Bit of a bounce appears to be clearing

Patty & Teal'c

Patty & Teal'c

Member Since 2019
6 days ago my husband forgot to pick up the dogs food after feeding time. I figured I would see a few days of higher numbers. I didnt think that 6 days and it's still nothing but 400+. I'm weary of testing just to see nothing better. My vial of Prozinc is in the last half of vial. Have had it since 11/11/19. Could it no longer be working or do need to try an increase or a different insulin. How long will an event such as the dog food last?

Staying up today till +6 testing every 2 hours in the Hope's I've just been missing something. Going to sleep short before work cause I really need to to see something good. It can't be good to be so high all the time.
 
First of all, Patricia I wanted to say to remember to take care of yourself. You need to take care of you so you can take care of the rest of your family, furry and human. Don't go beating yourself up over what happened in the past. Think of what you can do to go forward from this point. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Bullet points for you, so you don't miss something in your exhaustion.
  • It usually takes about 3 days to see food pass through the digestive tract and stop affecting the BG numbers.
  • Could your Prozinc have pooped out? no longer effective? Do you see floating particles? Well mixed each time you use it? Refrigerated since opening? Short exposures to room temp are usually ok. Like if you forgot and left it out overnight are ok, left out for days is not ok.
  • Was it frozen? Subjected to light? Not stored upright? Not refrigerated? Any of these storage conditions can effect the life span of Prozinc.
  • "6.3Shelf life Shelf life of the veterinary medicinal product as packaged for sale: 3years. Shelf life after first opening the
  • immediate packaging: 60days." In the US, the manufacturer says 2 year shelf life since manufacturer. Could not find US manufacturer info for US on how long it's supposed to last since opened. This is in Europe.
  • https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/product-information/prozinc-epar-product-information_en.pdf 2018 article from European Medicines Agency.
  • "Special warnings for each target species:Very stressful events, inappetance,concomitant treatment with gestagens and corticosteroids or other concomitant diseases (e.g. gastro-intestinal,infectious or inflammatory or endocrine diseases), might influence insulin effectiveness and therefore the insulin dose may need to be adjusted."
  • Set an alarm for that +6 test. Or do you mean you are doing a mini-curve today?
  • Yes, being high so much is not good. Long term damage to organs and such being done. Plus ask any human diabetic, you don't feel very good when you always have those high BG's.
  • Staying in high numbers a lot of the time can lead to insulin resistance also. So you may need to increase the dose.
  • Look at the Protocol for Prozinc sticky at the top of this forum for guidance.
  • Discuss the dose with your vet.
  • In my inexperienced opinion, holding the dose at 1.75U for a long as you have, more than a month is not doing Teal'c any good. You need to reevaluate more often and up the dose if not below your shoot/no shoot limit (250 currently? I think ) at AMPS or PMPS AND drops of <50% from those pre-shots. You've not had a lot of drops to of 50% or more at those mid-cycle tests.
  • In other words, nadirs have rarely been too low, lower than half (50%) of the pre-shot numbers.
  • Call your vet for "shelf life once opened" info. Call the manufacturer for the same info. Never mind, I did that for you 1.866.638.2226 I did call them and veterinary technical support told me 60 days once the vial is punctured.
  • You are already past that 60 day period. Suggest new vial ASAP.
  • Please test for ketones at least weekly, as high BG's and other factors can let them develop. Quickly. Daily if there are other factors in play, such as if your cat has had ketones or DKA ever before.
  • Insulin resistance or bouncing? Could be both.
Pinch hitting here in this forum since the regular folks are out due to vacation/illness/family drama/death in family, etc.

Please don't wait so long to yell for help. We are very shorthanded with volunteers right now, even more so with experienced users of Prozinc, Vetsulin/Caninsulin/NPH insulins. I think you 'fell through the cracks' here in the Prozinc forum.

Me, I've got some limited experience with NPH insulins and Lantus. Still, general guidance is within my comfort zone.
 
Hi Patricia- I know seeing those high numbers can be very frustrating!! I'm sorry you're having such a hard time right now. I'm not an expert, and I've only been using ProZinc for about a month, but my personal opinion (if my cat's spreadsheet looked like yours), I would increase the dose to 2 units and give it a few days to see if it brings the numbers down any, then reevaluate the dose from there.
 
I was going to do just that even if no one responded to my post. I did go to 2 units right around Christmas he responded with numbers over 500 preshot I was told at the time I should have stayed at 1.75 I have been reluctant to go back up since I thought I did something wrong the first time.

I've called the vet and they do have Prozinc on hand so trying to compose myself long enough to go pick it up. I cried so much over what I've been seeing and was starting to feel alone.

Part of me still feels he might do better on a different insulin he only dropped down for +2 and +4 and was on his way back up by +6. That's a very short time span.

I have posted on here both in this and in the health one in Hope's someone would take a look but for me that hasn't been the case. Thank you for your time i appreciate the help.
 
Some cats do better on one insulin than another. Ask your vet about the possibility of Lantus or Levimir, the 2 other good insulins for cats.

Please, please, please, send out another request for help. If you don't get a response in the Feline Health forum, reply to your own post with the word "Bump". It moves it to the top of the queue and makes it more visible. That lets us know someone didn't get an answer and still needs help. Change the title on your post to something more relevant. Put the question mark prefix on your post.

