12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320,+6-301

previous http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=110634

I am thrilled to see Ozy at 216 today.

Thanks to all who advised me yesterday on how to go about dosing Ozy. I need as much help as I can get for a rough map of how to proceed. I especially took to heart what Sienne said.

Yes, uncharted territory. I, being me, want to have a sort of blueprint to follow, like the TR protocol. I am very much a map person. I like to follow along with where I am with a map. And, being me, I hate to have to come, hat in hand, EVERYDAY to say what should I do? Worst of all is waiting for the response. Yes, I can post everyday but I spend an inordinate amount of time (and emotional energy) seeing if I got an answer. It's not a healthy thing. I know I have some people I can trust to give good advice. But waiting for the answers is hard. That is why I want a map.

It seems like I can expect to spend a year and a half of living in this uncharted territory. And in that time I have to be super vigilant. Ozy requires round the clock monitoring and care. I can't go camping or even count on going out for half a day. I can't sleep through the night. There will be many set backs. It's daunting, especially emotionally.

I STILL want to know where the antibodies trap the insulin. Is it in the depot under the skin? In the blood stream?

And what about bounces? It seems to me that what happens is that Ozy's liver gets upset about a low number and raises his glucose. But before the bounce gets a chance to break, the antibodies take over and keep his glucose high so the bounces never come down. He just stays stuck to the ceiling. So it seems to me that I cannot wait for bounces to clear because they just don't.

I am sorry that I am a dead weight on the forum. I just don't have anything left for all of you. I just can't manage to do my share to help others. I don't like that.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Yay for yellow! I'm not qualified to answer your questions but I think they are good ones. I like maps too.
Liz

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

It's a beautiful yellow start for Ozy today I'm sorry that I can't give you answers, and you don't have a map, I like them too. Hugs and wishes for a good day! :razz:

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Donaleen, I wish I could say something to help you with Ozy, but all I can do is offer support and cheer you on. We understand that you're dealing with a lot and understand if you can't visit other condos and offer support. We want the best for you and Ozy. As you post and ask questions and keep us updated, you will be providing a record to help future kitties with IAA.

Yay on the lovely yellow start today. Some of the experts should be on later to help you with your questions.
:YMHUG: :YMHUG:

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Hi Donaleen,
What Carla said!!!

Just by posting Ozy's updates, you are contributing so much to the forum. :smile:

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Thanks Anne, Carla, Rachel, and Mariko....

Okay I have R, Julie.... will be reading more about R. He has gone up significantly since AMPS.

So, I know I don't want the nadirs to overlap.... his nadir is strange these days. I think it was at or near AMPS this morning.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

wouldn't we all love to have a blueprint to follow... even those of us with diabetic kitties without confirmed high dose conditions. as i've said more than once on this forum, "1 + 1 does not always equal 2 when it comes to diabetic kitties." i know how frustrating that can be. we'd all love to follow step A, followed by B, then C, and so on. it just doesn't happen that way.

donaleen, while posting often will be to your advantage, you won't always get the answers you're looking for from others. much of ozy's treatment will include drawing upon your knowledge of him... his responses... his reactions... your observations. there's a steep learning curve and just about the time you think you know ozy, things will change. take avid notes and record thm on his spreadsheet. sometimes you'll have to be prepared to adapt by changing course. that's true for all diabetic kitties... not just those with high dose conditions. sometimes you'll just have to try things while monitoring carefully. sometimes you'll take 3 steps forward and then two back. i'm only mentioning these things because they're real. as hard as it is you'll need to try very hard to separate your emotions from what's happening on ozy's spreadsheet. see the thing is, treating him is a process. some days will look great while others will, pardon the expression, suck. expect it. don't allow it to get you down. that wouldn't be healthy for you or your family. BUT, on the positive side... treatment in and of itself is progress!

