10/23 Tiny Sole +10: 107, +11: 163, PMPS: 178, 2.75 U at 7:25pm

Joanne&TinySole

Joanne&TinySole

Very Active Member
Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-96-8-5-82-9-95-9-5-95-10-93-10-5-146.205239/

10/22 RECAP:

AMPS: 83
3 U lantus given at 7:45 AM
+2: 163
+5: 201
+9: 154
+11: 123
PMPS: 153
+3: 118
+4: 91
+5: 131 (now Tues 10/23, 12 AM)
+6: 94
+7: 70 2 AM; 2 tsp MC food given
+7.5: 104
+8: 96; gave 3 Temptation treats
+8.5: 82; gave tsp of LC mixed with MC
+9: 95; gave 10 Temptation treats mashed in water at 4:15 AM
+9.5: 95 waiting for the previous food to impact the BG
+10: 93 still going down. gave more LC mixed with MC and a little butter mixed with honey
+10.5: 146 FINALLY UP, but I know it's all food related
+11: 176
10/23 AMPS: 131
No AM Shot
+2: 112
+3: 157
+6: 151
+9: 107 going lower again!
+11: 163 ...thank the heavens.
PMPS: 178

I imagine that I did not go about this in a manner that would likely be recommended, but of course, Tiny Sole decided to drop throughout the night :banghead: and guidance was focused elsewhere, or asleep :smuggrin: ...rightfully so, I might add. So, I did my best to keep her out of hypo. I'd have given her a chocolate cake if she wanted it!

I've not slept all night. I have work that I need to go to at some point today; I'm going to try to catch an hour or two of sleep and see how I feel. This was not my idea of a fun night up, but it was what it was.

Please go gentle on my when you critique my methodology.

It is likely that she is not getting a shot this morning, unless someone can talk me into it. I have zero desire to repeat last night any time soon!

XOXO, Joanne
 
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Absolutely beautiful numbers last night! Those numbers are what you want to see:bighug:
I think with alpha track your safe and still in greens until 69
I would wait and see what she is at amps and post, put ? Mark for dose advice
 
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I agree with @Bellasmom - get another test this morning as soon as you can - looks like you've had an awfully busy night - as soon as you can catch your breath please update the SS - at least the last few hours before AMPS - 10+, 11+ - since she's still coming up - the AMPS will be a good indicator of whether to proceed with a shot. The thing about skipping is that it allows the depot to deplete - is that what you want? It might be? But the experts can better help you with that issue. Sometimes when you're struggling to keep her from going too low that's just what you will want to do...skipping a shot would do that - but then you're back to dealing with higher numbers.

This going low business is just what it takes to get them into remission - not fun - but appears to be the path down the dosing ladder...it requires all your powers of testing and staying awake to get them down that ladder safely. I understand your reluctance to want a repeat of last night - I would be calling for reinforcements myself...no fun at all...but be brave and you were planning to shoot a reduced dose this morning, right? Get out your balls of steel and try to figure out how much sleep you can live without...hang in there...add that '?' to your title this morning to get specific dosing advice.

I posted pics of my hypo kit for you and Krystina this morning - hope you'll have a chance to get to the store(s) and load up with supplies :) Sending hugs and lots of support your way! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Well, my friends, I was up a full 24 hours. When she hit 176 at +11, my head hit the pillow and I just woke up at 9:30 AM.
I can't do that frequently, or too often. I'd have not had an issue with the kind of night we had if it had occurred during the day, but I never was a good 3rd-shifter.

My BOS melted this morning. I never really felt panicky last night, although I did wish that Cindy (& Taco) and I had a little more company, but I didn't expect it, really. I was so grateful to have Cindy with me and couldn't believe she was even awake after the day she had!

I'm happy to hear that Tiny's numbers were good and where we want them to be. I didn't ask Karen to get up through the night because I knew someone needed to be functioning today, and that is not me. I left a note for Karen to test Tiny at 7 AM, our usual AMPS test, and she did.

I did not give Tiny her insulin this morning. I was fast asleep at shot time and already had decided to hold the shot before I fell asleep. Will the depot drain? I'm sure it will, but maybe it won't drain completely. We'll find out as we go.