Sorry, very sorry no one replied to your posts earlier.

All I can say is that we are very, very shorthanded right now with folks on vacation, out sick, elderly relatives, death in the family, work responsibilities, etc. It's not an excuse, but alerting you to what is going on with some of our volunteers. We never want people to feel alone here. We're trying the best we can.

I'm tagging @Marje and Gracie. She is back from vacation, but trying, desperately trying to catch up on all that has gone before. Just to get you that second opinion. Hoping she knows some other people with Prozinc experience.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
p.s. When you get a new bottle of insulin. Make a note of that on your SS. Use one of the rows and put it in big bold letters. We want that to stand out when we are reviewing your SS.
 
I don't who told you that you should not have increased the dose or their reasoning, so I can't speak to that.

Again- not an expert, and this was when I was using a different insulin, but we had to increase Socks' dose several times before the numbers starting coming down. After that happened, we were able to decrease the dose after some time. We started at 2 units and went up to 4.75 units before being able to decrease. Knowing what I know now, I would have actually decreased sooner, but I was only testing before shots, with hardly any in between. Getting those in between tests can make a big difference for sure!

You've been at 1.75 units for quite a while now, and the numbers aren't coming down, so sticking with that dose, you're definitely not going to see any changes. Maybe try some increases since you're getting a new vial, and if that doesn't work, you can look into one of the depot insulins. I don't have any experience with those, but I know they're supposed to be very good. It seems (from the "spying" I've done on other posts) like if you can get the pens and use them like vials, they last until they're all used up, so even though they're more expensive, they last a long time, so they may actually come out cheaper. My cat is doing ok so far on ProZinc, and having a more flexible schedule with an in and out insulin is nice, so I'm putting off switching for now.
 
Thank you all. I do understand how much you all do for people here I read others post daily in Hope's I might learn something new to help me. I did go to the vet office and got new vial. I started crying again as I do that a lot now. They had a vet come talk to me about Teal'c. He agrees after seeing my SS and said to do 7 days at 2 units then a curve and get back with him after the curve to reevaluate what 2 units is doing for Teal'c. It was a different vet then I saw the first time and unlike the vibes I got first time I feel this one had positive vibes. The first one was like 2 units heres your insulin don't change his food and bye bye. This one seemed to care I feel a bit better.
 
Patricia Chambers said:
I was going to do just that even if no one responded to my post. I did go to 2 units right around Christmas he responded with numbers over 500 preshot I was told at the time I should have stayed at 1.75 I have been reluctant to go back up since I thought I did something wrong the first time.
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I found it! The post where someone told you to go back down to 1.75U.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/bounce-or-something-else.223437/

Linda didn't mean for you to stay at that 1.75U for so long. But she had a very sick elderly kitty herself and didn't/couldn't get back to you.

p.s. When do you and your husband ever have time together, with you working night shift and him working day shift?
 
Not very often we do have some weekends off together. Think our relationship is strong because we cherish the little time we do have together also no time to argue lol.
 
If it were my cat I'd do 2 units. See what happens. If no improvement in a 2-3 days of go to 2.25.
 
Patty, I just stopped in to tell you that you're awesome. Yes, its terribly frustrating to be doing so much and not see the improvement that you expect, and it's scary too. I just wanted to remind you that because Teal'c has such an awesome mama, he's going to have a longer, healthier, and happier life. Cry when you need to, but never forget that you rock.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Patty, I just stopped in to tell you that you're awesome. Yes, its terribly frustrating to be doing so much and not see the improvement that you expect, and it's scary too. I just wanted to remind you that because Teal'c has such an awesome mama, he's going to have a longer, healthier, and happier life. Cry when you need to, but never forget that you rock.
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Thank you for that.
 
Patty

I know your schedules are crazy, as I recall. If there is any way your husband can get a couple tests at night, besides the preshot, it would be helpful. We have to be cautious about raising the dose if you don’t know how low the current dose is taking him.

I agree that the 1.75u dose was held too long and that he might be having a bit of insulin resistance. Normally, we want to reevaluate the dose after every six cycles to see if the dose needs to go up unless he earns a reduction by dropping below 90 (assuming you are doing Start Low Go Slow).

You might want to look at Do Daa’s Spreadsheet. There are some similarities. Once Goose was testing more, we could increase the dose more often and get Daa into better numbers.
 
I'm doing the pm preshot now I'm only working a 10hr shift. I could do a +1 since I don't leave the house till 6:10 pm now I'll ask him to do one before he goes to bed which would be appx +3 to 3 & 1/2 if that would help. He lays down around 7 to 7:30.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
I'm doing the pm preshot now I'm only working a 10hr shift. I could do a +1 since I don't leave the house till 6:10 pm now I'll ask him to do one before he goes to bed which would be appx +3 to 3 & 1/2 if that would help. He lays down around 7 to 7:30.
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Those additional tests would help. Sorry to put a bit of extra work on you and your husband Bobby. But we are very data dependent here to see what is going on with Teal'c and one of the best ways we know to do that is with a few more random tests and seeing those on the SS.

