12/19, Razz AMPS 89 (No Shoot Decision), +6

We are unsure Razz's age but we think 14 years. He is Male, neutered and lives alone with us. He has free range to go in and out and never met a litter box until he was diagnosed in October with DM. Typical story, got sick lost weight and I thought we were in for another round of Hepatatic Lipidosis which we almost lost him from about 6 years ago. Imagine our surprise when the vet said it was DM.

Vet prescribed Lantus, 2 units/day and dry DM which he responded well to in terms of outward appearance and appetite. But for weeks his BG never seemed to respond to the insulin and his numbers remained high. Of course massive water intake and all the rest for symptoms too.

That was until about 10 days,.. ago when he quit eating, became lethargic and I was within hours of taking back to the hospital. In desperation and not knowing better I gave him some wet FF Classic and he wolfed it down. He later went outside as usual and came in that evening with a much better disposition and Hungry so I gave him more FF Classic. In hindsight, I think he was constipated and he finally passed poop?

Anyway, his numbers came WAY down fast and I'm posting them here for advice because they have been so low at AMPS and sometimes PMPS that I've decided not to shoot for fear of a hypo.

Anyone help me here?

 

Okay – that is a big jump between PMPS and +3.

What other foods do you have in the house? Anything with gravy (high carb)? Honey? Karo syrup? Maple syrup?

What meter are you using - human or pet? With a human meter, you don't want your cat to go below 50. With a pet meter, I believe the cut off number is 68.

Can you take another test now and post it? You need to test every 20 minutes.

When was the last time he ate?

Just transitioning from a dry food to a low carb wet food can bring numbers down a hundred points.

Edited to +3

 

How to treat hypos: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

If you go up to the righthand corner of this page, click the edit thread title button, you can add a question mark to the beginning of the thread title, that will bring more eyes.

 

The hypo tool box: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

 

Thank you,

The canned wet really shot his numbers down! (I am so stupid).

He is acting normally right now and I just tested and got a 55 (up from 51 and 47).... let's see if it holds I am watching him closely.

Will test again in 20 min.

I gave him some HC kibble about an hour ago.

Note (spreadsheet) prior to the PM shot I gave him this evening he has had no insulin in 24 hours as I've been trying to deal with this rapid average drop in BG.

Human meter is being used,... same one the entire history, checked with control solution and on myself.

THANK YOU

 

Looking at your spreadsheet, I should have said +3, not +2 (corrected).

Glad you are testing. Do you have honey/karo (corn syrup) if needed? Gravy or grilled wet food? Give a bit more kibble if you don't have higher carb wet food. Kibble takes longer to get into the system and even longer to leave the system.

Don't give Razz (nice name) too much food at one go. You want to keep Razz slightly hungry in case his numbers don't come up and you need to keep feeding the numbers.

 

Yes I have honey and Maple Syrup.

I also have some HC canned food too.... wish I had know about the kibble. (newbie)

GREAT idea about the hunger issue.... been twenty minutes, going in for a test,.. be back with results

 

OK back,... BG now 56.

In summary where we are...

PMPS 208, only gave 1.5u (down from previous dosage(s) of 2.25u), +3-51, +4-47, +4:15-55, +4:30-56

He is acting fine... still monitoring..

Sorry about the nomenclature for now,... I haven't boned up on it yet.....

 

You are doing great. You want to keep him above 50. Keep up the testing (and posting).

 

Time to test?

 

Yes doing ... BG now 52

Mine is 98 ha!

 

Have you fed since the dry kibble?

And what have you been into?

 

No food since Kibble,...

"And what have you been into?" pls explain?

 

What have you been eating that you are higher than your cat?

Test again in 20 minutes. You might give a bit of low carb wet food now to help bring him up a bit.

 

ok get it....

Will see if he wants to eat a bit...

 

@Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) @Amy&TrixieCat @Chris & China

Can any of you keep an eye on Razz? I'm good for about another 45 minutes.

Also, advice needed on a.m. dosing. I'm not comfortable with giving dosing advice.

