? 1/30/2020 Still have a few questions regarding regulation and Io

Jazmin

Jazmin

Member Since 2015
So Monday night Io tested 135 PMPS. I gave him .5 insulin since he had a history with DKA, and stayed up to check his BG every hour. Should I do the same tonight? What's with the low PMPS numbers?
 
Jazmin said:
I feel like Im testing him a fair amount but I may need to up it more. I just feel bad for his poor lil ears
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You are doing a good job of testing. The more data you have the better. It will help you see how your cat responds . It was hard when we first started testing, but Blackie sits and lets me test no problem. It doesn't seem to bother him. Remember everything you're doing is to help your fur baby.
 
It's up to you when you feel ready to give Io his full dose when you get a low PS number. If you have the time, the confidence, and all the tools, shooting a full dose with a PS number that is lower than what you're used to is the goal.

Lantus also likes consistency. Giving different doses can upset the depot and make it hard to predict.

Jazmin said:
What's with the low PMPS numbers?
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Many of us like Lantus/depot insulins for the flat curves they produce. There's a popular saying here: shoot low to stay low. They're different from in-and-out insulins like ProZinc or Vetsulin where the PS number is quite important when shooting as those insulins tend to PULL blood sugar levels down. Whereas Lantus is much gentler. When you shoot low, curves tend to be flatter.

In Io's case, it looks like he's clearing a bounce today and perhaps the depot is filling up by you shooting 1 unit consistently for 3 cycles.

I think you should make it your homework to choose a dosing method that you'll be able to manage and feel confident following. Read the dosing methods post carefully and decide. You can always switch methods whenever you need to. It makes it easier for us to give you advice and it gives more concrete guidelines to follow when a method is chosen. :)

Good job testing after dosing!
 
Crista & Ming said:
It's up to you when you feel ready to give Io his full dose when you get a low PS number. If you have the time, the confidence, and all the tools, shooting a full dose with a PS number that is lower than what you're used to is the goal.

Lantus also likes consistency. Giving different doses can upset the depot and make it hard to predict.


Many of us like Lantus/depot insulins for the flat curves they produce. There's a popular saying here: shoot low to stay low. They're different from in-and-out insulins like ProZinc or Vetsulin where the PS number is quite important when shooting as those insulins tend to PULL blood sugar levels down. Whereas Lantus is much gentler. When you shoot low, curves tend to be flatter.

In Io's case, it looks like he's clearing a bounce today and perhaps the depot is filling up by you shooting 1 unit consistently for 3 cycles.

I think you should make it your homework to choose a dosing method that you'll be able to manage and feel confident following. Read the dosing methods post carefully and decide. You can always switch methods whenever you need to. It makes it easier for us to give you advice and it gives more concrete guidelines to follow when a method is chosen. :)

Good job testing after dosing!
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What does it mean clearing a bounce? Also how/when do you know if it’s possible to go off insulin? If he’s constantly in low numbers? Obviously I’m sure everyone wants their babies to be off insulin, but I’m really hoping it’s a possibility for Io. Next time I get a low ps number should I give him his normal 1 unit instead of .5?
 
Jazmin said:
Next time I get a low ps number should I give him his normal 1 unit instead of .5?
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As long as you have plenty of supplies and can test as often and as long as necessary, there's no reason for you to be afraid of lower Pre-shots. On TR, you eventually learn to shoot anything over 50. Check out China's spreadsheet to see how well lantus can work when given at low numbers (but of course I didn't start shooting lows!...but when I had enough data and understood more about how she reacted to food and insulin, I started shooting lower and lower)

Since you're still fairly new to all this, shoot the scheduled dose if he's over 150...if he's under 150, stall, don't feed and test again in 20-30...Use that time to post for help (and make sure your subject line indicates you need help quickly...you can always change it back later)
 
Jazmin said:
What does it mean clearing a bounce?
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Are you familiar with the definition of bouncing? (Asking because it took me some time to fully understand it and it was one of the things I found difficult to understand in the beginning).