as far as knowing you have people who can give good advice...
so far, you do have people here who are able to offer a wonderful support system for you. however, none of the "regulars" in this group have had hands on experience with IAA kitties. none of them have experience shooting high doses of a basal insulin along with high doses of a bolus insulin into an IAA kitty. only one of them has even witnessed aggressive treatment of an IAA kitty, but was not included in making dosing decisions. as well meaning as they are, they don't have the experience with an aggressive treatment plan for an IAA kitty. that's not to say they won't be of help or support, but i strongly encourage you to seek out the help of those who have walked in your shoes... not only sandy/black kitty, but pattie/harley. pattie has graciously offered to help already. please take her up on it. hopefully marje will hear from sandy/black kitty soon. it would be great if sandy can help.

i mention this not because i'm trying to be mean or diminish your support system because believe you me... you're going to need a support system. i say it because treating an IAA kitty successfully is harder than treating any other diabetic kitty than i have ever seen in the 7.5+ years i've been on this board. i can't tell you how many nights i stayed up all night long with jojo (another LL helper from years ago) waiting for black kitty's next test result... gulping and holding my breath after high doses of lantus and R were shot. allow yourself the luxury of building a complete team of helpers... those who can provide support as well as those who have walked in your shoes.

i don't think anyone can put a time frame on ozy's treatment. could be months. could be years or anything in-between. who knows? there's a lot of things you'll be able to do at times. there will be other times that might have to be missed simply because ozy will be at a point where monitoring closely will be a "must do"... just like what happens to every other diabetic cat owner. pattie/harley works outside the home. sandy/black kitty worked and treated black kitty through her own personal health issues. it can be done.

one advantage sandy had was she had a partner who stepped in to lighten her load. perhaps you'll be able to find someone to help such as a friend, vet tech, etc.??? my point is don't let stuff like this overwhelm you at this point. where there's a will there's a way. it might take some doing, but you shouldn't have to stay chained to the house like a prisoner.

i don't know the answer to this question. perhaps someone will pop in with the answer.

that may be where you're at now, but that too will change as you get further into treatment.


just my thoughts...

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Donaleen,
I so wish I could really help you, but I don't "get" high dose kitties. I have zero experience with IAA or Acro at all. So I read your condos, and I just sit here thinking "I have NO clue....". Not a place I like to be at, but that's my reality.

This is all I can offer -

I completely understand this. I sit here sometimes seeing a question (that I can't answer) that hasn't gotten a quick response, and I agonize for the caregiver who asked it. And I keep clicking the "refresh" button hoping a new reply has been posted. I can't fathom how much worse it is for the person asking the question.

Do you get email notifications when you get PMs? Have you ever used the "subscribe topic" button on the bottom of the page? If you do get email messages when you get a new PM, then you should also get them when somebody replies to a topic you have checked the "subscribe" button on. If nothing else, it'll let you spend the time and emotional energy that you are waiting on a reply on something else. You won't have to keep checking back to see if you've gotten an answer. I use that button a lot, and when a reply is posted, my phone lets me know I've got mail. So I know I can come back to the forum and see the response.

Carl

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Donaleen - I'm sorry I didn't get to your condo yesterday, but it was a hectic day - including traveling with Neko, which is how we get away now. You mention not being able to go camping, but there have been people who do that, including with high dose cats. Patti/Merlin wrote a great document describing her travels with her acrokitty Merlin. Current member Pam took Hoot on a few day camping trip earlier this year.

Part of the frustration that I expect you are now feeling is trying to get Ozy to a point where you see greens again, and also learning how he responds to Levemir. You are doing a great job now keeping on top of the increases. I know the first month after the insulin switch was hard on me - I felt like a newbie again until I had enough data to be able to see patterns and figure out when Neko might go low. It's still a work in progress. That variable nadir our IAA cats have doesn't help, but now I have a better idea of the range of hours when Neko could go low and I use that knowledge to go out or sleep when she's not going down into unsafe territory.

