? 24/12: MITTENS - Novolin N, Small Ketones

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Critter Mom, Dec 24, 2016.

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  1. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    People here are just too incredibly nice. I knew there were people out there who care about their cat's as much as we do ours, but I didn't realize there was a group of people who care so much for the well being of a cat they've never met before. Everybody here is so amazing
     
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Heather & Dan

    THIS IS IMPORTANT INFO
    If per chance you should feel any wetness on Mitten's fur suggesting the insulin did NOT go into her, DO NOT give another shot. You never know if some did get in and giving another shot could result in a larger dose than planned which could make Mittens' BG drop too low. We call them furshots and I'm sure most if not all of us have done them at least once. It happens but there is nothing we can do but wait till the next shot is due.
     
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  3. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    We consider ourselves the aunts and uncles of all the kitties who join our family! Simply put, we virtually adopt each and every one! :D
     
  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    When you can spare a moment, (like you can do that at all right now) can you provide a summary of what cat foods you have there for Mittens that she will eat or should I say that you have been feeding her? I want to look at the carb content to see which might be optimal for Mittens right now. :)
     
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  5. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    Just remember if you give 0.25u and you don't see much movement, you don't have to stick with it. Shooting Novolin N, you can vary the dose depending on the PS and what the dose did the previous cycle.

    I would suggest that we don't get too married to a dose right now. Try the 0.25u and see what it does and then decide for the next 8 hour shot. Sometimes N can have a longer duration than 8 hours so that's what we need to be very cognizant of.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
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  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Marje. We knocked the dose down tonight because they are starting the TID dosing, the difficulties getting food into Mittens and precious little data. We'll see what she does this cycle and then decide how to proceed. I presume the dose will have to be raised based on last night's cycle but we have to find a happy medium here right now because Heather and Dan are being stretched to the limit and we don't have a lot of folks around to help because of the holidays.

    Have a Very Merry Christmas! :D
     
  7. Meya14

    Meya14 Well-Known Member

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    Marje is spot on, which is another reason novolin-N is kind of a nice insulin to use with ketones. You can adjust doses much faster than in lantus due to it being an in-and-out insulin. Since the duration can be up to a few hours longer than 8 hours, there is some overlap in the 8 hour cycles. That is a good thing as it helps bring down higher PS numbers. However, you'll need at least 2 cycles (16 hours) to really see what effect the dose will have on the numbers. I would consider holding the dose for 2 cycles then evaluating and so on.
     
  8. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Meya. These poor folks have had to learn so much in the last couple of days that it hurts my head to even think about it. We will plan on holding the dose for 2 cycles and evaluating. I'm expecting the +1.5 reading for the 0.25u dose tonight any time now. Last night Mittens dropped 150 points at this point in the cycle on a dose of 0.5u so it will be interesting to see what the lower dose does tonight.
     
  9. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    Just did a glucose test about 15 minutes ago. +1.5 -306. I think I wrote that right. That means it stayed almost exactly the same, is that normal? I didn't feel any wetness on her fur, but do you think I may have missed? I felt good about it when I did it like I thought I got it in good. I read the tips for giving her the shot and it mentioned fur shots so I've been trying to keep that in mind.
     
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  10. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Heather. I did expect at least a bit of movement. Have you fed her anymore since you gave her the shot and before you took the reading? If so what and how much?

    ETA - you may have given a fur shot and not noticed because it's such a tiny bit of fluid. Then again it could just be the dose is not doing much for her. We'll have to just wait and see what she does from here.
     
  11. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +1.5 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @MrWorfMen's Mom -

    I think Mittens might have taken a little more food at the PMPS meal tonight, Linda. Might be influencing the +1.5 test result.

    .
     
  13. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh DAH. Didn't think to check and compare. Thanks for that useful tidbit. Anxiously waiting to see what we get at +2.5!
     
  14. Woodsywife

    Woodsywife Well-Known Member

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    Is Mittens eating better?
     
  15. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    No. She still won't eat on her own so what she gets is being syringed into her. She's still behaving like she's interested but nauseated. The extra food tonight was probably a product of lots of practice at getting food into her. :(
     
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  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Don't have the full details but Heather let us know that Mittens had a 10ml feed and a 7.5ml feed. I think those are a bit larger than some of the previous feeds. Heather had better success getting the potassium supplement into little Mittens tonight (go Heather! :cool:); keeping fingers and paws crossed it might ease the nausea a little.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  17. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    I fed her 7.5 oz of Fancy Feast classic right after I did the +1.5 glucose test

    We have been giving her Fancy Feast classic (do you need the specific flavors?) mostly with some BeachNut Classics baby food (chicken and broth & turkey and broth) from time to time. We also have a few cans of Fancy Feast gravy lovers that I was advised to have around but she hasn't had any of that.

    Not really, she won't even take any licks from a plate anymore. She hadn't much before but at least she was giving it a try. Now all she does it smell it and walk away. What makes me think she's still somewhat interested is because when I open a can and am mixing it on a plate with a little water she often comes into the kitchen just like she always used to when she heard a can of food open. She doesn't stand there staring and meowing waiting for me to set it down like she used to though, she just comes in there and sits there and then will smell the food and walk away. I don't know if she actually wants some or if it's just a strong habit from before.