There are some visual assessments you can do. I call them the 5 P's plus appetite. So how is Teal'c doing with the 5 P's? (playing, purring, peeing, pooping, preening)? A quick note on the SS in the remarks column saying something like "5 P's good" or "still peeing too much" helps too when we look at the SS. How is Teal'c's appetite? Good? So So? Still starving and begging all the time?

You and Bobby have an absolutely INSANE work schedule. Plus all of life's normal responsibilities. The addition of the feline diabetes diagnosis for Teal'c could have been the "straw that broke the camel's back."

But you are hanging in there. Maybe it feels like you are barely hanging in sometimes, "by the skin of your teeth" but you are hanging in there.

We are here to provide moral support as well as suggestions on what you might do to get Teal'c better. If I lived anywhere near you, I'd come and give you some hugs and a pep talk. But I'm not, so here is the best I can do hug wise. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

We are a community here. You are part of that community. Reach out to us when you are feeling overwhelmed, or just need to talk to someone else. Or need a shoulder to cry on. Or need to scream and shout in frustration (like with the dog food incident). Too many times, we focus on the food/insulin/testing and don't remember the moral support part. I think that is just as important. Some people don't like to read all that "extraneous" info, but to me it's NOT "fluff" or "TMI" or "unnecessary" info.

It's understanding what is going on in people's lives and being supportive of the people, the caregiver or in your case the caregivers trying their hardest to help their cat. It's making connections with members here like you Patricia, and your husband Bobby.

Stay strong. Take care of yourself too. A small piece of chocolate as a treat for yourself. Go for a walk in nature, whatever refreshes your mind. Even if it's only for a few minutes.

Mindfulness breathing. Where you concentrate on your breath and shut out all other thoughts can help. If your mind starts to wander, block out the negative thoughts and concentrate on the moment and your breathing. Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.

It may sound "corny" or "hokey" but it works. Found an article on Firefox Pocket yesterday that I bookmarked. Why we are Hardwired to Worry. You may find it of interest.

Keep working with your vet. Sounds like the other vet you talked to yesterday has a "better bedside manner". More aware of how difficult this can be for someone with a diabetic cat and how very, very hard you are trying to help Teal'c and how much you love him.

Yes, your vet may be right on the old vial of Prozinc being good. Manufacturer only says good for 60 days after rubber stopper is punctured because of possible contamination issues, with bacteria, the insulin components degrade over time, they only tested efficacy for the 60 days.

p.s. I'll try to keep a closer eye on you. But something may be going on in my life too, so be sure to reach out to others if you don't get a response. Not very experienced with Prozinc, never used it personally. Do know a bit about the in-and-out insulins. Still learning. May stumble a bit. Afraid of telling you the wrong thing. 'First do no harm.' That is my biggest fear.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Those additional tests would help. Sorry to put a bit of extra work on you and your husband Bobby. But we are very data dependent here to see what is going on with Teal'c and one of the best ways we know to do that is with a few more random tests and seeing those on the SS.

There are some visual assessments you can do. I call them the 5 P's plus appetite. So how is Teal'c doing with the 5 P's? (playing, purring, peeing, pooping, preening)? A quick note on the SS in the remarks column saying something like "5 P's good" or "still peeing too much" helps too when we look at the SS. How is Teal'c's appetite? Good? So So? Still starving and begging all the time?

You and Bobby have an absolutely INSANE work schedule. Plus all of life's normal responsibilities. The addition of the feline diabetes diagnosis for Teal'c could have been the "straw that broke the camel's back."

But you are hanging in there. Maybe it feels like you are barely hanging in sometimes, "by the skin of your teeth" but you are hanging in there.

We are here to provide moral support as well as suggestions on what you might do to get Teal'c better. If I lived anywhere near you, I'd come and give you some hugs and a pep talk. But I'm not, so here is the best I can do hug wise. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

We are a community here. You are part of that community. Reach out to us when you are feeling overwhelmed, or just need to talk to someone else. Or need a shoulder to cry on. Or need to scream and shout in frustration (like with the dog food incident). Too many times, we focus on the food/insulin/testing and don't remember the moral support part. I think that is just as important. Some people don't like to read all that "extraneous" info, but to me it's NOT "fluff" or "TMI" or "unnecessary" info.

It's understanding what is going on in people's lives and being supportive of the people, the caregiver or in your case the caregivers trying their hardest to help their cat. It's making connections with members here like you Patricia, and your husband Bobby.

Stay strong. Take care of yourself too. A small piece of chocolate as a treat for yourself. Go for a walk in nature, whatever refreshes your mind. Even if it's only for a few minutes.

Mindfulness breathing. Where you concentrate on your breath and shut out all other thoughts can help. If your mind starts to wander, block out the negative thoughts and concentrate on the moment and your breathing. Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.

It may sound "corny" or "hokey" but it works. Found an article on Firefox Pocket yesterday that I bookmarked. Why we are Hardwired to Worry. You may find it of interest.

Keep working with your vet. Sounds like the other vet you talked to yesterday has a "better bedside manner". More aware of how difficult this can be for someone with a diabetic cat and how very, very hard you are trying to help Teal'c and how much you love him.