And you are not a dead weight on the forum. Reading your condos forced me to go out reading about IAA again and it was a great refresher for me. I get so focused on the acro tumor that I sometimes forget I'm also battling the IAA demons too. So thank you for that.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Okay, that's a LOT to reply to. Right now I am going to say just two things:

1) I want to create an easy to follow SS that is a good record for people to follow but also doesn't drive me crazy keeping it up to date. I want it to be my contribution to FD. I find all the SS I am referred to pretty impossible to decipher and the histories hard to follow, or missing. I will need feedback on how I am doing with that record because it isn't just for Ozy, but for everyone. I do intend to link back to at least some of the posts here, as Julie recommended.

2) I get NO email ever from Feline Diabetes. I contacted the tech guy and he told me it is a problem with how the server is configured and he had to do some work. To my knowledge he never did it. A lot of people never get email. Most of the newer people I think. Maybe there is a special list of advisors who get mail. But not me, ever, no matter what I do.

I am the kind of person who throws myself whole hog at things I take on. That is going to be a problem for me. If we had a lot of money, it would be less of a problem. We do have time. We are happily here a LOT. But I will somehow need longer breaks than I have had. At least times when I can go out for a hike or something. I am amazed by people who work and deal with a diabetic cat. But maybe in some ways, having something FORCE you out is at least some sort of break. When you CAN be there all the time, it is hard not to be. It's going to be a real challenge for my personality.

John, my DH participates some. He loads the syringe. He occasionally tests. He helps with food and pills. He helps when Ozy is difficult about something. Every month or so we talk about how we are with how things are. So far so good.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

can't blame you, wendy. it's so easy to forget about treating IAA when kitty also has acromegaly because acro trumps IAA.
when kitty has both an acromegaly and IAA diagnosis, the IAA is secondary to treatment.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

great idea on the spreadsheet!
fwiw, i don't get email notifications from the fdmb. whatever broke, hasn't been fixed for me either. :sad:

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Donaleen, to everything there is a season. right now, be ok with it being your season to take care of Ozy and learn about the iaa. We all know what it's like having a diabetic kitty - and even the easiest ones can be all-consuming. Pacing yourself, making sure you do get breaks is going to be important.

We took Punkin with us for weekends at the coast sometimes. We also found a vet tech who would come test punkin and shoot him so we could go out sometimes. We took him with us when we went to visit family in your city. He was reasonably decent in the car and he got more used to it as we dragged him all over.

What you are doing and learning will become a record for someone else to look at in the future. There will be other people in your shoes, so anything you can do to pass on what you are learning will help THEN. You don't have to help others RIGHT NOW. I think your idea of that being your contribution is wonderful.

Pattie is a sweet person and i think you'd be wise to accept her offer of coaching.

more later.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

oh - and ages ago i read something that makes me think the insulin is bound in the bloodstream. the way the acro tumor works is by blocking the receptor in the cell that the insulin needs to get into, so the glucose is floating in the bloodstream instead of getting into the cell. hence high blood sugar. i think i read that the antibodies are the same way - so when they release, they are right there ready to enter the cells.

eta - i don't know where i saw that so can't guide you to it. could be wrong, also, but that's what i recall.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Oh, Wendy, I missed your reply. We must have been typing at the same time. And a very good reply it is, too. Thanks for sharing your valuable experience.

Now, as to my advisors. I am hanging on to them unless they are too busy with all the other kitties here . Yes, I will gladly accept advice from Pattie. But I hope that Julie and Marje and Sienne and Wendy and Carl, who, all along have been there for me with solid advice, will still help and advise. Because they may not be experienced with IAA, but they already know Ozy and they have a lot of experience with all sorts of kitties. And they have good common sense, a characteristic I value highly. And they are kind. I am not asking for sugar coated, but kindness is appreciated. Many other people have been supportive and I appreciate that, too.

I need to learn how to use R.... please look at Ozy's SS and advise when the right time would be to administer it. I think today when he started up I should have done it but I didn't have it yet much less know how to do it

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Donaleen
I'm not going anywhere. I'm happy to help any way I can.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

i can safely say we're all here for the long-haul with you, donaleen. :YMHUG:

There is no kitty more important than Ozy, so don't worry that people will be too busy helping others. It won't happen. Sometimes people won't know the answers to your question though, but we'll do the best we can.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Hi there

Got the shout out from Marje and am here to share what I learned. You have received some excellent advice already.