I've updated the numbers above and on the spreadsheet. Please hang in there with me and thank you.
 
I'm super tired, so forgive me for asking again...

Tiny earned a shot reduction at her AMPS yesterday (10/22), but then with all of her bold activity last night, having hit a BG of 70 at the 2 AM +7, should her PM shot reduction be 2.75 U or 2.50 U? We are following SLGS.

Thanks in advance for the guidance.
 
I don't see the 70 on the SS. Please fill in any missing info. But as of last night, you gave 3u (or was that supposed to say 2.75u?) so the new dose should be 2.75u. I wouldn't reduce again because the 3u depot is still in play.
 
Sue and Luci said:
I posted pics of my hypo kit for you and Krystina this morning
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Boy, how I do love your encouragement, @Sue and Luci . I didn't have it in me to be awake to shoot this AM. I had to take the chance to have her climb a bit and even still Tiny's +2 this AM is lower than her AMPS. We'll see if she climbs or falls today.

I was thinking that I might have reduced her PM dose last night. Maybe her depot was large and that is why she came so low? I don't know enough yet and I'm too tired to think this AM.

Thank you for the kit info. I shall endeavor to have as nice a kit as yours!

So, for future reference, that tiny bit of honey in butter was the magic that brought Tiny's numbers up.
 
OMG! I am so glad you had Cindy to keep you company last night. Between Tiny and Taco there seems to be a competition on for most dramatic! Tiny needs to get on a better schedule though! You made quite the team! Good job!
I'm with Sandy and Black Kitty. I've always had a bit of an issue with using 90 as the SLGS reduction point with the AT2 meter (long time AT2 user myself) so going forward, I too would recommend taking reductions whenever warranted or as an alternative, setting your reduction level a tad higher ....maybe 100 or so. :)
 
Joanne&TinySole said:
that tiny bit of honey in butter was the magic that brought Tiny's numbers up.
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THAT sounds like a fabulous idea! Luci loves loves loves butter! Caught that little brat up on the counter one day liking my butter :( But at least I know of her fondness for it...and could use that same trick should the need arise... :)

You're doing a great job there mama! I'd have been a walking zombie today if I'd been up all night - that's too much for this old lady :( :woot::woot:
 
Hey, this 70 at + 7 h is there, but in white letters with light pink background (adding pic).
 

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That's interesting because this is what I see.........
Tiny spreadsheet.PNG
HMMMMMM???? I know there were some display issues with the spreadsheets that Marje was working on but I don't think this was it!
 
Joanne&TinySole said:
it's in the PM +7 at 2 AM. Two BGs are in that square: 70 @ 2 am + 104 @ 2:30 am
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I just checked your SS & those cells are empty.No numbers?

Joanne&TinySole said:
Um, I'm no spring chicken myself!!! 61,
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You are a spring Chicken to me (i'm 72)
Nearly 9 months ago I never thought I could get up all night checking him. But over time i realized if i skipped a dose it might let me sleep but would raise Ravans' BG & here we go again.( I rather reduce the dose than skip)
The goal is all green for 2 weeks without insulin for Remission. :D
Even just to get him regulated I realized I'd need to check him at night. Now it's a habit I don't feel as tired as I did in the beginning.It takes me a few mins to test & back to sleep for an hour (unless he's near hypo)
If you check Ravan's SS you'll see.
Ravan & his sister Peggy Sue are so used to getting up every few hours that even when he's bouncing & I could sleep all night they both Wake me up every few hours :arghh::arghh::arghh:

We've all been there & survived (so far :)) And you have people that are staying up with you to help :bighug:

It really does get easier HONEST!:joyful:
 
Joanne&TinySole said:
I was thinking that I might have reduced her PM dose last night. Maybe her depot was large and that is why she came so low? I don't know enough yet and I'm too tired to think this AM.
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It takes time to "know thy cat"., particularly when just when you think you are getting there they change things up on you.

As I mentioned in your 10/22 condo, being that you are following SLGS and dry is still on the scene for safety sake going forward I recommend taking reductions when they are earned as per the SLGS recommendations. .

