1/5 Utyun PMPS 431

Could not copy previous thread.

It is cold rain today.
Utyun is a huge enormous bounce・・・
I really do not know what to do.
AM became lime green so I got lost but made it to 0.25 U.

 

Here is your previous thread
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-2-utyun-amps-341.188980/

On TR a visit below 50, would usually earn a reduction for a newly diagnosed kitty. (under one year since diagnosed with diabetes)

I notice that Utyun has diabetes for over a year now. So that would class him as a long term diabetic. On TR with a long term diabetic, the following guidelines apply for reductions

1) 3 times, on different days, below 50 but above 40
2) one drop below 40, immediate reduction.


This is from a post by Jill (don't worry if it is to much for you to read, given the language barrier, I have supplied it for you but it is also for anyone else reading your thread)

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ng-reductions-and-starting-otj-trials.150160/
Long term diabetics - more than one year since diagnosis

• reduction *earned* after a single drop below 40 mg/dL for those following TR, or
• reduction *earned* after 3 drops between 40 - 50 mg/dL on three separate days for kitties who have shown they do not hold reductions well and following TR, or
• reduction *earned* when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one weekand following TR.

• reduction *earned* after a single drop below 90 mg/dL for those following SLGS.

We highly suggest taking a reduction any time any kitty drops into the 30s or below. There are very few exceptions given for caregivers following TR who have collected years of data and KNOW their cat's response to the combination of insulin and food backwards, forwards, and inside out.

 

You can hold this dose for now and see how it goes, but bear in mind my comment above the next time he goes lime green.

 

Hi Gill! I appreciate your support.

Today especially Google does not go well. I am sorry if my sentence is strange.
Is that more than one year of diabetes decreasing 40 to 50 three times on different days?

I would like to ask you again today,
A healthy cat has a blood sugar level of 50 to 80 mg,
I do not know the normal blood sugar level before Utyun becomes diabetic
For example, if the numerical value of about 100 was normal
Are 60 and 50 very low for that child?

 

Yes, it's 3 times under 50, but over 40 on different days. Hope Utyun stops bouncing for you soon.

 

Hi Stacy!
Thank you so much for telling me
Your Asia is getting very good blood glucose
Asia is lovely!

 

Are you worried that 60(human meter) is too low for Utyun?
Are you seeing symptoms of low blood sugar when he is in the 50- 60(human meter) range?

I've read that most cats stay in that 50-80 range (generally below 100).
It is true that we do not know what our cats BG is before diagnosis.
Going from readings people get on their healthy cats, I can't remember any where their non-diabetic is in the 100 range, it is more usual for people to find that their healthy non diabetic cat is quite low (in the 40's)

My Cat George, who is diabetic but is in remission (1 year 9 months) blood glucose, typically runs a little higher, 70 to 100, I still check every morning.
When on insulin he was fine when in the 50's and 60's quite happy and active. When his blood glucose was in the 40's he would demand food, got very hungry, but no other symptoms.

 

Gill, Thank you so much for always telling me.
When Utyun falls within the range of 50 - 60 (human meter) (it is not hardly) there is no symptom of hypoglycemia.
But, as bouncing becomes severe when it is less than 60
If possible, I would like to take it to around 80 to 100, but is it a stupid idea? ...
Things never work out as you expect.
Especially Utyun is difficult to control.
But I'll do my best!
Thank you again.

 

Hi Kaori! You're doing great! Bounces are frustrating. But they do clear. My healthy cat Millie is usually between 45 and 60 bg.

 

This is exactly the question I was asking myself regarding Quintus. I looked at his blood sugar levels in past analysis and it was between 90 and 150 depending on the years. These were tests at the vet so they are real numbers. The value could be elevated because of stress from being at the vet.

I personally decided to stop insulin to see what happened. It has only been a few days but so far I am happy with my decision. I believe that the higher numbers I was seeing with Quintus on the last days with insulin were him bouncing because insulin was bringing his numbers a little too low for him.

This is just my opinion.

As you are using a human meter it is probable the "real values" are a little higher than what you are measuring.

Normally a cat with glucose levels around 100 upon analysis will not be considered to have a problem. Pre-diabetic would be from 150 and higher.

One must also compare the risk of slightly high BG without insulin, and the risk of hypo if there is a little too much insulin. Particularly if one is not there to monitor and the cat is already on a very small dose of insulin.

Again, this is just my opinion.

 

The numbers I quoted are what I have seen with folk using their own human meters measuring cats BG at home.

Interesting that George with my Human meter was 80 at home ant 160 with my human meter at the vet.
I know that Wendys non diabetic cat was over 200 when checked at vet back down to 50's at home.

 

Hi Kaori,
You must find a dose that Utyun can have while you are in hospital. You don't want him to go too low. BG a little higher might be the best thing. The dose of 0.25 u might be OK. We can watch your spread sheet to see.