Before I ask a lot of questions, have you completed a profile on Ozy?

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Hi Donaleen,
I have to agree how overwhelming this whole dance can be and then to throw other complications into the mix...I can't even imagine how your head must be spinning.
But I also can't imagine doing this without the support and knowledge this board can offer. And maybe they all don't know everything about every health issue, I think enough do that can help guide you with their own experiences like Julie said. And like they have said, and I also believe, that every post and every question you ask is contributing to present and future members who will one day be in your shoes and that is worth it's weight in gold!

I got a chuckle (sorry) from this statement, because you took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!! I thought for sure I wouldn't be able to do anything or go anywhere ever again in the beginning too (we are also campers). And then I just knew that that was not an option and decided to just pack Hoot up and take him with us on our camping trips, or over night hotel trips or whatever and he does just fine. Dyana put J.D. on the plane and flew him across the country just so she could go see her Dad. My point being, it is overwhelming at first but you will figure out a way to take care of yourself and Ozy all at the same time. I'm not saying it's not an adjustment...but certainly do-able!
We will all be here to support you and cheer you on so hang in there, you are doing a great job so far...you're here aren't you ;-) :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Sandy! Thanks for surfacing. Very excited to hear from you.

Ozy's profile is a tab in his SS https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCxgyuIGH9TdEkzWDlYcU9OYmtoemtMV1oxS0ZnTEE&usp=sharing


Is that sufficient? I can provide whatever you need.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

donaleen

I'm thrilled beyond belief that Sandy popped in and is going to help. Jill had some extremely wise words (she always does) and she made some great points. While your "team" can stay up with you and support you, you absolutely must have Sandy and/or Pattie on board to help you with the dosing. It would be a huge disservice to you and Ozy if you had to only rely on those of us who have never had an IAA kitty and just don't have a clue other than you need to be aggressive.

I think I can speak for Sienne, too, when I say this (since Julie, Wendy, and Carl have checked in) but we aren't going anywhere. We're here to support you, root you and Ozy on, be here on the days that are harder than the day before, celebrate with you. Ozy is one lucky kitty that he has you of for a mom because of your loyalty and commitment to him.

Sandy....thank you!! you rock!!!!!!!!

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Yes, excited to have all of you and Sandy and Pattie. I responded to Sandy and Pattie.... waiting.

Sandy and Pattie if you want me to test at different times or frequencies, just tell me.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Speaking of Pattie, you've sent her a PM asking her to drop in? (Or someone has?)

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Yes, I have.... and I got a response! She is in the building, looking at his SS. Pretty cool.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Darn, lost my message. Oh well, time to start over. Like you I wanted answered and hate to say it but there were not many. I had great,support from Sandy, seine, and jojo. I look at IAA like any other allergy. The antigen gets into the body and stirs up,the antibodies which attach the antigens to get the system,back to normal. Kinda like allergy season,and pollen. I know that is a simplified version but it helped me cope. When I got my first cats, I was highly allergic,but after awhile the symptoms lessened as the antibodies gave up.

I also wanted a plan. Too bad Harley didn't read it. I will try and find it for you. Might give you an idea. A couple things I did do.

1. Decided on a no shoot number. What is the number where you will not give any insulin. Anything above,this you will, anything below,you won't. Harley's number was low. I would never shoot anything lower than 60. I chose this number after several times,he went low. I mapped out what his response was so I knew that if I shot at 60 he would continue to rise.

2. Although the protocol here says to reduce dose if falls below 50 (I think), with IAA it should be below 40. Sienna gave me the best advice saying to reduce dose after Harley has fallen low twice. With IAA, first time could be a fluke, second time,you. Know something is happening

I am alone here with my kitties so I understand the frustration of thinking,that you will never be able to do anything because of them. I remember speeding home after a dinner, praying that Harley was ok because I was late. I can definitely tell you, that changes. Try and find a neighbor or vet tech to come in and feed or give shots. If I am going to be late at work, my neighbor comes in and feeds the cats. I even travel now because I have found a vet tech who comes in and feeds, tests and shoots. It takes some time though.

