1.24 Bubba 86,+2-102.+3.5-93,+6-82.+9.5-82.PM- 60, + 2-99

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bobbie And Bubba

Bobbie And Bubba

Member Since 2015
Snow stopped finally and now the dig out starts. Not sure of the final count but in my estimation it could easily be 18 inches. Hope everyone in the path of the storm is safe and has power.

It's deja vu again this AM, another green start. Last night at +8 gave him a 1/4 can of LC when he was 69 to make sure I could shoot this AM. Question: Is 50 the lowest I want to shoot? If so maybe he didn't need the snack at 2:30 AM (+8)

Yesterday's News
 
Nice start for Bubba today. I hope he surfs safely. I think the lowest number to shoot is more of a know your cat thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting a number in the 50s.

I'm glad your snow has stopped and you still have power. Digging out is not fun.
 
Nice AMPS!

I agree with Carla on shooting low...it's all about knowing your cat and don't think anyone should shoot under 50.

Glad you are still with electric! Winter outages can be a real pain.
 
Morning! Another great start for Bubba! I am glad that you still have power and understand that the clean up is not so fun. Good luck with everything! I don't know about the snack. I guess it goes to what you feel comfortable shooting and what you can safely monitor.
 
Nice number!

Just to quote the sticky:
"The short answer is that most kitties can be shot at +12, almost regardless of the number, once you are data ready to do so. The exception is that shooting 30s or 40s is not recommended for most cats, so if a cat is lower then usually the best option is to wait until they are at a shootable number to shoot. What constitutes a shootable number will vary by cat, but we don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 50. While you’re waiting, the depot is draining, so you want to get the insulin in as soon as it makes sense to shoot."

I think that the decision to shoot at a given preshot number is really less about the absolute number and more about the trend it represents. Is the kitty on the way up at that point or down. Lots of past data helps you guess, but never truly "know." I've seen Rosie go up right after a shot and I've seen her go down. I took a quick glance a Bubba's SS and I saw the same just in the last few days.

It looks like Bubba did fine with your decision today!
 
Lydia & Rosie AKA &Basil said:
Nice number!

Just to quote the sticky:
"The short answer is that most kitties can be shot at +12, almost regardless of the number, once you are data ready to do so. The exception is that shooting 30s or 40s is not recommended for most cats, so if a cat is lower then usually the best option is to wait until they are at a shootable number to shoot. What constitutes a shootable number will vary by cat, but we don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 50. While you’re waiting, the depot is draining, so you want to get the insulin in as soon as it makes sense to shoot."

I think that the decision to shoot at a given preshot number is really less about the absolute number and more about the trend it represents. Is the kitty on the way up at that point or down. Lots of past data helps you guess, but never truly "know." I've seen Rosie go up right after a shot and I've seen her go down. I took a quick glance a Bubba's SS and I saw the same just in the last few days.

It looks like Bubba did fine with your decision today!
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for you reply. I want to be prepared as I shoot so early in the morning, 5:15-5:30 EST. Thanks again.:)
 
Woodsywife said:
He is doing so good. Glad you survived the storm. Only got a inch here. Sometimes it's good to be in the mountains. I guess I just have to eat my chocolate for no reason. :p
Click to expand...
Paula, I can't believe that you only got an inch! Lucky you! And yes you will have to bite the bullet and eat all the chocolate, cheese and crackers, and hard boil eggs.:):p
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Paula, I can't believe that you only got an inch! Lucky you! And yes you will have to bite the bullet and eat all the chocolate, cheese and crackers, and hard boil eggs.:):p
Click to expand...

Cheese and crackers won't go bad. They can wait for hubby. But chocolate.......we all know how fast that will go bad. Especially the Hershey nuggets, well can't let that happen now can I!!!! :cat:
 
I don't think anyone here will shoot under 50. The first opportunities I had to shoot low 50's I stalled even though Max always gets a food spike and often goes up substantially. I'd never shoot under 50 and I've heard the long timers say the same thing. Bubba is looking really good. Maybe a reduction in your future (anti-jinx)
 
For cats receiving Lantus, I would not suggest shooting below 50, in general, but I think Bubbs is doing so well and you have the data, that I would encourage you to shoot any number 50 and above on time with his current dose as long as you have the supplies and will be available to monitor.