 

As he spends more time in those lower numbers you may find that the bouncing becomes less than it is now.

It is true that when he is in the 80-100 range he doesn't bounce quite so high.

If you look back you can see in your ss, that Utyun used to bounce quite high even when he just got into the 90's, now when he goes to 90 he doesn't go straight to red, that is progress.

I hope that you will see the same happen with those slightly lower greens. His ss looks less colourful now.

 

Kaori I missed this, I hope it is nothing serious.

When are you going into hospital? Do you have an idea for how long?
Who will be looking after your dear boy? Will they test??

 

Hi Gill,
Kaori posted a few weeks ago that she will be in hospital sometime this month. Her 17 year old daughter is willing to give insulin shots to Utyun but not do BG testing (a little blood phobia it seems). We've been thinking about a low, safe dose Utyun can have for several days of no testing. That's the source of my comment.

 

Heidi, Thank you for your encouragement.

 

[QUOTE = "Kris＆Teasel、投稿：2104463、メンバー：15898"]こんにちは、
病院にいる間、Utyunが受けることができる線量を見つけなければなりません。あなたは彼があまりにも低くなることを望んでいません。少し高いBGがベストかもしれません。0.25μの線量はOKかもしれません。私たちはあなたのスプレッドシートを見ることができます。 [/見積もり]

Kris, Thank you always.
Yes, I do not want to get too low.
I will consider what will happen with 0.25U OK or the remaining 4 days.

 

Thank you, Gill
I will be hospitalized for 10 days from January 11
I can not test the house during that time.
So here I asked everyone about the amount of insulin safe for Utyun.
I am truly grateful for everyone's help.

 

With Utyun having had DKA in the past this puts him at greater risk of developing it again, especially if he is not getting enough insulin, not eating, stress, gets an infection. So it is a fine balance between him going to low with too much insulin and him not getting enough insulin and having that lead to another episode of DKA.

If your daughter were to see that Utyun was not eating his usual amount, appeared lethargic, just seemed to be sick in some way, it is important that she knows to take some action.
It is important to make your daughter aware of these signs/symptoms and to have a plan for what she should do if Utyun were to develop these.
Maybe if you have time you can right her a 'Utyun Manual' with instructions on what to do?

Maybe you can show her how to check for ketones?
Will she be in the house with Utyun? Or will Utyun be on his own most of the time?
Do you think Utyun will be stressed because you are not there?

By getting a urine sample, and using the ketostix. I think this would be a good idea, especially as she cannot monitor BG, being able to screen for these will be a very useful tool especially as she won't be monitoring BG.

We can always help her if she is able/willing to post here. So perhaps show her how to log on and post, just in case she needs help?

@Kris & Teasel am I right in thinking you or some other members speak japanese?? This might be helpful to Kaori's daughter.

Another option would of course be to get her to take him to the vet, if your daughter felt that something was wrong.

We should look at how he is doing by the end of tomorrow to see if the 0.25 dose is a good one for while you are in hospital. It is good he came back down into yellow.

 

Hi Gill,
No, I don't speak Japanese. However, @Kako & Tux does and she has posted recently. I asked her then if she would be willing to help with translation. I have experience teaching English as a second language so I tried to simplify some things for Kaori. I think Google translate might work better if sentence structure is simple.

 

I agree.

 

Hi Gill
I have been to work from +5 today.
At night I was taking a lecture on insulin to my daughter.
Utyun was 272 at +4. Then 446 in PMPS!
It was 272 on +4, so I thought that there would not be a sharp drop thereafter.
This is due to bounce OR insulin shortage
0.25 U may not be enough ...

If insulin taught by Gill is insufficient, I think about the risk of DKA.
Ketone tests are sometimes done.
I also would like my daughter to check the ketone.
I write down notes in detail, but she has too much to remember
Her head may be a bit confused.

Gill, I really appreciate it.

 

I am sure your daughter will do her best.

We are here if she needs us.

 

Hi! I had procedures on the 5th. I'm fine, I am back on FDMB this morning.

 

@Gill & George , Kaori will be hospitalized about 10 days starting on 1/11.

I am sorry that I am writing on the thread made on 1/5.

かおりさん、入院中に娘さんが何か質問したいことがあったら、ここにスレッド立てれば皆でお助けします。私も来ます。ですから安心してください。
前回のスレッドを貼り付ける方法は、上のボックスに見えてるアドレス（ここなら http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-5-utyun-pmps-431.189145/#post-2105245）をCopy して Paste するだけです。
次回ここに来たら、また新しいスレッドを立てて、ここのスレッドをCopy して貼り付けてくださいね。できなかったら大丈夫です。私が貼り付けます。

 

It's great that you're here to help, Kako!

 

Kako, is your body OK?
I'm sorry I had to rely on myself only when Kako was important.
Please please take care of the body.
I am grateful to you for your kindness.