1/24 Dakota AMPS 139 GREEN and GREEN and 33 and GREEN!

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Squeaky and KT (GA)

Squeaky and KT (GA)

Member Since 2011
Good Afternoon World! Welcome to our GREEN home! Last Condo

AMPS 139 (dropped to 1unit)
+2 - 71
+3 - 67
+4 - 90

OH MY GOSH! Where's Mr. Green? And GREEN and GREEN!!!! Mr. Dakota decided to dive into the lagoon and swim for a LOOOOOONG time! He's STILL swimming too! He even hit the rocks at 3am throwing me a 33 (retest 34) this morning. We haven't even seen yellow since AMPS yesterday! I have NO idea why he decided to do this after 1.5 years. He's feeling well, sort of sniggly about food. I didn't have a well stocked hypo kit - only 3 cans. When we had KT, it was always 6-8 cans but since last August, it's been slowly used without being replaced. Resorted to Karo to slow that drop in this morning's cycle. DH is in full paralysis even after 3 potassium doses so can't go get more - we'll do fine tho', no worry there.


YESTERDAY/LAST NIGHT:

AMPS 233
+2 - 143
+4 - 98
+6 - 84
+8 - 95
+9 - 78
+10 - 131
+11 - 153
PMPS 180
+1 - 112
+2 - 121 (thought this was bounce starting so went to bed)
+4 - 111 (OK, so about the same, history still says bounce back to bed)
+6 - 33!! WHAT? REALLY? That woke me up! Retest 34! 1/2 of 3oz can gravy food
+6.5 - 50
+7 - 66 Rest of 3oz can gravy food
+7.5 - 71
+8 - 82 Looks like he's going up from food so shutting eyes again
+10 - 92 still up so btb again
+11 - 106 Ate tbsp MC gravy food

Have 2 more coughing little doggies - I thought we'd gotten rid of that germ without the last 2 getting it...no such luck.

Thoughts and prayers continue for Laura and Skinky, Suzanne losing Cobb, Jen losing Booger and Tonya losing Tiki. It's been so sad on our board lately...too many leaving at once. Our local rescue that we work with also lost 14 pups between premature births and parvo - sad here too.

All else is well.

HUGS to all that visit today! DANCE WITH US!
 
You forgot the +2 "rule"!

If the +2 is lower than the pre-shot, kitty could very well be making a major move...and it looks like that's just what Doc did!

Sure happy you caught that 33, but I bet it DID wake you up!!

Looking great Doc!! Keep up the beautiful surf!
 
Yo Doc, You didn't have to go to extremes! Do you need the waterwings?
~ Rusty, LagoonMeister

Lyresa, what a day you are having! Looks like Doc is making waves. Karo works just fine when added to LC. Sorry to hear that your DH is not doing well today and hope that he will be OK again very soon (like tonight).
Poor doggies. Sending vines!
Yes, it has been a very rough few days in L&L. So much sadness.

Hoping you will have a good evening and a good rest of the weekend,

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Ella & Rusty
 
Am I reading the notes on your SS correctly in that you're splitting the dose? That 33 is the reason we don't do this. I really, really want to discourage you from splitting the dose with either of the "L" insulins. You'll ultimately end up with way too much overlap between the doses and at some point, you're going to risk not being able to get the numbers up. Did I happen to mention this strategy was a bad idea? (It's sort of like shooting R along with either Lantus or Lev and having the nadirs overlap -- not a good idea,)
 
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Yes we really do need Mr Green for the subject line.

Sending vines for DH and the pups but for Doc ………
HobbsDancing.gif


I KNOW I posted earlier!
 
Just checked your spreadsheet. Do you have plenty of HC, test strips, and syrup?

He has had 2 low cycles, no bounce yet, and several early shots. He has a LOT of overlap going on so be very alert.

If this is something you plan to continue experimenting with, keep in mind that normally if someone is going to shoot more often than BID, we suggest reducing the dose at first to LESS than their total daily dose on BID because the extra overlap can help out. If they don't get a chance to go so high, the insulin doesn't have to work as hard so they don't always need as much of it. So if the BID dose is 2 units (4 units a day) and you want to shoot TID, a good starting dose for TID might be 1 unit TID. The down side, as you're seeing, is that shooting more frequently can result in a lot more monitoring while you figure out that dose.