Everyone here is so helpful and I found that some are still up a 2 in the morning. So, my ranting is over. I can help,you come up with a plan, but again the cats usually have their own idea. But it does not mean that your life will stop...just gets more interesting

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Darn, lost my message. Oh well, time to start over. Like you I wanted answered and hate to say it but there were not many. I had great,support from Sandy, seine, and jojo. I look at IAA like any other allergy. The antigen gets into the body and stirs up,the antibodies which attach the antigens to get the system,back to normal. Kinda like allergy season,and pollen. I know that is a simplified version but it helped me cope. When I got my first cats, I was highly allergic,but after awhile the symptoms lessened as the antibodies gave up.

I also wanted a plan. Too bad Harley didn't read it. I will try and find it for you. Might give you an idea. A couple things I did do.

1. Decided on a no shoot number. What is the number where you will not give any insulin. Anything above,this you will, anything below,you won't. Harley's number was low. I would never shoot anything lower than 60. I chose this number after several times,he went low. I mapped out what his response was so I knew that if I shot at 60 he would continue to rise.

2. Although the protocol here says to reduce dose if falls below 50 (I think), with IAA it should be below 40. Sienna gave me the best advice saying to reduce dose after Harley has fallen low twice. With IAA, first time could be a fluke, second time,you. Know something is happening

I am alone here with my kitties so I understand the frustration of thinking,that you will never be able to do anything because of them. I remember speeding home after a dinner, praying that Harley was ok because I was late. I can definitely tell you, that changes. Try and find a neighbor or vet tech to come in and feed or give shots. If I am going to be late at work, my neighbor comes in and feeds the cats. I even travel now because I have found a vet tech who comes in and feeds, tests and shoots. It takes some time though.

Everyone here is so helpful and I found that some are still up a 2 in the morning. So, my ranting is over. I can help,you come up with a plan, but again the cats usually have their own idea. But it does not mean that your life will stop...just gets more interesting

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

One other thing Donalee, PM me any time. Dosing advice needs to done on your post, not in a PM, but if you have questions about a dose, PM me that you have posted and I will answer there.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Thanks, Pattie.

People always tell me to study SS's. Did Ozy's spreadsheet tell you anything about how to treat him or things I should do differently? In September Ozy took several reductions pretty quickly... I think the antibodies lost ground but then they got ahead of me. Does that time period tell you anything about how Ozy's body works and how I should treat him?

I have shot low before but shooting a big number with a big depot is intimidating. Makes me think harder about shooting low.

Do you use R? When should I shoot the R?

Do you ignore bounces or wait for them to clear? It seems to me that the antibodies catch up by the time the bounces clears (Ozy bounces are long and SLOOOOOWWWWW).

Well, I think the antibodies already chewed up this dose.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

Pattie,
I have a question too, after reading what Donaleen just asked about Ozy's SS.

Is IAA something that can just "appear" after weeks/months on insulin, or was it always there? You likened it to an allergy. Are kitties allergic to begin with, or does the allergy pop up at some point ? (like my pollen allergies that showed up after I was 50 years old)

Carl

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216

For some reason I can only see up to 11/3/13. Think it's because I'm on my iPad. What is the dose now and what was his numbers yesterday.

Jojo got me started on R and my vets helped. Again, set a number that you want to shoot R. Mine was anything above 400 and then I lowered it to anything above 375. the vets at the university had me shooting 1u. Now I would consider that way too much. You need to see how ozy will respond to it. When u start, I would begin with a much smaller dose of .25 and test every hour to get a feel of how he handles it.