 

Me too,.. sleepy,... he is acting fine, ate 1/4 can FF Classic just now will check BG in a few

 

You need to keep testing and feeding until the numbers start rising and come up a lot more. When you shot the 2 units the other morning, Razz's numbers continued to go down the entire cycle.

 

Thank you,.. you should go to bed,.. I will watch him...

Ok,..! he just shot a 62! and is acting just fine....

I am going to lay down myself and will check on him later.

"Cats" sheeessh....

Thanks again

 

How long since he had any food? How long since high carb food? High carbs can wear off in a couple of hours and they can drop again so you need to keep testing past that point.

My opinion, try 1 unit as the next dose. I might even be convinced that 0.5 unit might be good. He needs "some" insulin, but not much.

And welcome to the baptism by fire.

 

I agree. The numbers you are seeing are food/highcarb influenced. Can you get another couple of tests?

(Sorry, had to go downstairs to turn the house off for the night)

 

Yes, last test was 25 minutes ago, testing....

Ok,... it's a 59...

In answer to Wendy,,... he had some HC kibble about two hours ago. Not alot of Kibble

He had a full LC wet dinner in two courses,... first course with PMPS and the rest at +1.

He just in the last 30 min ate 1/3 can LC wet.

 

How long since he last had high carb food?

 

"he had some HC kibble about two hours ago. Not a lot of Kibble"

 

Thanks - dry food can take longer to work it's way out of the system. Time to put it in the back of the cupboard, and next time use that HC wet which would be starting to work it's way out of his system by now.

Can you test again in another 1/2 hour?

 

Learning the logic,.. thanks

I can and will test in 1/2 hour

Thanks for asking

 

ok,...he just shot a 56

I am pooped and need to lay down for a few... when I arise I will retest.

 

Well, the good news he's not dropping (we don't want him below 50), but that bad news is that's a little low to leave him and go to sleep. You have a couple of options. First option, you could try napping a bit, set an alarm and wake in an hour to test again. Option 2, see if you can carb him up high enough you can go to sleep. The risk with option 2 is that you can't get him high enough and end up staying up testing later. But if you do option 2, you can always leave some higher carb food out for him to snack on. What do you feel like doing?

 

OK he should be fine now,... he just shot an 83 @ +9.

I will post how he does at AMPS or +11 if possible.

THANK YOU ALL

 

AMPS was 89, no shoot, whew, I won't be repeating tomorrow for sure....

 

+6 No Shoot numbers posted at 176

 

Lantus is an insulin that craves consistency. I'm hoping more experienced members will chime in about a proper dosage for Razz.

 

As stated above, it's best if you can get to a dose that you can shoot the same amount AM and PM. You will also find that if you shoot lower numbers, their cycle will stay mostly flat all day. Take a look at some of the other posts where people are shooting low numbers to see why their cycles look like. If there is a cycle where you will be home to monitor, try shooting those lower numbers to see what happens. Clearly Razz still needs some insulin. If you are nervous, try shooting a 0.5 unit dose. You can always increase if it's too little.

 

He has been sitting in the 170s all day (nice and flat) so that's exactly what I'm thinking this PM.

I am planning on giving him ~0.5 in a couple hours and hopefully I'll get to sleep tonight.

I agree it would be great to get to two small, equal doses/day and let the slow release Lantus do it's job.

I still cannot get over how badly the dry DM food was elevating his BG and overcoming the insulin for weeks on end.

It hit me today that taking off insulin and changing his diet to LC wet puts him in a better position from a BG position than eating Dry DM and getting 2+Units 2x/day.... I'm of course not going to do that but the realization made me feel much better about the long term outlook.

 

Isn't it amazing? Those Hills Science Diet salesmen are good at their jobs convincing all these vets that the carbohydrates in DM are somehow "good" carbs!!!

Razz is sure looking like a different cat without the kitty crack in his diet!!

 

Looks like the gang came to the rescue. Sorry I didn't see that I was tagged. I had turned in for the night (almost midnight here and I'm old!)
Ella

 

Thank you, the gang is awesome!

 

Just peeking in to say welcome! That was quite the introduction!
Glad there were pros here to help!
Nicely managed!