Yes, your vet may be right on the old vial of Prozinc being good. Manufacturer only says good for 60 days after rubber stopper is punctured because of possible contamination issues, with bacteria, the insulin components degrade over time, they only tested efficacy for the 60 days.

p.s. I'll try to keep a closer eye on you. But something may be going on in my life too, so be sure to reach out to others if you don't get a response. Not very experienced with Prozinc, never used it personally. Do know a bit about the in-and-out insulins. Still learning. May stumble a bit. Afraid of telling you the wrong thing. 'First do no harm.' That is my biggest fear.
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Thank you for all that. He is what I would consider a frantic water drinker. At times he lays in front of water bowl like he is protecting it, it has a bottle that attaches to bowl in the back. When he gets a drink he tries to get his head so far into the bowl and starts pushing it around the room. It's like he is drinking like there won't be any tomorrow. As for peeing it is outrageous it's enough I half fill a bathroom size trash can twice a day. No pooping problems. The litter pan is a shared pan with the 4 year old.
He doesn't act like he is starving but he is more then ready to eat after the 2 hours before each test and shot. He does eat his treats after testing like he is starving. He gets 1/2 can of either Friskies pate, Fancy Feast Pate or Dr. Elsey's pate ever 12 hours. I also leave out Dr. Elsey's dry clean protein for him to graze on
His fur is dull and he has bad dandruff, however he has had a dandruff issue over the past 3 or 4 years. Last march he was weighing 20 lbs he wasn't grooming himself well so took him to the vet for full bloodwork and to shave him to remove the mats. They said at that time he needed to loose 3 lbs. What they didn't tell me is his BG was elevated, they did tell me at his dx and said they thought it was stress related. By dx he was down to 13.4 lbs. He has put on weight, this is not a true weight, but I stand on the scale and then pick him up and stand on scale the difference is about 15 lbs.
He has no signs of neuropathy and still jumps without a problem.
He doesn't play much. The 4 year old will engage him in play but he does not initiate play himself. He sleeps a lot. He will be 14 years old June 1st and hasn't played much since his half brother passed on suddenly. They shared the same mom but from litters a year and 15 days apart. They were very close. That's a picture of them together as my avatar.
I didn't get a lot of test yesterday slept for 9 hrs after my pity party the day before, but the first thing I noticed was this morning he was once again over 500 and only dropped slightly by +4. Thought here we go again because he was higher at 2units the last time i tried 2units. Still about the same at pm shot. I'm off tonight and testing the odd hours since I always seem to test even numbers. He finally did drop below 400. I work tomorrow but off Saturday and Sunday plan on doing a curve one of those days.

Still need to talk to Bobby about testing before he goes to bed. Right now he thinks we need to give his ears a break but I will try to convince him it is necessary.

That's a picture of a clump to give an idea of how much he is peeing. However, he always uses the litter box.

Sorry so long but wanted to address some of your questions.
 

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Patty & Teal'c said:
Thank you for all that. He is what I would consider a frantic water drinker. At times he lays in front of water bowl like he is protecting it, it has a bottle that attaches to bowl in the back. When he gets a drink he tries to get his head so far into the bowl and starts pushing it around the room. It's like he is drinking like there won't be any tomorrow. As for peeing it is outrageous it's enough I half fill a bathroom size trash can twice a day. No pooping problems. The litter pan is a shared pan with the 4 year old.
He doesn't act like he is starving but he is more then ready to eat after the 2 hours before each test and shot. He does eat his treats after testing like he is starving. He gets 1/2 can of either Friskies pate, Fancy Feast Pate or Dr. Elsey's pate ever 12 hours. I also leave out Dr. Elsey's dry clean protein for him to graze on
His fur is dull and he has bad dandruff, however he has had a dandruff issue over the past 3 or 4 years. Last march he was weighing 20 lbs he wasn't grooming himself well so took him to the vet for full bloodwork and to shave him to remove the mats. They said at that time he needed to loose 3 lbs. What they didn't tell me is his BG was elevated, they did tell me at his dx and said they thought it was stress related. By dx he was down to 13.4 lbs. He has put on weight, this is not a true weight, but I stand on the scale and then pick him up and stand on scale the difference is about 15 lbs.
He has no signs of neuropathy and still jumps without a problem.
He doesn't play much. The 4 year old will engage him in play but he does not initiate play himself. He sleeps a lot. He will be 14 years old June 1st and hasn't played much since his half brother passed on suddenly. They shared the same mom but from litters a year and 15 days apart. They were very close. That's a picture of them together as my avatar.
I didn't get a lot of test yesterday slept for 9 hrs after my pity party the day before, but the first thing I noticed was this morning he was once again over 500 and only dropped slightly by +4. Thought here we go again because he was higher at 2units the last time i tried 2units. Still about the same at pm shot. I'm off tonight and testing the odd hours since I always seem to test even numbers. He finally did drop below 400. I work tomorrow but off Saturday and Sunday plan on doing a curve one of those days.

Still need to talk to Bobby about testing before he goes to bed. Right now he thinks we need to give his ears a break but I will try to convince him it is necessary.

That's a picture of a clump to give an idea of how much he is peeing. However, he always uses the litter box.