Keep in mind that having dry in the picture for occasional grazing is a variable whose effects can't be reliably quantified. Also since SLGS reference numbers are based on a meter calibrated for humans rather than one calibrated for pets, use of the AT blurs the edges of picture a bit.

"Shooting through the bounce" as you did on the 10/22/AM cycle is an advanced technique that is not part of the SLGS or TR methods. Using it in the face of variable dry food consumption combined with the AT sets the stage for the possibility of unexpected lows as well as sleepless nights (assuming you are around to catch any resulting lows).

If you want to be more aggressive, focus on converting to all wet LC and after evaluating how that effects Tinys BG, consider TR.

Remember that for most diabetic kitties, the road to regulation is a marathon, not a sprint.

Hang in there :cool:.

 
70 @2am, 104 @2:30am 96 @3am, 82 @3:30am - I see all of this in 7 & 8+ (only when I highlight those fields with my cursor) - Joanne, try using your paint can and select the field, then select a color to fill in that cell with - you can do one cell at a time - see if it will add the correct background color and then see if your text is visible. Just an idea...
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
That's interesting because this is what I see.........
View attachment 39865 HMMMMMM???? I know there were some display issues with the spreadsheets that Marje was working on but I don't think this was it!
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That was/is the issue and Google still hasn’t addressed it. The way to fix it for each SS is to manually color the background white and then manually reselect the correct color.

Google does not seem to be interested in fixing the issues caused to embedded links. In other words, when the CG looks at the SS from within google, it looks totally normal. It’s the links that are messed up and google is doing nothing about them. It’s also causing World SSs to have “0”s placed in empty cells on the US SS tab. It’s very infuriating because there is no way I can fix it...google has to fix the issue they caused.:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Mandy & Rex said:
That's what I see. I didn't notice the light pink until you pointed it out. I thought it was empty cells.
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Fortunately I have eyes of an eagle. Hopefully I can manage fine-dosing (under 1 unit) without the special half-unit-marking syringe before I get one
 
@Marje and Gracie The only way I've been accessing Tiny's sheet is through the link here on FDMB yet my view seems to be eqivalent to Joanne's. This suggests to me there might be something more involved. The tab on my browser for Tiny's sheet shows the "Google drive" icon whereas when I open other sheets from FDMB links, the icon on the browser tab is the "sheets" icon. When I open my cat's sheet from my personal link, I also have the "sheets" icon on my browser tab. Just some info in case Google ever decides to act and you need any more info/evidence.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Marje and Gracie The only way I've been accessing Tiny's sheet is through the link here on FDMB yet my view seems to be eqivalent to Joanne's. This suggests to me there might be something more involved. The tab on my browser for Tiny's sheet shows the "Google drive" icon whereas when I open other sheets from FDMB links, the icon on the browser tab is the "sheets" icon. When I open my cat's sheet from my personal link, I also have the "sheets" icon on my browser tab. Just some info in case Google ever decides to act and you need any more info/evidence.
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When I’m looking at his SS today via the FDMB link, it looks totally fine. I didn’t see where Joanne said there was pink on the SS or any issue with it (but I might have missed that). When the links are embedded in FDMB, it doesn’t matter if you get the Google Drive icon or the Google Sheets icon....we are still having issues.

When you open your cat’s SS from your google drive so that you can edit it, I’m assuming everything looks totally normal? I am authorized to edit many, many SSs here and when I open them via either google drive or google sheets, they look completely normal. When I open them within FDMB, they don’t. It’s the embedding that is the problem.
 
My friends, I don't know why you are not seeing what I'm seeing, but I'm seeing cells colored green with white bold text from yesterday / last night.
I will try to fix it up on my end. I will redo the initial post to color the text to the corresponding cell colors for now.

Tiny just tested at 107 / +5 at 4:30 PM.
I need dosing help for tonight.

Tiny has steadily stayed in the blues today and that is without an AM Lantus shot.

