.5=137

 

+2=137

Lowest +2 since first cycle of the reduction (depot). I won't know if this is a bounce clearing or food - but I suspect the food (maybe a little of both) - but he has been on such a good run even with the reductions recently (with the exceptions of my stupid fur shots).

 

By all means, try! I hope you get the answers you want. I totally sympathize with your frustration, trust me. Been there, hated that!

 

If you are using the "old label" cans of Wellness Turkey, I think you can be confident in trusting Dr. Lisa's table. (4% carbs). The 12.5 oz. (and 5.5oz.) cans are "made in the USA"; the 3 oz. cans are "Product of Canada". Rusty has always preferred the Canadian 3 oz cans. I don't think the formula of the "old label" cans has changed. I've been feeding them for years (both the turkey and the chicken).
However, in reading the list of ingredients on the Wellness website for the "new label" cans, I see several changes, some of which Wellness has promoted (e.g., no carageenen). There may be other changes in the formula. The thing that makes me uneasy is that the "new label" cans (I'm citing the 3-oz cans here) state: "made in Canada with finest global ingredients". What I worry about are the sources of these "finest global ingredients". "Product of Canada" on the old-label cans is unequivocal.
I haven't seen the "new label" cans yet, so haven't tried them. I did try the "new label" 3-oz. can of Wellness Core Turkey & Duck. The food was different in color and smell from the old formula (which only came in 5.5 oz. cans). Rusty ate it and I don't think it spiked his bg. The label read: "made in Canada with finest global ingredients". Again, I worry about those "global" ingredients.

There are detailed instructions for calculating the carb. content of foods in Janet & Binky's original list. This list is out of date, but the method of calculating is still useful. I'll try to find it and post a link. I believe Dr. Lisa follows Janet & Binky's procedures in her previous list.
I'm not sure how the Schweiderweb calculator works. It seems too simple!

 

I sent the e-mail more out of frustration. If they could live one day in our lives, I guarantee they would think twice about changing their formulas. It infuriates me sometimes. At least provide us with the information we need to make informed decisions.

 

Sienne posted this link to Janet & Binky's website last year. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/foodfaq.html

See the second question in the list: you don't need the excel spreadsheet, you can do the calculations with regular math (I should say "one" can do the calculations. I, myself, am a math cripple!

 

Thank you for the link. I am going to study it tomorrow. It looks like it explains it better than what I have seen previously.

Just an interesting note. The first two cans fed were purchased about 6 weeks ago, the can I just fed I purchased about 2 weeks ago. Both have old labels. I still have 2 cans of the chicken that I purchased 6 weeks ago, but no turkey but I do have pictures of the old turkey can. I will try and compare and report.