06/18 Capoo AMBG 91 - Vet explanation toxic diabetes

Hi!!!

As you can see, Capoo's numbers are maintaining in the normal range.
Thanks again to all of you!!!



I just wanted to share with you an explanation of toxic diabetes given by an endocrinology professor (sorry in advance for the bad translation) that my vet just sent to me:

A cat is a strict carnivore, with a metabolism not adapted to a brutal increase in glycemia (it is not supposed to be fed with a high carb food).
When the cat suffers from an odd disease, susceptible to generate an inflammation or a stress (or both), several hyperglycemic factors will be secreted (catecholamines, cortisol, prolactin, TNFalpha...).
This hyperglycemia is first compensated by the secretion of insulin but at the same time, amylin is produced.
Amylin tends to polymerize around the beta cells of the pancreatic islets, and encourages their rapid death and the installation of diabetes (same if corticoides or progestagen are given).
If in addition, the cat is obese or suffers from hypokalemia, tissues become insulino-resistant (I'm really not sure about the english meaning of this sentence. In French, it is "Pour peu qu'il soit obèse et/ou hypokaliémique, les tissus sont insulinorésistants.").

Injections of insulin, by decreasing the glycemia, permit the renewing of beta cells and increase the insulin sensitivity, and a virtuous circle causes the healing of the cat.

Be careful: cystitis, stomatitis, corticoid,.... could increase the recurrence rate.

 

Hi Sophie! It is wonderful news that Capoo is dong so well.

About the about the explanation of toxic diabetes : That is exactly what I thought was happening, LOL

 

And on my side, I'm pretty convinced that the diabetes of Capoo was linked to what happened to my dog.

 

Was it steroid induced?

 

Not at all.
Last year, December 8th, my dog (Anoushka) died from a liver cancer (or let's say it more realistically: this day, a liver cancer at a final stage was diagnosed, no cure was practicable, and I had to take the more difficult decision of my life).
A liver cancer in a dog is really bull-****, as when it is diagnosed, it is already too late.
But Capoo was diagnosed with diabetes on November 15th, and I'm pretty sure that he was aware of something going wrong with Anoushka.
Of course, it's just my feeling, but I really suspect that Capoo was already feeling something wrong... Timing of both events matches too well....

 

Great to see Capoo doing well!!

From what I remember of my french your translation is good, except it is and/or (et/ou)

I hope the message gets through to grass root vets about HC not being good, as what we see here time after time is Cat's being put on Prescription diets, allegedly for diabetes, with a high carb content

I remember you talking about your dog when you first came on the board, who knows if Capoo and Anoushka were close whether there is any connection in both of them getting ill.

 

Your vet's explanation is the same as my understanding of at least some of the causes of insulin resistance and feline diabetes. Cats are unique in their ability for the pancreas' beta cells to heal and to begin putting out insulin again - if the damage was not too great. The longer the beta cells are damaged, the less chance they can heal. That's why time is really of the essence with treating diabetic cats and getting their blood sugar back into normal range.

People arrive here and want to have the cat get used to yellow numbers so they can ease into blue numbers, or they want to focus on stopping the bouncing by lowering the dose, but all of that is basically a waste of time if they are hoping for remission for their cat. If there is any chance for a cat's body to heal, it has to be gotten into normal numbers as soon as possible. That's the whole thing with the Tight Regulation Protocol. Going too slow can result in a cat's pancreas' beta cells not being able to recover. You can't rush things unsafely, but you can't dawdle endlessly either - at least not if one hopes for remission.

There are other common causes of diabetes beyond your vet's comments. Punkin's diabetes was caused by a benign tumor in his pituitary gland - which is common - called acromegaly. A recent study testing every single diabetic cat at the Royal Veterinary College showed that 1 in every 4 diabetic cats has that tumor. The beta cells have nothing to do with their diabetes, neither does their diet, obesity, concurrent illness or lack of activity. That likely means that we could look at the list of who posts here and figure that 1 in 4 have acro.

Were you feeding Capoo dry food before he became diabetic?

 

You might be interested in this post on feline diabetes and glucose toxicity. It's located in the "Basics: New to the Group?" sticky.

