12 hour cycle feeding and Shot

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Barneys dad, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    I have been reading the posts trying to come to grips with what I need to do going forward but 99% of the people answering questions don't seem to be on a true 12 hr feed and shoot cycle . By that I mean put out food monitor how much food is eating than give the shot after food so you know the cat has eat enough to justify amount of Insulin. I am sorry but given Insulin on a empty stomach and than hoping the cats eats enough or at all while you are at work or asleep is a problem just waiting to happen.

    Is anyone one on here doing controlled feeding? I would like to hear from someone that does.
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    I am feeding at 4 set times per 24-hour period. Two of those times are 6am and 6pm which are the shot times. Mia has eaten a few bites when I give her the shot, then she continues to eat for several minutes after. I have had three vets tell me - and my personal research has agreed - it is only necessary for them to eat very little before the shot, not their entire meal.
     
    Smokey'sMomma likes this.
  3. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    My cats are not on a twice-a-day, 12-hour feeding cycle, but I still monitor how much they eat and make sure they eat enough for safety. They get fed three or four times a day and have gotten to be pretty good about finishing their meals. If they don't finish, they eat at least half and then come back, usually within an hour, and finish it up. It did take a while for them to adjust to a feeding schedule; they were kibble grazers prior to Squallie's Dx.
     
  4. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    With Jones which is a grazer, I make sure he eats roughly a tbsp before giving his shot. Which sometimes means waiting 2o mins to give the shot. With lantus the onset is about 2 hours after his shot, so he has two hours to finish his meal in his feeder. I have done the observation method when home to see when he will go back to eat and it is usually around the 2 hour mark, the 3 hour mark and the 5 hour mark. He always has extra food in his dish in case it is needed.

    And the safety comes from testing those in between times...how low is the dose he is on taking him? Testing during the week when I can, doing curves on the weekends shows me what will happen on his typical day of graze eating.
     
    W.K. likes this.
  5. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    All mine get get fed twice daily in separate rooms/areas so I can monitor how much they eat. Except for Patches II, they get they shot after eating. Patches II gets it when she is finishing her food since like like to bit me unless I shoot when she is eating.
     
  6. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    Merry has no issues with eating his meals so I don't worry about this for him. I put his plate down, he starts to eat & then I inject his insulin as he's eating & he always cleans his plate right away. This is a good thing but unfortunately I think his "good" eating habits come from being underfed in his previous home but he gets lots of food now :)
     
  7. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    My vet was very clear with his type of Insulin if the cat does not eat around half the food than cut the dose. if he does not eat then skip the shot.
     
  8. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    With three cats that will not work because now you are guess who ate what and when. As I have said Grazing is 100% out not only because of who ate what but the cost. Special diet for one 12 lb cat is enough without feeding another 35 lbs of cats the same food. You only have to be wrong once to over dose and miss it will your at work or asleep unless the cat always runs high sugar because there bodies are producing no insulin. Barney is still producing some insulin from what I understand of the lab blood work just not enough.
     
  9. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    I have individual feeders which is linked up their microchips. I have 4 cats...all different dietary needs. It was expensive investment but worth my sanity. SureFeed is the name.

    That way the special good goes to the special kitty. No more wasted food and portion control. It has saved me money in the end.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  10. Elinor & Sibon

    Elinor & Sibon Member

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    Jul 18, 2017
    @Tracey&Jones I've just watched the video on SureFeed. Wow.
    How do you get that one cat to recognize the device and that it's meant for him?
     
  11. Cherish Gallagher

    Cherish Gallagher Member

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    Mar 27, 2017
    A lot of our vets are very clear about 1 important thing; they don’t know that much about feline diabetes. I guarantee a lot of us would have dead cats if we wouldn’t have found this place and JUST listened to vet advice.
     
  12. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    @Elinor & Sibon

    Each cat already had their own "place" to eat. So I set up the feeders in the same place. It comes with some really clear instructions. I registered the cats but left the feeders open for a few days for them to get used to eating out of them - didn't matter which feeder. As they say in the instructions, some cats are quicker on the uptake then others. Jones was the slowest and I actually had to have the bowl just on the ledge vs. in the feeder for a few days. Once everyone is good, then I started with the learning stage part with the flap. At this point if they go to the wrong bowl, they get the flapped closed on them. They learn quickly which bowl opens and stays open for them. Then within 10 days everyone was on normal operations - bowl in and flapped closed. They have to open their particular bowl by entering the feeder.

    I like them because - 1) my sanity with different foods and 4 cats 2) It allows me to have dry and wet (with the split bowl) or just wet with the full bowl 3) it actually keeps the food very moist through out the day as it is sealed 4) the smell is contained because of the seal 5) It is very easy to clean both the machine and the bowls.