Sorry so long but wanted to address some of your questions.
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When was the last time you had a full blood panel done on him? There are other things that can cause him to drink like that such as hyperthyroidism or chronic kidney disease. If you haven’t had a Superchem and a tT4 done on him lately, it might be worthwhile to do so.

One other housekeeping thing: I would strongly urge you to remove your last name and your location from the signature block. We do have the occasional scammer and they could see your name, location, and your work hours. It wouldn’t be hard to track you down and know when someone might not be at home.
 
Thank you have made changes to signature. It will have been a year in March. Will call vet and make an appointment for these test I thought it was part of diabetes so never thought to test for anything else. Thank you for the suggestion.
Marje and Gracie said:
When was the last time you had a full blood panel done on him? There are other things that can cause him to drink like that such as hyperthyroidism or chronic kidney disease. If you haven’t had a Superchem and a tT4 done on him lately, it might be worthwhile to do so.

One other housekeeping thing: I would strongly urge you to remove your last name and your location from the signature block. We do have the occasional scammer and they could see your name, location, and your work hours. It wouldn’t be hard to track you down and know when someone might not be at home.
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Patty & Teal'c said:
Thank you have made changes to signature. It will have been a year in March. Will call vet and make an appointment for these test I thought it was part of diabetes so never thought to test for anything else. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Thank you for the changes.

While it can be from the diabetes, he’s not so high where he should be guzzling water. It probably is best to have him checked. If he is hyperthyroid, it might also be why he’s not better regulated.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Thank you for the changes.

While it can be from the diabetes, he’s not so high where he should be guzzling water. It probably is best to have him checked. If he is hyperthyroid, it might also be why he’s not better regulated.
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Good to know. I just don't understand why vets don't tell you these things.
If I had know what the dry nitro cat food was doing this could have been avoided. I'm thankful that I know now and can help not create the same problems for the 4 year old! Hard way to learn however.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
Good to know. I just don't understand why vets don't tell you these things.
If I had know what the dry nitro cat food was doing this could have been avoided. I'm thankful that I know now and can help not create the same problems for the 4 year old! Hard way to learn however.
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I completely agree. You and Bobby are doing the best you can.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
Good to know. I just don't understand why vets don't tell you these things.
If I had know what the dry nitro cat food was doing this could have been avoided. I'm thankful that I know now and can help not create the same problems for the 4 year old! Hard way to learn however.
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Like most people doctors, most vets aren't really nutritionists. Here in this forum, we've seen exactly how the right nutrition can have astounding effects on our furbabies. Yet many vets still prescribe a high carb dry diet for diabetes.

The good thing is that you know now. You were smart enough to get online and look for the answers yourself. That's what's going to help Teal'c more than anything, and it's absolutely going to help your youngster. I know it's frustrating, and I know there's an element of "Why didn't I figure this out sooner?!" We all feel that way when we first find out. The important thing is you know now, you are making the important changes in diet, and Teal'c is going to benefit from everything you are learning. And all of that is because you are brilliant. You rock!
 
I just wanted to say I think you and your husband are doing an awesome job looking after Teal’c. It’s not easy with full time jobs and other responsibilities but you seem to have a routine worked out.
Lucky Teal’c!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I just wanted to say I think you and your husband are doing an awesome job looking after Teal’c. It’s not easy with full time jobs and other responsibilities but you seem to have a routine worked out.
Lucky Teal’c!
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Thank you. I am doing a curve tonight But from what I've seen so far I am believing that I will need to increase his dose according to the SLGS method. Funny thinking back I had read that and decided that was the way I was going to go since we have Prozinc. Maybe I was too confused upset unable to understand what just happened over the whole dx at the time. I took the time to reread it and it was like a light. Very much explains if you see this you need to do this, if you see that you need to do that. A sudden realization that maybe I do have it this time. If I do decided to increase it will be by .25 that will bring him to 2.25 and see what that gets him. I don't want to go too fast SLGS. It does suggest .5 but since I can't always be home because of work I'd rather do .25 at a time. I'm not off again till next Friday and by then I should be able to tell how we are doing at 2.25.

He has been showing a bit more life this week. He jumped up on the sofa with my husband to lay with my husband which he hasn't done in awhile. He was laying on the kitchen floor on his back with his belly exposed which he hasn't done for a long time. He even swiped at the 4 year old as she went flying by him today. Signs of him feeling better I think. Still peeing and drinking a lot but as we approach the right dose I hope that will get better as well. I'm feeling better to then when I first posted this I now have hope.
 
Hope keeps our dreams alive.

Those little signs that our kitties do, such as "laying on the kitchen floor on his back with his belly exposed which he hasn't done for a long time. He even swiped at the 4 year old as she went flying by him today. Signs of him feeling better I think." tell us what we are doing for them is making a difference.

So, inquiring minds want to know. Did Teal'c get a belly rub?
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hope keeps our dreams alive.

Those little signs that our kitties do, such as "laying on the kitchen floor on his back with his belly exposed which he hasn't done for a long time. He even swiped at the 4 year old as she went flying by him today. Signs of him feeling better I think." tell us what we are doing for them is making a difference.

So, inquiring minds want to know. Did Teal'c get a belly rub?
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Lol yes he did. Husband was really happy to see a part of the old Teal'c.
 