Others will jump in on this and give their opinion. Weigh,them all because each person will give info

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Wow, Carl, that is a good question. Don't think that is the official definition of IAA but it helped me explain what was going on with Harley. He went along fine for 5 years as a non diabetic cat and then within a month (so it seemed), he was diabetic, had 2 bouts of DKA was was high dose. To me, it came out of the blue.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Donaleen I'm here too following with great interest. :thumbup

Another question I have for Pattie, Sandy or anyone that might know: Does the IAA test number change when the dose goes down?

For instance I wonder about Chip and Tiggy's IAA numbers, but I don't have plans to test Chip since he's currently regulated and his Levemir dose is down at least for the moment.


BTW here is an iPad friendly version the SS: Ozy BG V3

Direct link to Ozy's profile tab: Ozy History/Profile

What an amazing critter!

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

12/25/13
AMPS-275 5.00 units
+4-361
+8-345
PMPS-287 5.50 units
+5.5-315
12/26/13
AMPS-216 5.50 units
+2-266
+5-286
+7-309
+10-259
PMPS-320 5.50 units

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

I don't think it does. I am basing this on Perry and Sooty. I believe that Perry had Sooty tested again when dose was low but IAA number was still high

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Thanks Pattie, that's interesting.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

I should have Harley tested again to see if he has changed.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Hi Pam.... I didn't mean to ignore you. Camping....we take our Toyota Tacoma and sleep in the back. It is pretty crowded for just us and no way to keep a kitty. I would also be so afraid of losing my kitty. I have thought about it. I would like to take all THREE of our kitties. I don't actually think one of them would do well with that. But how could I leave him home alone? I need a vet tech house sitter. My Christmas request was going camping next year and finding someone to take care of the cats.

ANd hi, Dale. THanks for the help. I don't see you often but it is always nice when I do. That photo of Ozy was on the day we brought him home. He looks much more worn now.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Now that surprises me. How could the IAA number be high when the dose is low? I thought getting to a low dose meant the antibodies had gone away. So how could the IAA number be high? Doesn't it measure antibodies?

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Donalee, I would not shoot R in the 200's. If ozy goes higher, might consider it but he is too low at the moment. I know that protocol says to wait 6 cycles before a change but I waited only 4-5 because I did not want the antibodies to get too strong a hold. See what the morning number is and consider an increase If still high. That would be cycle 5.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

That Donalee I am going to look up. Just know that Sooty's number was above normal.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Pattie... Ozy is probably leaving the 200's. I raised his dose from 5 to 5.5 last night. This morning, on his second cycle, he went yellow for several hours and then back up to pink. I am betting that he will stay pink now on that dose. Or mostly pink with maybe a nadir in the high yellows. His nadir lately is mostly pretty close to pre shot time. Tonight is his third cycle on 5.5 units.

Ozy's body like to be pink. He doesn't go up to red much. He likes to stay pink with slight dips to yellow.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

What time do you shoot in the morning? You also don't want to increase too quickly either. Need to see wh the will do with the dose. I am an early riser so we could look at it then. I would then be on my desktop which is a better computer.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

I shoot at 8 am, Pacific Time.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

So 10 my time. I am In Minneapolis. Ok, well let's see what Ozy does in the morning. By then I should be able to see the whole ss.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Ozy is one big kitty-boy! Any guess as to how long he has been diabetic?

BK had a lump removed October 23 2008. While he was under the vet noticed a rotten tooth fragment and removed it. That's when things started to turn around (although it was to be another year of ups and downs). I was so excited - I asked the vet to re-test for IAA thinking the number would be lower (made sense to me) She told me it would be no different and to save my money - I begged her to indulge me and she did. She was correct. I think it's that way with antibodies.

I remember the relentless pink - I used to refer to BK as Leonidas (the ruler who led 300 Spartans in battle against the Persian army at Thermopile - somewhere there is a photo of BK wearing a centrurions helmet).

I see that Ozy had a dental just a few weeks ago - did he see a specialist? Did they do a full set of dental x-rays? ( BKs Achilles heel was his teeth.)
Has he always had allergies?

eta - I begged her to indulge me and she did.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Thanks Sandy.