Stay warm!!! Holy cow you all got some snow!!!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
For cats receiving Lantus, I would not suggest shooting below 50, in general, but I think Bubbs is doing so well and you have the data, that I would encourage you to shoot any number 50 and above on time with his current dose as long as you have the supplies and will be available to monitor.
Stay warm!!! Holy cow you all got some snow!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response, Marje and yes we got lots of snow. :blackeye:
 
Marje and Gracie said:
For cats receiving Lantus, I would not suggest shooting below 50, in general, but I think Bubbs is doing so well and you have the data, that I would encourage you to shoot any number 50 and above on time with his current dose as long as you have the supplies and will be available to monitor.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% and would like to add a few thoughts often glossed over or forgotten (call this a teaching moment)...

The preshot number is not the number you're shooting. When you shoot at shot time, the insulin is actually given for when onset occurs (*usually* 2 hours out for Lantus and 4 hours out for Levemir, BUT your mileage may vary). In other words, you're shooting for what's going to happen... not what's happening at the moment (shot time).

How do you know what's going to happen? You know your cat's response to insulin from the data you've collected:

  • You know when onset occurs (the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose).
  • You know the when the insulin *usually* reaches it's peak/nadir (the lowest point in the cycle).
  • You know how much duration your cat is getting from the insulin given (the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose)

The +1s, +2s, +10s, and +11s are often called "the forgotten spot checks". The forgotten spot checks are more useful than most realize.
  • The +1s and +2s will let you know what kind of food spike your cat usually gets after eating (if any). If you have collected the data to know what usually happens after you shoot and how long it usually takes for the insulin to start having an effect (onset), you may see that shooting low is actually very safe for your cat. If your cat typically rises through +1 and +2 before the insulin starts to work between +2 and +3, then you can feel comfortable knowing that your cat will actually be much higher before the insulin starts to work. If your cat typically has little to no food spike or an early onset, then you may need to be more conservative with low preshots. It is important to note that while Levemir may typically have a later onset than Lantus, that is not true for every cat. Know thy cat.
  • The +10s and +11s will help to keep you out of trouble! If your preshot is higher than +10 or +11, you know the insulin from that cycle is waning, the cat is on his way up, and the number is probably shootable. If you have a preshot that is much lower than your +10 or +11, knowing why will help you decide whether or not to shoot. Some Lantus and Levemir users notice a dip at the end of the cycle, meaning that the preshot is always a bit lower than +10 or +11 (but usually still higher than the nadir – the cat dips to a nadir at mid-cycle, then rises, then dips again). If this is your cat’s pattern, then this type of dip is not a reason to delay a shot. On the other hand, if your cat has a bounce clearing and is still careening downhill at shot time (usually characterized by numbers that drop for the whole cycle, without a clear nadir), then you will want to take that into consideration as you make a decision about shooting.
Last, but certainly not least...
A full understanding of the following concepts will go a long way in helping you regulate your kitty's blood glucose when using Lantus or Levemir:
  • Carryover - insulin effects lasting past the insulin's official duration
  • Overlap - the period of time when the effect of one insulin shot is diminishing and the next insulin shot is taking effect
  • Insulin Depot - a "spare tank" of insulin, which has yet to be used by the body
  • LANTUS & LEVEMIR: WHAT IS THE INSULIN DEPOT?
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).


Bottom line: Shooting a low preshot number of 50 or in the 50s doesn't have to feel uncomfortable if you're prepared, have done your homework, and are available to monitor.



Fun facts for regulating your diabetic kitty have been brought to you today by the info collected and posted for you in the following stickys:

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. :D





 
I like how you've been managing Bubba's curves. The curves are for the most part, a nice and strong green. I'd rather see a cat earn a reduction as suggested here rather than a single drop below 50:

"When the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50-80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week, attempt to reduce the dose."
http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

Keep on keepin' on! You're doing great! :D
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
I agree 100% and would like to add a few thoughts often glossed over or forgotten (call this a teaching moment)...

The preshot number is not the number you're shooting. When you shoot at shot time, the insulin is actually given for when onset occurs (*usually* 2 hours out for Lantus and 4 hours out for Levemir, BUT your mileage may vary). In other words, you're shooting for what's going to happen... not what's happening at the moment (shot time).

How do you know what's going to happen? You know your cat's response to insulin from the data you've collected:



    • You know when onset occurs (the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose).
    • You know the when the insulin *usually* reaches it's peak/nadir (the lowest point in the cycle).
    • You know how much duration your cat is getting from the insulin given (the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose)
The +1s, +2s, +10s, and +11s are often called "the forgotten spot checks". The forgotten spot checks are more useful than most realize.