+10 shots can work great on occasion for bouncy cats. I don't think I would have followed that with another shot given at onset, and that is probably what led to the 33. It looks like you had the onset of one shot grabbing on to the nadir of the previous one. When I have suggested this technique in the past, I have usually just suggested giving the regular dose at +10 and then giving the next shot at +12 after that, and doing it only when they know a bounce is starting (because just when you expect them to bounce, they won't). You have to figure out what works for your individual cat, of course, but that's usually a good starting point.
 
FIRST - New people - PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW ANYTHING I TRIED HERE!!! Doc forgot to read the FD manual. We've followed protocol for a long time all the way up to almost 5 units and nothing worked.

@Sienne and Gabby - yes I shot one split dose of HALF his regular f2.0 2 hours early then the other on time yesterday. If I had shot his regular dose or even 3/4ths the dose twice, I can see the issue but I didn't - at the 12 hour mark, it's not any different than giving him the full 2 units other than allowing some to begin working a bit earlier in the cycle. I know it's not anything normal but, other than the 33 I should have watched for closer, he's had the best day he's had by far. He's held normal numbers, he's not bounced. He's feeling well, he's been out watching squirrel TV, he's not visiting the water bowl often. As you can see, we've tested and tested and watched and tested and tested some more. Today I shot early in the pm cycle but am not planning to give any more until tomorrow.

@Libby and Lucy - I've got 240 test strips, I now have HC, I have Karo AND I have an alarm clock. :) As I said above, I did not shoot a full dose twice. I shot a split dose of 1 unit each yesterday evening and shot early this evening (afternoon) but I don't plan to shoot again until tomorrow morning. I was hoping to stop the bounce or at least slow it down so he won't end up in the 500's again. That will make him short 1 unit of what we've been dosing. He's not been using Levemir 12 hours which I believe is part of the problem, it poops out early. He's also not using it completely like a depot insulin either. He may end up back in the 200's - even 300's by AMPS tomorrow but that's where he's usually been so we've lost nothing by trying a different approach. We've only hit the double digits for 2 hours this whole month. Raising his dose hasn't worked either.

Overall, except for the 33 last night which I'm not convinced is due to that split shot, this has given him the longest run of normal numbers since he arrived 17 months ago.

TODAY:
AMPS 139
+2 - 71
+3 - 67
+4 - 90
+6 - 120
+7 - 151 - (PMPS-1u)
+2 - 149
+3 - 174

I suspect the bounce is finally starting. THANK YOU ALL for your concern! AND the dances!
 
Had you given any thought to using R if you were that concerned about Doc's numbers? I think it would be a safer alternative especially given your limitations on PM testing. Either Libby or Marje or one of the other experienced R users could guide you.
 
@Sienne and Gabby - I've asked about it a couple of times before but have been discouraged from trying it. We're at the point we must do SOMETHING different and continuing raising the dose isn't it. This plodding along with these ugly numbers just isn't good.

THANK YOU for suggesting it...
 
I think it will be a much safer alternative than split dosing. You also can use it during the day and not worry about overlap into the PM cycle. I do think you need to be diligent though because it is very potent. Please talk to Libby or Marje or one of the others who have used R. I understand it's use but I've not used it myself. They may have good reason for discouraging you.
 
I agree that the 33 was caused by the split dose. Also all the rest of these numbers were caused by it. They're nice numbers overall, as long as the insulin doesn't keep pulling them even lower. I would keep an eye on the next few cycles. He had 2 units yesterday morning, 2 units total last night, 2 units total this daytime cycle (including the +7). So he has had his normal amount in the 36 hours up until tonight. We always say that an early shot is similar to a dose increase. I think that is overly simplified, but if you think of it that way, you could say that he had the equivalent of MORE than his usual dose because several of those shots were given early.

Overlap just means that one shot is still working when another one is starting to work. It doesn't really matter how much the dose was if you are piling them on top of each other in a different way. Even if the numbers are heading up, the insulin is still "there" and working, just not at full strength. Learning to use the overlap to your advantage can be a huge step toward regulation (the long cycles are why Lantus and Levemir work so well for most cats), but it can backfire if you don't understand how you are impacting the cycle. And since Levemir and Lantus are depot insulins, each change can affect more than one cycle. Again, you can use that to your advantage but it can also be fairly easy to mess up if you're not careful.