Please advise, and thank you.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
you gave 3u (or was that supposed to say 2.75u?)
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I gave 3 U last night after her PMPS.
If I dose tonight, and that is a BIG "IF," I understand that her reduction should be 2.50, not 2.75, based on her 10/22 AMPS of 83.
IF I dose tonight, I will dose at half that: 1.25, a BCS, because my BOS melted last night and I have nothing left inside of me to stay up all night again.

So, what says everyone?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
When you open your cat’s SS from your google drive so that you can edit it, I’m assuming everything looks totally normal? I am authorized to edit many, many SSs here and when I open them via either google drive or google sheets, they look completely normal. When I open them within FDMB, they don’t. It’s the embedding that is the problem.
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Thanks, Marje. My SS looks totally normal on my end, and I don't want to lose the forest through the trees.
I know the colors make it easier to have a visual, but the first post way at the top here has now been color coded up to +10 a short time ago.
 
You certainly could consider a BCS but I'd wait and see what she does in the next 2 hours before making any final decision. You may or may not want to be quite that "chicken" with the dose. The decision will of course be up to you because we've all had those PJ parties that take the wind out of our sails.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
we've all had those PJ parties that take the wind out of our sails.
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I have deadlines at work that I must meet. I had hoped to do that today, but that didn't happen, as I was late and could barely function.
I have to function at work tomorrow and that means sleep.
I'll wait to see what the PMPS is, but she historically goes low at the +11, which I will be getting in 25 minutes.
It's either going to be another NS, or a BCS.
I cannot imagine shooting 2.50 U tonight and staying up again all night.
Please, don't kill the momma; Tiny Sole needs me!
 
I wasn't suggesting you'd want to give the 2.5u tonight (I wouldn't) and we will absolutely support Momma in her quest for rest. After all if Momma don't work, Tiny don't eat! HAHAHAHA! :p Just not sure you need to drop all the way to 1.25u. Ultimately if that is what you are comfortable with, then that is what you do and we're with you. We just don't want to see you lose too much momentum.
Gotta run out to the store for a bit but will be back before your PMPS. :)
 
Joanne&TinySole said:
Thanks, Marje. My SS looks totally normal on my end, and I don't want to lose the forest through the trees.
I know the colors make it easier to have a visual, but the first post way at the top here has now been color coded up to +10 a short time ago.
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I appreciate that and, unfortunately, it’s beyond my control at this point. I literally spent hours when this first happened trying to find a way to bypass the google changes and couldn’t find one. Until they fix it, everyone will have to manually fix the color issues. Right now, her SS looks perfect through the link.

Joanne&TinySole said:
I gave 3 U last night after her PMPS.
If I dose tonight, and that is a BIG "IF," I understand that her reduction should be 2.50, not 2.75, based on her 10/22 AMPS of 83.
IF I dose tonight, I will dose at half that: 1.25, a BCS, because my BOS melted last night and I have nothing left inside of me to stay up all night again.

So, what says everyone?
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I’ve read back through this condo but i can’t figure out why you think her new dose should be 2.5u instead of 2.75u. Maybe I missed something? You gave four cycles at 3u and skipped a shot. Her new dose should be 2.75u based on her nadir of 70 last night. I just saw that Sandy recommended 2.5u in yesterday’s condo.

I understand your concerns about another PJ party but with a skipped shot today, IMHO, I would strongly suggest you shoot the 2.75u dose and don’t let her depot deplete further. Edited to add: Your decision on the dose. Because SLGS is not an aggressive approach, taking a 0.5u reduction is, in my mind, more than is necessary in this instance. However, you hold the syringe and I understand you are tired. IMHO, I would not suggest shooting a BCS tonight if you are reducing to 2.5u although also IMHO I wouldn’t shoot a BCS for 2.75u but again, you hold the syringe.

Joanne&TinySole said:
I'll wait to see what the PMPS is, but she historically goes low at the +11, which I will be getting in 25 minutes.
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What I’m seeing on the days she’s lower at +11 is that she’s clearing a bounce. You would expect her to potentially still be dropping late in the cycle on bounce clearing days. Today is not a bounce clearing day; it will be interesting to see what she does. Her cycle today looks like an inverted curve which I wouldn’t get concerned about.
 