Deb & Wink said:
How are things going for you today Patty?
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Doing good. Had to go to the vet to get the blind dog her eye meds They cost more then Teal'c insulin 60$ for a tube that last 2 weeks. That's another story kind of nice she gets her eye meds every 12 hours as well so do both her and Teal'c at the same time. Told the receptionist I needed to talk to the vet about the curve I did last night. Was hoping I'd get the same vet I got the last time and not the first one I had.
Not the case out came the vet who made the dx the one who said heres your insulin 2 units 2x perday bye bye. Thought for a moment about asking for a different vet on the spot. Then decided I'd show him my SS see where that would lead. I pulled out the phone and pulled up the ss. He says "I'm impressed." He said that the data I have that I do need to increase to 2.5 and do another curve in a week. He also told me that most people don't put that much time and effort into trying to control feline diabetes. He said he is awarding me the diabetic pet owner award of the year lol. He said he would like to see more yellow and blues. Right now I'm feeling more positive.

My husband and I are going out of town February 11-13 the kitties will be at the vets for those 3 days on my SS what should I enter?

Thank you for asking. Hope everything is good with you and yours.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
Then decided I'd show him my SS see where that would lead. I pulled out the phone and pulled up the ss. He says "I'm impressed." He said that the data I have that I do need to increase to 2.5 and do another curve in a week. He also told me that most people don't put that much time and effort into trying to control feline diabetes. He said he is awarding me the diabetic pet owner award of the year lol. He said he would like to see more yellow and blues. Right now I'm feeling more positive.
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Vets are blown away with how much care we are willing to put into our diabetic cats. Not many owners are.

More yellows and blues would be good for sure. You are looking for about a 50% drop in BG's from Pre-shot test to nadir with Prozinc. High numbers at the pre-shots will continue happening for a while.

My husband and I are going out of town February 11-13 the kitties will be at the vets for those 3 days on my SS what should I enter?
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Something like AT VET Clinic, Boarding in the remarks column would be good.

Will the vet clinic be testing while you are away? Feeding the same food you are giving Teal'c now?
 
Yes I always take their food with me with instructions how I feed at home. I'm going to guess they will test once during those 3 days last time they had him 12 days and only tested 6 times total. Is it alright for me to ask that they at least test each pre shot??
Deb & Wink said:
Vets are blown away with how much care we are willing to put into our diabetic cats. Not many owners are.

More yellows and blues would be good for sure. You are looking for about a 50% drop in BG's from Pre-shot test to nadir with Prozinc. High numbers at the pre-shots will continue happening for a while.

Something like AT VET Clinic, Boarding in the remarks column would be good.

Will the vet clinic be testing while you are away? Feeding the same food you are giving Teal'c now?
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Patty & Teal'c said:
Yes I always take their food with me with instructions how I feed at home. I'm going to guess they will test once during those 3 days last time they had him 12 days and only tested 6 times total. Is it alright for me to ask that they at least test each pre shot??
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Absolutely. Ask for pre-shot tests. They may not have the clinic staffed at night. One possibility I can think of why they did not test much last time. But only testing once every other day? Hummmm.

You may have to pay more. Don't know. Boarding facility near me does all food and medications the pet owner requests.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Absolutely. Ask for pre-shot tests. They may not have the clinic staffed at night. One possibility I can think of why they did not test much last time. But only testing once every other day? Hummmm.

You may have to pay more. Don't know. Boarding facility near me does all food and medications the pet owner requests.
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I don't mind paying more, I'll talk to them about testing see what they say.
 
This morning day 4 after dose increase preshot of 275. Above 200 so gave his dose of 2.5 units of Prozinc. Actually thought when I got home from work and cleaned litter box there was less pee clumps in it. I am hopeful we might be turning a good corner. Will keep an eye on him incase he goes too low. Ate well. That number is the best I've seen in awhile and made me smile.

So mad at myself. Set alarm for +4 wanted to track how low he would go today cause I knew he would bounce by tonight (which he did). When the alarm went off I shut it off and went back to sleep. So missed an opportunity to see what would happen. Husband didn't wake me till +9 so it had passed. Doing a curve tonight should have stayed up and done it today cause this will be an elevated curve based off a bounce.
 
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Seems to take Teal'c time to respond to those dose increases. 7-8 cycles.

Smiles!!!!! Your smile muscles need some exercise and so glad they got some this morning.:D Big wide grins.

Less or smaller pee clumps is good. Just keep an eye out for pee clumps the size of a 50 cent piece or smaller. Could indicate the start of a urinary tract blockage if the pee clumps get down to the size of a quarter or smaller. Male cats are more prone to this type of issue.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Seems to take Teal'c time to respond to those dose increases. 7-8 cycles.

Smiles!!!!! Your smile muscles need some exercise and so glad they got some this morning.:D Big wide grins.

Less or smaller pee clumps is good. Just keep an eye out for pee clumps the size of a 50 cent piece or smaller. Could indicate the start of a urinary tract blockage if the pee clumps get down to the size of a quarter or smaller. Male cats are more prone to this type of issue.
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Thank you that is good info to know and will watch for that. He is still peeing more then normal but less then he was. Instead of filling a bathroom trashcan everyday we are getting about half a trashcan maybe less. I clean it twice a day so just a guesstamation.