I suppose Chip may not be IAA, or high dose. My approach with Chip is more uber-tight regulation than overly aggressive, with the result being liver training so Chip doesn't bounce. As much.

But it looks like Ozy seems to benefit from tighter regulation.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

your team of specialists arrived, donaleen! Sandy & Pattie, you guys are the best!

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Q - Pattie, & Sandy, did you use R to prevent a bounce, ie, when you could see the cycle beginning to head up, did you use R just to hold numbers flat?

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

I think he was diabetic for about a year before he was diagnosed in July. I kept a diary of his symptoms and once he was diagnosed, and I knew the symptoms, that is what I thought.

Ozy saw his own vet. Yes they did x-rays. We took him in for a recheck today. They said he looked pretty good but one side is still a little red.

Did he always have allergies? We got him when he was about four. To my knowledge he had no problems until we got him. It is believed that it started with a rabies shot. Or some other of the many immunizations he was subjected to suddenly at the humane society. His history was scanty but we don't think he had ever been immunized until then.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

No Julie, I don't think I did. Harley never stayed flat with R. When I used R he always fell instead of flattening out. I did though keep with a dose during a bounce instead of lowering it. Once bounce was over, I then lowered it.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

His very first skin issue was feline eosinophilic granuloma, which caused cracks in his foot pads. It occurred within a few weeks of when we got him. It took a while to diagnose because he was hard to handle. They finally sedated him and took a biopsy. Over the past few years it has erupted several times, most recently on his neck. He is getting over a bout of that now.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Poor Ozy. Your wonderful heart has been his saving grace. There are not many people who would do all you've done with as much as he's had going on.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

I started using R on 06/23/2008, in the face of yet another episode of DKA, well before we knew about the IAA. The biggest concern was keeping the evil ketones away and getting some weight back on him as he had dropped to 7.5lbs. I can't remember when he had the first IAA test (his file is not handy at the moment) however you can see on his ss I used R often - with every AM & PM shot and at every +6- for a while. As things gradually improved I stopped the PM+6, then the AM+6. When the first bad tooth got removed I stopped the regular use of R and after that only used it to shoot down a few ugly Reds. Knowing when to not use R is as important as knowing when to start.

The use of R for IAA is something you have to CAREFULLY feel your way through.

Is there infection involved?

Keep an eye on this -

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Sorry, I had gone to bed.

I don't think there is infection...no pus or anything. But the spots do eventually scab over. They behave a little differently depending on where they start. His skin is a weak organ and prone to issues.

Marje, poor Ozy is right. He has suffered so much from what he has endured with me. I am surprised he hasn't packed his bags and moved out of here. He has been very forgiving with me.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Sandy --

Feline eosinophilic granulomas are non-infectious. However, they are related to allergy and in some cases, auto-immune properties. Both allergy and auto-immune problems can be inflammatory and, at least my read on this, may mean that it may have an impact on diabetes management.

Donaleen -- what do you do to treat the outbreaks? I know that in some cases, vets will give a steroid shot. My vet has recommended omega-3 oil when Gabby had some allergy issues. Had this been a consideration for Ozy? Fish oil has anti-inflammatory properties and may be helpful provided he isn't allergic to fish. (Fish is a common allergy in cats.)

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Morning Sienne, is this allergies in the air or food allergies?

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Hi Donaleen,

Just wanted to let you know I'm following you and Ozy closely. We're going to get Cobb tested for IAA and acro. He doesn't have the acro symptoms but is stubbornly in the 300s. So you may not be alone for long!

You're doing great though. Just know others of us are following and interested!