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Following the SLGS guidelines as written, your new dose should be 2.75, as she earned a reduction by going below 90 on 3.0 units. I personally would stick with 90 as the reduction point. Countless other member with the AT have done the same, including some with cats that have gone into remission.

Oops, I see Marje just posted the same. GMTA. :p
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
OMG! I am so glad you had Cindy to keep you company last night. Between Tiny and Taco there seems to be a competition on for most dramatic! Tiny needs to get on a better schedule though! You made quite the team! Good job!
I'm with Sandy and Black Kitty. I've always had a bit of an issue with using 90 as the SLGS reduction point with the AT2 meter (long time AT2 user myself) so going forward, I too would recommend taking reductions whenever warranted or as an alternative, setting your reduction level a tad higher ....maybe 100 or so. :)
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I have to respectfully disagree with this recommendation. It has long been standing in this forum that the reduction numbers are the same for AT2 and human meters with SLGS. A new member doesn’t know when “whenever warranted” is. And setting the reduction a tad higher for the AT2 only sets the cat up for potentially being at higher numbers longer.

SLGS and TR guidelines are there to provide a structure for new members while they are gathering data and learning about their cat. At some point, as CGs become a lot more experienced and they know their cats onset, nadir, duration as well as how their cat responds to feeding and to dose changes, then modifications to either method are expected. As an example, over time and as she became better regulated, I learned that Gracie did better with smaller dose changes. That was her and her alone and I followed the TR protocol pretty closely at least the first year.

However, unless there are really extenuating circumstances (which we occasionally see but I don’t see here), I would suggest a fairly new CG stick with the guidelines of either method until they have a really good handle on all of the criteria I listed above.
 
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Marje and Gracie said:
And setting the reduction a tad higher for the AT2 only sets the cat up for potentially being at higher numbers longer.
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I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Since the AT2 meter reads higher, the cat would NOT be sitting in higher numbers when allowing something in the neighbourhood of 10 or 20 points extra on the reduction level. All that is doing is accommodating for the higher AT2 reading to some degree and affording those using SLGS with a pet meter a cushion more comparable to that being afforded human meter users.
 
I think after missing the shot this AM you should be OK but it's still up to you. I'm not sure I wouldn't opt for 2.5u in your shoes, just to give yourself some extra cushion given you really need to sleep tonight in order to meet business deadlines, but then I have always been conservative and admittedly perhaps too much so at times. Do you feel comfortable with that dose?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Do you feel comfortable with that dose?
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I had better, because I just gave it to her.
I am going to take a nap now, a long 2 hour nap.
I will get a +3 on her and try to stay up until midnight to see where she goes.

Keep sending vines and energy to us.
I will post again at +3, which will be 10 PM, and again at +4 / 11 PM.
If that +4 is falling, I'll nap and get a +6.
If that +6 continues to fall, I'm shipping her off to one of you four! :p ...just kidding.
 
Before I go off to nap until 10 PM, what's the other general consensus about dose reductions...since I'm using the AT2, does she get them at 90 or at 100.
I'm a need to know kinda gal so I can get it right, so give me some direction and I'll gladly follow it.

XOXO, J.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Since the AT2 meter reads higher, the cat would NOT be sitting in higher numbers when allowing something in the neighbourhood of 10 or 20 points extra on the reduction level. All that is doing is accommodating for the higher AT2 reading to some degree and affording those using SLGS with a pet meter a cushion more comparable to that being afforded human meter users.
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First, there is no reason to adjust the numbers for SLGS when using an AT2 meter. That’s the basic premise.

Second, which is tied to the above, SLGS is already a non aggressive approach. There doesn’t need to be more cushion by raising the reduction point. The cushion is already built in. And I’m speaking from being an experienced AT2 and human meter user.
 
Joanne&TinySole said:
Before I go off to nap until 10 PM, what's the other general consensus about dose reductions...since I'm using the AT2, does she get them at 90 or at 100.
I'm a need to know kinda gal so I can get it right, so give me some direction and I'll gladly follow it.

XOXO, J.
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At 90 for SLGS no matter which meter you use.

Great job shooting the 2.75u. :)
 
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