I'm angry at myself for shutting off the alarm and not getting up at the +4 today and he was really high at pmps, but ran my weekly curve knowing this might be high from a bounce. It wasn't as bad as I had imagined it would be. Looks like lowest was between the +3 & +5 then headed up, at +10 was still in 300's. I expect 400's by amps, but it is looking like we are getting closer to his right dose. Unless I'm trying to read something more into this then it's really showing me.

He has been more active lately even tried to go out the front door when I took the dogs out. All our animals are inside animals. Have had inside/outside cats before and their longevity is not good.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
I'm angry at myself for shutting off the alarm and not getting up at the +4 today
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In all my decades of life, I've never reached a "state of perfection". Just this past week, I forgot to fill one of my cat's water dishes. She has several, but drinks a ton of water, so she did not run out of liquid refreshment but had licked that one water dish dry. So when I saw that dry water dish, I whacked myself on the left side of my forehead and told myself to prioritize. Chalked it up to exhaustion and went about my day.

he was really high at pmps, but ran my weekly curve knowing this might be high from a bounce. It wasn't as bad as I had imagined it would be. Looks like lowest was between the +3 & +5 then headed up, at +10 was still in 300's. I expect 400's by amps, but it is looking like we are getting closer to his right dose.
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Yes, not surprised with those high numbers. Sometimes you have to increase the dose to break through some insulin resistance that has built up. Easier to increase the dose when you are there to monitor though. By easier, I mean more reassuring that the increased dose has not taken Teal'c too low mid-cycle.

Your signature says you feed the Dr Elsey's dry cat food and the wet.
Rough calculations give wet matter carbs first, dry matter carbs second.

7-8% carbs for the dry chicken flavor
11-13 % carbs for the dry salmon flavor
2-3% for the wet turkey flavor, same for the chicken
0.5-2% for wet ocean whitefish.
4-18% wet rabbit and turkey
3.5%-16% wet duck

These are just taking the Guaranteed Analysis (min-max) values from the food labels and running them through a simple carb calculator. Some people focus on the "as fed" values but you have to remember that cat food varies from batch to batch and there is no way to say a particular bag of dry cat food or a particular can of wet cat food won't have a bit more or less carbs than this. Maybe one batch of ingredients has more fat or protein or something. The carb % are a rough basis to guide you. They are not "set in stone" as so many people tend to think. Pet food manufacturers can change their ingredients list at any time, and the cat food labels can lag 6-12 months behind. Not sure if it's 6 or 12 months.

Some cats are more carb sensitive than others. Feeding the lowest carb option is not always the right choice either. You need to find a balance. If you are feeding the dry salmon flavor of the Dr. Elsey's, you might think about stopping that BUT ONLY IF you are around to monitor BG's for a few days. Change in carb % has been known to drop the BG's down lower, and you don't want <100 or even <150 at mid-cycle since you aren't home much to catch symptoms of Teal'c going too low. ECID Every cat, caregiver, cycle is Different.

For now that is. Hopefully, you'll be able to lower the mid-cycle numbers and let those mid-cycle numbers range lower. Sure would like to see Teal'c back in the blue number range.

Teal'c is peeing less. That's a good sign. If you think of it, note the food for the day on the SS. Might help us see more to the patterns on the SS.

But goodness sake, you need to spend some time with Bobby and keep your relationship strong. Don't get too twisted up in the food and carb %. You need to "have a life".

FDA website on animal food labels https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/pet-food-labels-general
 
This is probably bad, but Teal'c and Shefoo feed from the same dishes. One dish has the dry one has the pate. I tried feeding her up on freezer but she would just jump down to where their dishes have always been. I give them 1/3 cup of dr Elsey's dry chicken flavor and 1/2 can (5.5 oz) of dr Elsey's chicken Pate x2 a day. They usually never finish that amount of food per sitting ,don't know why but they only eat from center of bowl. I feed the same amount every day. I can change back to all Fancy Feast or Friskies pate if you think that might be what's holding him back. I went to dr Elsey's after reading online how good the ingredients were even tho the price was outrageous. Or if you have another suggestion I could try that. I want to bring those numbers down at all cost hate the high preshot numbers. Have entered the feedings on SS.

I have also been wondering if you use an in out insulin how do you ever get lower pmps and amps. Wouldn't those always just go back up or as you get the lowest point lower then the amps and pmps naturally become lower? Just wondering.

I keep forgetting to hit reply before entering text sorry.

I've become so paranoid I've started taking him to bed with me so if something happens I'm right there and he can wake me or I'll hear him. Today he rolled around on the bed came up by me and put his front paws on my arm and layed his head on my hand. It was so nice.

As for the peeing he never misses the litterbox and he isn't back and forth to it several times a day. He went 6& 1/2 hours without using it so during a 12 hour period he might use it twice it's just when he goes it's a 2 minute pee.

Thank you for any and all suggestions. I'd be really lost without your help. Sorry for so long a post just want someone who is trying to help me to have a better picture of what his day to day is.