When a cat is clearing a bounce, it means numbers start trending downward. You can see this morning, Io started in pink and his numbers continued to go down in value. When cats clear a bounce, sometimes it adds momentum and you may see numbers falling down quite quickly (called "diving") after giving insulin.

Right now, his PS may be low for you, but to me, it's a safe number. Of course, we don't know how Io will react if you shot a full dose since you've never done that. The only way to know is to be prepared, do it, and TEST TEST TEST! Like Chris said, there is no reason not to shoot that number if you're ready.

Jazmin said:
lso how/when do you know if it’s possible to go off insulin?
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Io wil tell you either by earning a reduction by going too low or being in good numbers (under 100) for a week (on Tight Regulation). The smallest dose we have given kitties is ONE DROP. We want to keep kitties on insulin for as long as possible so that the success of staying remission is even stronger. Those are called OTJ trials.

Io isn't there yet, unfortunately.
 
Crista & Ming said:
Are you familiar with the definition of bouncing? (Asking because it took me some time to fully understand it and it was one of the things I found difficult to understand in the beginning).

When a cat is clearing a bounce, it means numbers start trending downward. You can see this morning, Io started in pink and his numbers continued to go down in value. When cats clear a bounce, sometimes it adds momentum and you may see numbers falling down quite quickly (called "diving") after giving insulin.

Right now, his PS may be low for you, but to me, it's a safe number. Of course, we don't know how Io will react if you shot a full dose since you've never done that. The only way to know is to be prepared, do it, and TEST TEST TEST! Like Chris said, there is no reason not to shoot that number if you're ready.


Io wil tell you either by earning a reduction by going too low or being in good numbers (under 100) for a week (on Tight Regulation). The smallest dose we have given kitties is ONE DROP. We want to keep kitties on insulin for as long as possible so that the success of staying remission is even stronger. Those are called OTJ trials.

Io isn't there yet, unfortunately.
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I think I understand bouncing now thank you. Are the different regulation styles just the difference in how you increase dosing? Im kind of confused by that, and if what Io and I are doing right now is TR or just nothing. Also are most vets familiar with the two regulation styles or is that something I have to bring up
 
The dosing methods let you know how much and when to test, how long to hold the dose, and the reduction point/what number we would reduce. As well, with TR, you must not be feeding dry.

Since you've been changing Io's dose, every time you change, the number count of cycles restarts. Plus, you just started giving Io insulin. We usually ask caregivers to hold the initial dose for at least 7 days to let the depot build up and then think about dose changes. I'm not comfortable giving dosing advice for you right now so I'm hoping another member can guide you with whether or not you have to continue holding the 1 unit dose for another 7 days.

You do test enough to do TR, save for that one cycle where you didn't get any tests. Was there a reason for that? If you think you can commit to testing a couple of times in each cycle and am comfortable with faster increases, a lower reduction point (50 is when you would reduce with TR. With SLGS, the reduction point is 90), then TR is a good dosing method. Plus Io can't be eating any dry foods.

As for your vets, you can always print out the dosing method post for them to read. As well as the paper that it is based on for them.

I think you'll need to go back to the dosing method post and re-read everything. It can be very confusing, I know. And I still re-read that post all the time. Keep asking questions so we can help you :)
 
Crista & Ming said:
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I think you'll need to go back to the dosing method post and re-read everything. It can be very confusing, I know. And I still re-read that post all the time. Keep asking questions so we can help you :)
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I like this. We are new as well and have made some mistakes for sure. I find I'm re-reading the dosing stickies everyday because it's very dense and hard for me to really understand.
 
Crista & Ming said:
You do test enough to do TR, save for that one cycle where you didn't get any tests. Was there a reason for that?
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If that was the first one that was before I got insulin for him only the bg meter and I just wanted to try the meter

Thank you for your help I will reread
 
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