2 weeks into it!

Hi - we have a newly diagnosed sugar fur baby. He was diagnosed 2 weeks ago after blood tests, then a followup urine test. 24 hour stay in the clinic due to him being in diabetic crisis - ketoacidotic? (hope thats spelt right!) Java had lost a lot of weight, but we put that down to the stress of moving house after 8 years. He was eating like a pig (normal for him!) and, 2 days after the blood tests started drinking water like crazy. He is on wet pate type food - Chef, if anyone is reading this from NZ.

Long story short - he's home, on 3 units of caninsulin (not much else avl in NZ!) twice a day, two large feeds morning and night as our understanding vet works with us to stabilize him. He has lost another 15gms since his initial visit, and his number last night was 26.3 on the human meter at the vets. We are going to spend a week practicing the ear sticks you have so much info on about on here (not the vein one the vet recommended!) and then do a home curve.

So, my question is, how does a crisis diagnosis impact the go low start slow approach? Im worried that we started at 2, are now on 3 yet his numbers are still high? (Well the only pre meal test we have done since his last checkup 7 days ago was high)

 

You do want to be cautious if he has had DKA. Hometesting will help you keep him safe. You'll know just how the insulin is working. It could be that he is dropping low early in the cycle and then bouncing back up. Getting some numbers before the shot, 2-3 hours into the cycle and then around the +6 hour should tell you a lot. (We consider tests at home much more accurate than those at the vet. Stress raises blood glucose levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. So your numbers could be quite different than those from the vet.) Cannisulin is not ideal and sometimes needs to be given every 8 hours instead of every 12 hours like the longer lasting insulins, but some cats do all right with it. Monitoring and adjusting seems to be the secret. Testing will tell you how long it lasts in his body.

The other good tool for you to have is ketone strips so you can test his urine for ketones. An increase in ketones would alert you to the possibility of another DKA episode. You can buy the strips that humans use and stick it in his urine stream. If he won't allow this, we have our ways to collect a sample :mrgreen: so ask for suggestions.

If he were mine, I would get right on hometesting and get some data, which we can help you interpret. And get those ketone strips.

Some cats here do two meals a day; others do better on small mini meals. You can experiment with feeding schedules once you see how the insulin is working. There is some possibility to manipulate the drops with Canninsulin with food.

 

Hey! Thanks for the speedy response

Re urine testing - Java is very much a pee outside cat. In fact, I believe he deliberately holds on rather than use a litter box. If we lock him inside and wear ear plugs we could test, which we are more than willing to do. Is collecting urine from a litter tray with non absorbent litter an ok way to collect?

And - is Lantus a human Insulin? If so - i believe it is avail in NZ, but our vet isn't experienced in using it. How hard would it be to change?

 

You have a relatively nearby feline diabetes expert in Dr Rand of the University of Queensland. Her article with Kirsten Roomp is the basis of our Tight Regulation protocol.

Pop over to U of Q's website and the Centre for Companion Animals to get contact info - perhaps your vet might read over her articles there, such as the ones on this page:
http://www.uq.edu.au/vetschool/research-centres

 

Hi Java's mom (or dad) and welcome to the FDMB! (we'd love to know what to call you too!)

In answer to your question, yes, Lantus is a human insulin but has been shown to work VERY well in cats..as a matter of fact it's the only insulin that has a proven protocol that's been shown to get as many as 84% of newly diagnosed cats OTJ (Off The Juice) within the first 6 months.

If your vet is willing to give you the prescription for Lantus, we can teach you everything you need to know about using it...and if he/she's interested, you can teach your vet!

It's a much better choice than what you're using now because it's a longer acting, more gentle insulin

 

Yes, you might have to put him in a room with a clean litter box until he goes. (most cats can't stand not to "christen" a clean box.). Our Oliver would not pee in fron of us, so we put aquarium gravel in a clean box and left him alone with it. He'd go and we could swoop in before it was absorbed.

Lantus is an excellent insulin with a good success rate. Check out the stickies at the top of this page.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

There is info on dosing and caring for the insulin and references to vet studies. Maybe your vet would be willing to learn, and then start using it instead of Canninsulin (think how many other kitties that might help!)

 

So Lantus and home pee testing will be the next move for us then Our vet is supportive, so ill read up on the literature and the links - thank you all for your info!! OTJ is most absolutely worth the time and education!

We just did the first ear prick at home - and without too much fuss as well (we did bribe him with freeze dried liver treats!) and on a human meter it came out at 20 - which using the converty thing is 407. This is at 10 hours after his morning feed and shot.

p.s Im the Mum - Charlene, and Tom is the dad (The holder, vet taker and all round great cat Dad!)

Is there possibly someone who has a nifty spreadsheet that has the conversion built in that they would like to share?

Thanks guys!!

 

Here's the information on How to get a spreadsheet and link in your signature

If you have problems with getting it started, let us know. Some of us can usually help set it up for you if you need us to. Just ask!

The spreadsheet is a very valuable tool, so getting that going is a big step!

 

Once you get your spreadsheet set up or when you look at someone else's signature link, this'll make more sense!

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.

 

Be sure to pick the World version of the spreadsheet. It'll have 2 pages, one with American values, one with the rest of the world. :mrgreen: we'll be able to easily switch back and forth while you enter the data onto your page.