Deb & Wink said:
In all my decades of life, I've never reached a "state of perfection". Just this past week, I forgot to fill one of my cat's water dishes. She has several, but drinks a ton of water, so she did not run out of liquid refreshment but had licked that one water dish dry. So when I saw that dry water dish, I whacked myself on the left side of my forehead and told myself to prioritize. Chalked it up to exhaustion and went about my day.


Yes, not surprised with those high numbers. Sometimes you have to increase the dose to break through some insulin resistance that has built up. Easier to increase the dose when you are there to monitor though. By easier, I mean more reassuring that the increased dose has not taken Teal'c too low mid-cycle.

Your signature says you feed the Dr Elsey's dry cat food and the wet.
Rough calculations give wet matter carbs first, dry matter carbs second.

7-8% carbs for the dry chicken flavor
11-13 % carbs for the dry salmon flavor
2-3% for the wet turkey flavor, same for the chicken
0.5-2% for wet ocean whitefish.
4-18% wet rabbit and turkey
3.5%-16% wet duck

These are just taking the Guaranteed Analysis (min-max) values from the food labels and running them through a simple carb calculator. Some people focus on the "as fed" values but you have to remember that cat food varies from batch to batch and there is no way to say a particular bag of dry cat food or a particular can of wet cat food won't have a bit more or less carbs than this. Maybe one batch of ingredients has more fat or protein or something. The carb % are a rough basis to guide you. They are not "set in stone" as so many people tend to think. Pet food manufacturers can change their ingredients list at any time, and the cat food labels can lag 6-12 months behind. Not sure if it's 6 or 12 months.

Some cats are more carb sensitive than others. Feeding the lowest carb option is not always the right choice either. You need to find a balance. If you are feeding the dry salmon flavor of the Dr. Elsey's, you might think about stopping that BUT ONLY IF you are around to monitor BG's for a few days. Change in carb % has been known to drop the BG's down lower, and you don't want <100 or even <150 at mid-cycle since you aren't home much to catch symptoms of Teal'c going too low. ECID Every cat, caregiver, cycle is Different.

For now that is. Hopefully, you'll be able to lower the mid-cycle numbers and let those mid-cycle numbers range lower. Sure would like to see Teal'c back in the blue number range.

Teal'c is peeing less. That's a good sign. If you think of it, note the food for the day on the SS. Might help us see more to the patterns on the SS.

But goodness sake, you need to spend some time with Bobby and keep your relationship strong. Don't get too twisted up in the food and carb %. You need to "have a life".

FDA website on animal food labels https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/pet-food-labels-general
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Those treats look ok too. Only see 1 ingredient listed when I check chewy.com for a list of ingredients and the Purina website say only 1 ingredient. Only meat.

Cats feeding from the same dish is fine. No Patricia, the Dr Elseys dry Chicken flavor food should be ok. If you were feeding the Salmon flavor of the dry food, I'd say to cut that one out. But you aren't.

No need to hit reply when you post. I only do that when there are points I want to address separately and sometimes having what you said in front of me helps.
 
Husband has stopped doing preshot says his hands are too big and Teal'c doesn't like it should I have him shoot lower I'll be at work. I'll try to convince him to do preshot. @Deb & Wink
 
Still peeing "lakes" in the litter box when he goes. Not unexpected only going a few times a day and still being unregulated.

Maybe your husband can try using the lancing device to hold the lancet instead of 'free-handing' the lancet. Probably too tiny for him to see well while he is poking if he holds the lancet in his bigger fingers.

With free-handing, you poke at about a 45 degree angle. With the lancing device, it's placed flat against the ear. both methods need something firm behind the ear to press against.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
I have also been wondering if you use an in out insulin how do you ever get lower pmps and amps. Wouldn't those always just go back up or as you get the lowest point lower then the amps and pmps naturally become lower? Just wondering.
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With the in-and-out insulins, you have to get the mid-cycle numbers lower before you see better and lower pre-shot numbers.

I think the 2.5U dose has been held long enough. But I'm scared if Bobby won't test at all with those lower tests, like the +11 you just got, then what happens if Teal'c drops into the greens. Really unlikely, since Teal'c is in the high yellows and pinks. But always a possibility.

We need to get Teal'c back down to the blues again at mid-cycle. I wouldn't be scared unless Teal'c is <100 at mid-cycle.

Will Bobby test at mid-cycle?
 
Looks like with that 220 you got with the +11 for this mornings cycle 2/1/10, that Teal'c is over the bounce. Until the next one.
 
He won't test unless it becomes of utmost importance for him to. He goes to bed at Teal'c's +2 cause he gets up at 3 am CST. He claims he has to have his 8 hours sleep or he can't function (think it's a man thing)

Going to see what my schedule is next week if our boss ever puts it up and will adjust on a day I'm off. Am going to start staying up till Teal'c's +4 in the morning from now on I'm still able to get a good 6 hours sleep and can do fine on that. We are heading in the right direction and don't want to lose the momentum.
I'm so excited to see yellows I might die if I see a blue again :)
 
Give Bobby a slug in the shoulder and tell him it's important to you that he tests.

Don't short yourself on sleep. Flu going around this year is bad and being short on sleep can make you more vulnerable if you are run down. Plus don't you work in a hospital?
 
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