    I bought extra bowls so when I am gone I can preload the dishes and mark with for who is taking care of the cats for me if it is a day or two.

    I bought if off Amazon.ca It had this deal where if you bought two there is a discount so the second one was like 40% off. I don't see that anymore though in the coupon section..
     
  13. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Since you do not have a signature set up yet and had not mentioned your type of insulin in the initial post, I did not know what it was. I looked in some of your other posts and found that you are using Vetsulin. This is all it says about food in the product documentation: "For cats fed twice daily, the injections should be given concurrently with, or right after each meal. For cats fed ad libitum, no change in feeding schedule is needed."
     
  14. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    That is the risk you run every time you inject. Insulin is not a give X and get Y outcome - ever! Every day, every cycle changes. One day the pancreas decides to wake up and rally for the day. One day kitty decides to puke up all that food that he just ate 40 minutes ago and you injected.

    It is trying to find the trends and work within those boundaries as well as deal with the bumps in the road. I see from the post above that you are using Vetsulin which I am not familiar with as Jones is on Lantus and is on prednisolone which affects his BG's.

    There is many little nuisances to this dance and ECID - every cat is different on how they respond and their particular needs.

    I wish you success in finding the structured feeding schedule that Barney and you need.
     
    Tanya and Ducia likes this.
  15. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    ??? Insulin is a give X and expect Y outcome. Everyone on here is testing and basing the amount of Insulin on the number so that is just what there are doing. Give X amount of Insulin to lower the numbers by Y amount But unlike a human people are injecting the cat based on a test number and what the hope the cat will eat. A Human knows if they inject insulin they have to eat and when they have to eat based on the dosage and timing. .
     
  16. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    No it is not...

    ...I don't give .25 units and expect each and every day at exactly the same time intervals specific definable drops in BG. I hope for a favourable outcome and hope to hit below the renal threshold range. Never mind the amount of food, the carb content of the food, if he feels well that day, is he having an IBD flare to raise his BG numbers, did he puke today, what are the medications he is on doing to his BG today. Which will all affect how his system happens to be working that day and how able his body is to "work the juice" so to speak. This is my circumstance.

    The next person giving .25 units - may be working toward remission and doesn't have any other factors outside of food intake and carb content to deal with. Their goal is remission - which is hoping for those green healing numbers.

    So .25 of insulin does not give the same Y outcome - because there is too many factors going into how the their little bodies are going to work today.

    As I stated above...Every day, every cycle changes.

    Now, there are different insulins that are available - and they "act" differently. So should we throw a Z out there too? There is different protocols that are outlined here for the different insulins. Lantus has two - SLGS or TR. Which is the insulin Jones is on.

    So, again, I hope you success with Barney - however you define that.
     
    Sharon14 and Tanya and Ducia like this.
  17. hmclaughlin1973

    hmclaughlin1973 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Yep! PJ was just diagnosed Saturday and would have died last night if I weren't testing at home which my vet didn't even mention was an option...I just took on myself after doing some research BEFORE I started his insulin yesterday.
     
    Cherish Gallagher likes this.
  18. hmclaughlin1973

    hmclaughlin1973 Member

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    Oct 3, 2017
    I just started this and my routine is: I test, then feed for 15 mins then give insulin
     
  19. Smokey'sMomma

    Smokey'sMomma New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    She said it is linked to their individual microchips. I think that is pure genius.
     
  20. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    If they do not have microchips, SureFeed has tags that will work. They told me they are coming out with a new model next year that links to the internet and tracks when and how much specific pets are eating. (They still are not adding the ability to limit the times when the thing will open though.)
     
  21. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    I know - that would be great feature! I didn't know about the new model...that said...you put a half can in the bowl - you know what is left. I guess that would only work if you have a feeder for each cat though.


    They do have tags and the feeder comes with 2 tags and 1 of each of the bowls (split and open).
     
  22. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    ????Your response makes no sense. The fact you are varying the amount of Insulin based on pre shot number and how your cat reacts, (past history) shows you are doing it correctly. I don't understand why you keep tring to tie this up in knots. You are wrong about the food not effecting the cats readings or the effect the insulin is going to have. The is one of the most disturbing things I have seen on here is the fact people ignore the food angle beyond just switch food and often feed different food daily with different nutritional values and expect to control things. Let me ask do you track the results of different foods at the same time as your suger vs Insuiln? If not than you are to use your words just HOPING because a 0.25 change is NOT going to have the same effect if amoumt a give food raise the blood suger vs a different food. Human, cat, dog etc the cause and effect of food is the same . Some food is going cause a bigger or smaller spike and at different time frame than a different food.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017

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