Waiting until +19 to shoot tomorrow might cause a setback. Maybe not, if the depot and additional overlap help him get through. What if you test at +12 after the +7 shot and see where he is? If he's bouncing then I would shoot at +12. If he's still pretty low then you'll have to use your judgment about whether enough of the extra stuff is out of his system. I would not recommend shooting any earlier than +12 since you are coming off a +7 shot.
 
@Libby and Lucy - let me be sure I'm understanding your suggestion:

Test at what will be +12 off that +7 (4am) and shoot then unless he's too low to shoot.

He's heading up now, already in high 100's, so I suspect he'll be plenty high then. He's rising slower than he has in a long time - not really zooming, just slowly going up each hour, MUCH better than going from 200 to 500 in an hour or two. I believe this rise is due to only 1 unit his last shot at +7 but there's no way to tell for sure. I suspect all the 'extra stuff' is being used right now.

Thank you again!

EDIT TO ADD: He's slowed down the rise and dropped a bit again - his +6.5 is 154, his +5 was 183. Soooo we're not bouncing yet.
 
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I do remember our discussions about R. I don't think we were discouraging it so much as just laying out the things you would have to consider, like how the evening cycle could be a busy one if you used R in the a.m. cycle, and how that would impact your ability to sleep and care for your DH.

I also don't think split dosing is the answer here. Shooting at +10 when he's firing up can help but that would have you moving your schedule around alot. If you shot at +10 one cycle, which might be 6 a.m., then you'd shoot 12 hours from that. There might be times you could shoot later but your schedule might be changing.

if you look at Jill's Alex's first SS, you'll see how she shot early and late sometimes to catch the bounce before it got going. It's a good example.
 
yes, I was suggesting shooting at +12. You took a risk to get the numbers down, and you got them. Letting him climb until +19 would probably undo it all. I can't suggest a dose because I don't really understand what you've been doing so I don't know how to predict what will happen next.
 
@Tina & Sami - 'R' insulin is 'Regular Insulin' and is very strong.

F2u is 'Fat 2 units' - not quite up to 2.25 units but more than 2 units.

This is VERY CUSTOM for Dakota only - he's a long time diabetic that hasn't been responding to anything 'normal'. There's a long review of this in today's condo - here's the LINK TO TODAY
 
Squeaky and KT said:
@Tina & Sami - 'R' insulin is 'Regular Insulin' and is very strong.

F2u is 'Fat 2 units' - not quite up to 2.25 units but more than 2 units.

This is VERY CUSTOM for Dakota only - he's a long time diabetic that hasn't been responding to anything 'normal'. There's a long review of this in today's condo - here's the LINK TO TODAY
Click to expand...


@Squeaky and KT, I started reading today's condo which is what lead me here. I will finish reading that. Thanks for the explanation on F2U.

I am still confused about 'R" Regular Insulin, is this like a different brand or something that you would use if the cat isn't responding. I am just trying to understand the lingo.
 
@Tina & Sami - it's a different type of insulin. It's normally used by vet's or very experienced diabetic cat owners. Just a tiny bit can bomb numbers badly but is used to pull down high numbers. It's also used at times for those cats that are insulin resistant or Acro cats.
 
@Tina & Sami

"R" is Humulin Regular or Novolin Regular insulin depending on where you buy it. Walmart sells Novolin R and it is much cheaper than Humulin R.

R is used for many reasons.
--by very experienced caregivers as a bolus at the by beginning of a bounce so numbers will not go higher (please note that it is not used in this instance to pull high numbers down)
--by caregivers of acro or IAA cats to help break through the high numbers and insulin resistance
--by vets in the clinic if a kitty has high numbers from, for example, DKA to get numbers down. The basal insulins, Lantus and levemir, are not good at yanking numbers down and R can bring the numbers down quickly.

R has to be used with extreme caution and we recommend anyone starting to use it, do it with assistance from one of the several experienced caregivers here that use it. A very tiny amount can drop numbers drastically if not given at the correct time in the cycle.
 
I am new to this myself so I cant help much but I was looking at Dakota's SS and curious why 1/2 of 2014 is not there. Did he go OTJ? I am going to follow you because my Rooh is all over the place too, and bounces fast and high. We have only been at this for 2 months though.

Does Dakota have any other illnesses besides FD? I know I recently read that some cats need insulin more often than 2x a day.
 
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