~Suzanne

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Sienne, I don't do much to treat them anymore. I keep a close eye on them, feel them, scratch them when they itch toward the end of their cycle. They were the reason he was on prednisalone for so long. They were pretty bad and painful on his feet. We did try some sort of liquid that we soaked them in to dry them out. It was a blue liquid we got at the vet. He did poorly with the prednisalone. It made him feel really bad and I begged to take him off but the vet kept saying there would be dire consequences. He no longer gets them on his feet but his feet have scars where they used to be. He had remedies for them from the holistic vet that came to the house.... I don't remember what they were. Some of them seemed to help him for a while but nothing worked for very long. I think we got rid of all that stuff in a big cleanup last summer.

I would be opposed to giving him steroids. I would have a hard time giving any of my cats steroids after seeing what they did to Ozy. Keeping him on the prednisalone so long is my biggest shame. The owner of the practice said all that prednisalone gave him pancreatitis. Ozy has a permanent pass on vaccinations due to his autoimmune issues.

Here is a little history detail that I haven't explained, though it might not be important but might be confusing. We started with Ozy at Laurelhurst Vet, which is a very western medicine practice fairly near us. They have about six vets in the practice. When we first had Ozy, he saw all of them. Only one was a man and Ozy ended up seeing him because Ozy wasn't as freaked out with a man. That man disappeared from the practice after about a year. It is speculation on my part, but I think that he may have gotten into some trouble about how much prednisalone he prescribed for Ozy.

At the same time the owner of the practice said NO ONE could examine Ozy without sedating him. That was when I got someone to come to the house. It was just so hard on him to go to the vet and he had to go so often. The woman who made the home visits had a holistic practice and a different approach, which after all the prednisalone I was okay with. But I feel bad that she didn't recognize the signs of diabetes. That is my second biggest shame, that I let him wallow in diabetes for so long.

We are back at Laurelhurst vet now. And he no longer needs sedation to be examined. At least I was right about one thing.... I poured in lots of love and he became much easier to handle.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Good morning, Pattie. We have a 194. Woohoo! He continues to surprise me.

And, hello, Suzanne.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond Donalee. At work and internet was done. Nice number. Keep on dose as I am sure you have. You are doing well. Lets see what Ozy does tonight.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

And at +2 he is at 329... that isn't so nice.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

yes, the 329 is kinda ugly but shows that the antibodies are at work. Let's go with one more cycle and if bad, we will change tomorrow AM. Are you home enough to test often when you might start R. As Sandy said, you do need to be CAREFUL when using it. I am sure there are people here that will help you through that as will I.

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Yes, I am home enough. I stick close by his side because his numbers surprise me. I am afraid to leave him for very long...

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Hi Donaleen, I wanted to stop in and give my kudos as well for the care you are giving your baby. Quite an amazing journey you have going on here. It's gonna take me a while to catch up on everything having been gone for so long, but I think you're doing great and I'll be saying my prayers for Ozy! I hope you have a wonderful day.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

Post what your next test is please. Then lets make a plan for tonight.

pat

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320

I'll test him now and with whatever schedule you would like. How often and at what cycle times would you like me to test?

AMPS- 194
+2 329
+4 364
+7.5 374
+9.5 372

Surfing in the high pinks....

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320,+4-364

Ok, well the dose is not holding. Hope others will chip in here but I an thinking maybe you should go up. Let's see what others say

Pattie

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320,+4-364

Pattie, Ozy is now on Levemir so he probably hasn't hit his onset yet at +4. I just switched Neko to Lev a few months ago. It's early days yet to see if Ozy and Neko have similar patterns, both with IAA. Today's cycle looks similar to what Neko does most mornings.

I agree this is probably not the right dose yet though. At least with Neko, if she goes from a blue start to early pink, it's likely not enough juice.

As for testing Donaleen, if I see a cycle like that, I wait until a +9 or +10 so I can see at PS if Neko is going up or down, but otherwise the rest of the day is free.

 

Re: 12/26 Ozy AMPS-216,PMPS-320,+4-364

Thanks, Wendy. Putting that under my rock.

 

416 ouch. Nice that you went up to 6. Stay at this for a few cycles and see what Ozy does with it. Although now I don't test harley as often, in the beginning, I did test him often. I also think that at least once a month I did a curve in him to see what he was doing.

Pattie