    • The +1s and +2s will let you know what kind of food spike your cat usually gets after eating (if any). If you have collected the data to know what usually happens after you shoot and how long it usually takes for the insulin to start having an effect (onset), you may see that shooting low is actually very safe for your cat. If your cat typically rises through +1 and +2 before the insulin starts to work between +2 and +3, then you can feel comfortable knowing that your cat will actually be much higher before the insulin starts to work. If your cat typically has little to no food spike or an early onset, then you may need to be more conservative with low preshots. It is important to note that while Levemir may typically have a later onset than Lantus, that is not true for every cat. Know thy cat.



    • The +10s and +11s will help to keep you out of trouble! If your preshot is higher than +10 or +11, you know the insulin from that cycle is waning, the cat is on his way up, and the number is probably shootable. If you have a preshot that is much lower than your +10 or +11, knowing why will help you decide whether or not to shoot. Some Lantus and Levemir users notice a dip at the end of the cycle, meaning that the preshot is always a bit lower than +10 or +11 (but usually still higher than the nadir – the cat dips to a nadir at mid-cycle, then rises, then dips again). If this is your cat’s pattern, then this type of dip is not a reason to delay a shot. On the other hand, if your cat has a bounce clearing and is still careening downhill at shot time (usually characterized by numbers that drop for the whole cycle, without a clear nadir), then you will want to take that into consideration as you make a decision about shooting.
Last, but certainly not least...
A full understanding of the following concepts will go a long way in helping you regulate your kitty's blood glucose when using Lantus or Levemir:



    • Carryover - insulin effects lasting past the insulin's official duration
    • Overlap - the period of time when the effect of one insulin shot is diminishing and the next insulin shot is taking effect
    • Insulin Depot - a "spare tank" of insulin, which has yet to be used by the body
    • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).


Bottom line: Shooting a preshot number 50 or greater over doesn't have to feel uncomfortable if you're prepared, have done your homework, and are available to monitor.



Fun facts for regulating your diabetic kitty have been brought to you today by the info collected and posted for you in the following stickys:

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. :D
Click to expand...
Well thank you, Jill, all that info in one spot to reference. I thought I he'd be okay to shoot 50 but wanted to double check. This is cycle 5 in the greens and blues and I am thrilled and also anticipating that he will start to go down the dosing ladder. At first I was wondering if my feeding too much and not allowing him to earn a reduction was a bad thing but after reading Sienne and Gabby's response to Ivana this AM, I am starting to understand that the longer I can keep him in these numbers no matter what the dose, the better. Below if the post for reference.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...263-pmps-203-2-151-3-137.151491/#post-1587573
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
I like how you've been managing Bubba's curves. The curves are for the most part, a nice and strong green. I'd rather see a cat earn a reduction as suggested here rather than a single drop below 50:

"When the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50-80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week, attempt to reduce the dose."
http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

Keep on keepin' on! You're doing great! :D
Click to expand...
Now that really cements in all for me. Thanks!
 
PM - 1st number was 50, 2nd number was 74. I put 60 on the title thread, went in the middle.....shot 5 u.
 
Last edited:
It's much easier for us with later onset and later nadir cats to shoot the 50's. I see Bubba read the condo and gave you that opportunity tonight.:D I've shot a 51, but stalled at 49 - go figure!

Bubba is officially ROCKING this dose. :woot:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
It's much easier for us with later onset and later nadir cats to shoot the 50's. I see Bubba read the condo and gave you that opportunity tonight.:D I've shot a 51, but stalled at 49 - go figure!

Bubba is officially ROCKING this dose. :woot:
Click to expand...
Yeah right?? How about that? I asked about the 50 earlier and he is trying me. I am thrilled with this dose! Keep it up Bubba!
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
PM - 1st number was 50, 2nd number was 74. I put 60 on the title thread, went in the middle.....shoot 5 u.
Click to expand...
Nice PS number(s)! :D

As much as I'd like to see him keep this dose for a week before taking a reduction, be on alert. He may have other ideas.
Often times kitty will drop early when looking for a reduction. I wouldn't do anything different. Just watch for it.

He's been so accommodating. We're almost due for him showing us he's in charge! :rolleyes:
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Nice PS number(s)! :D

As much as I'd like to see him keep this dose for a week before taking a reduction, be on alert. He may have other ideas.
Often times kitty will drop early when looking for a reduction. I wouldn't do anything different. Just watch for it.

He's been so accommodating. We're almost due for him showing us he's in charge! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Okay, I will be on alert. He is definitely the leader in the dance. I am trying to be a good student and take his leads. How weird is it that I asked about the 50 today? ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top