 

Yes, I was feeding him dry food : Hill's s/d because he was used to develop urinary stones.
Such a waste of times!

 

So happy to hear that Capoo is enjoying life at The Falls.

 

A personal note on the use of corticoids - specifically predisone/prednisolone - and diabetes: I've had two cats on prednisolone long-term and luckily neither developed diabetes. The second time I was aware of the danger and fed him low-carb, but with the first the vet didn't tell me and I had no idea. I was recently on high doses of prednisone myself for a year and can testify it really does raise blood sugar very significantly. I had to eat very low-carb, exercise, and struggle to lose weight just to keep it below levels that could cause damage. In cats - and people - who are vulnerable to developing diabetes it can tip the scales.

 

Yes, my cat is on prednisolone for asthma and has been so for quite a few years. I really wish my vet had told me about the danger of HC food and obesity with a cat that is on steroids. We have been able to reduce his pred dose quite a bit lately though. Does anyone know if the inhalers have less of an impact on BG levels? Right now we are still giving Plum oral meds because he fought the aerokat inhaler so much.

Sophie, my condolences on the loss of Anoushka. I'm assuming that is her in your profile picture. She is beautiful. We have a 6 year old shepherd "Neko"; she and Plum are great buddies.

 

Harvey became diabetic after being on Pred for a little more than 6 months (5 mg bid). When we reduced his dose to .25 mg once a day, his number started coming down, and now he's getting lovely greens on .5 units bid. Because we had Cinco, Harvey was already eating mostly low carb canned food, and when we put him on Pred I removed all dry from his diet (he used to get just a little as a snack). Steroids are definitely a factor in diabetes onset for many kitties. How interesting that @Camille and Cyclone's kitties did not get FD. I'm wondering if there is some genetic predisposition that makes them more likely to get it if one of the factors that have been mentioned here is added?

Sophie, I'm so sorry about your beloved dog. I'm glad Capoo is doing well OTJ, and I hope it stays that way for a long time. Thanks for sharing!

 

Yes, the inhaled steroids are easier on the BG than oral ones. Since the steroid is delivered directly to the lungs, there's less impact on the rest of the body

 

You could be so right about this. Animals that love one another are very in tune with each other and respond emotionally to each other. I have even seen that when I have had stressful times and have had problems with my GI tract, my dog, Lucy, has problems with her GI tract. We are very connected. I am sorry you went through that with Anoushka.

 

Hi,

My vet sent to me explanations about toxic diabetes, and of course, there are several other things that can generate this disease.
I think that he sent me this message because last time I saw him (one week ago, I bumped into him completely by chance), I told him that I was pretty sure the diabetes of Capoo was linked to the stress of having lost Anoushka.
By the way, I also spoke to him about GranataPet Symphonie food, and he was really astonished by the quality of the composition, and told me not to change anything.

I have also had very bad experiences with corticoids:
- First, with Anoushka. Corticoids were prescribed for an allergy problem, and she was unable to retain her pees. That was terrible times, as I had to wake up every two hours to give her a walk.
- Secondly, corticoids were prescribed to me, also for an allergy problem (prednisolone). I was unable to sleep for more than one week, and I enjoyed also problems of water retention and unpredictable needs to pee. I was completely inflated by water retention, and it wasn't the best time at all to buy shoes . I have the same problem of sleep when I take corticoids by inhalation.

 

Good to know, this is one of Georges main fuds too

 

Hi,

I want to share some further discussion I had with my vet:

When I received his email, with the explanation of toxic diabetes given by an endocrinology professor, I asked him "innocently":

"So, if I read well the explanation of the professor, it is an advocacy against dry food".

And my vet replied:

"Yes, your reading is correct.
A lot of cats hang on the edge, and if they gain too much weight, they are in danger if some kind of infection occurs.
Of course, I didn't learned that when I finished my vet studies in 1981.
I need to find a brand of dry food containing a lot of proteins, and very few carbs.
For the time being, no such food is referenced and available through veterinary central purchasing bodies".

And he finally told me, after having spent a lot of time looking for suitable dry food, that wet food is the solution, and that he will try to sell GranataPet or equivalent in his clinic as dry food is bullshit.


These are the statements of a vet and of an endocrinology professor....

 

Wish we had more vets like these in the US.