    And while she still struggles to get away, tonight I have found it slightly easier to feed her, only very slightly though. It's tough because there's always some that I spill or she'll move at the perfect time for me to squirt my hand and miss her mouth entirely or I'll get it in there and she'll like start licking and some will fly out of her mouth. That's why I've been averaging getting 7.5mL out of my attempts of 10mL

    I just did another glucose test +2.5 -263
     
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  18. Woodsywife

    Woodsywife Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if putting a little food on her toe, if she would lick it off.
     
  19. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reading and the food details. I have a kibble addicted cat & not sure if different flavours are different carb counts offhand so if you could give us a run down of flavours it would be helpful. Mittens has only dropped 40 points which is still pretty slow movement. I'd try to get some more fluids and food into her. Any luck getting a ketone test? Is Mitten peeing at all?

    I am going to go take a quick siesta and will be back for the +4 reading. I'm setting an alarm or two for 2:30 am so post your next reading which I believe should be due around that time ( I may be off by 15 minutes or so!) :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: that I wish I could deliver in person!
     
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  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +2.5 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
     
  21. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    Just tested her again. +4 -228
    I'm going to feed her again now.
     
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  22. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks. Low 200s is good. Eventually we'd like to see numbers in the 100s, but this is good information for now.
     
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  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh glad to see you Dyana. I overslept. Looks like not too active a cycle which is fine. It's all good data. Another gentle drop. So next test will be due about 04:30am or so (just over an hour from now). Great to get more food into Mittens. Is that still you Heather or is that Dan now? Just wondering if you've had any luck checking ketones. Is Mittens peeing at all?
     
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  24. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +4 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Being fed again right after +4.
     
  25. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    It's still Heather for a while, Dan is awake now too though. I fed mittens another 7.5mL of food about an hour ago, he woke up while I was feeding her.

    I think she's only used the liter box once today, we didn't see her use it so we didn't get a chance to test it. I'm worried that she hasn't used the liter box hardly at all today, I tried to give her some water with the syringe earlier. I should probably start doing that as well every time I feed her, I'll start doing that next time.
     
  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +5 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
    No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe..
     
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  27. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok Heather I'm here again. It's very important we get fluids into Mittens so try syringing some or do you want to give her the SubQ fluids from the vet now that Dan is awake and before you go get some rest? I think she needs the SubQ fluids to flush the ketones and make sure she stays hydrated. This would be a good time before the next shot is due around 6:30am. The next couple of hours are going to be busy.

    Roughly how long does it take for you/Dan to syringe feed Mittens the 7.5oz to 10oz 0f food?
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  28. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    I just checked my email and I got this email from DCIN:

    Hi heather,

    I thought I would send you some good news this Christmas Eve! You've been approved for assistance & we will be sending you out a package with some insulin, syringes & a testing kit.

    As soon as I get the tracking number I will let you know.

    Merry Christmas!!!

    ~Jennifer

    That is very good news, what wonderful people, I'm so glad I sent that application in.

    Just checked her glucose again now were at +6 -284
     
  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh Heather....the best Xmas present ever!:D:D:D:D:D I'm so happy for you, Dan and Mittens. I'm going to go make a coffee and will BRB with some more info. Don't feed Mittens again right now. You may need to re-read my post #127 as I added stuff to it (hit the reply too soon:facepalm:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  30. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +6 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
    No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
    +6 - 284
     
  31. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    It takes between 10 and 15 minutes. Yesterday it took me almost a half an hour the first time I tried to do it by myself, but I've figured out a better strategy. I'm still hoping it gets easier because I'd like to start giving her two of the syringes in one sitting to try to get more food into her at a time.

    Yes now that Dan is awake I want to give her the fluids, I know she needs them. I just told Dan that we should do them, so we will very soon.
     
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  32. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok do the SubQ fluids now. This next hour and a half is going to be busy and if the shot has to be moved out to 6:45 or 7:00am that's Ok. It's all new today and may take longer than it will tomorrow. Typing up a schedule of sorts for you, testing my cat ;) and will BRB.
     
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  33. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    The vet told me to give her 100mL at a time when giving fluids, does that seem like the right amount? I just like double checking the advice I get from her just in case... I just know she has drank only a very very small amount of water today
     
  34. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm not that familiar with SubQ amounts but that sounds reasonable to me and she definitely needs lots of fluids. Get yourselves set up and started. I'll see if Meya mentioned this in her instructions & BRB.
     
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  35. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok so we should be aiming to get 300ml of fluids into Mittens each day. Her food slurry will contain some but the amount will depend on what you've added plus the nature of the food. Given only 7.5oz of food at a time and only peeing once, I think the 100ml is probably needed right now. So yes give what the vet told you!
     
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  36. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Let me know when the fluids are done please. We need to allow enough time between the fluids and insulin and I am checking that time frame which I believe was an hour and a half. BRB
     
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  37. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok we need an hour to an hour and a half between SubQ and insulin administration. I think we should only wait an hour this morning so here's the drill and we'll add in times once we know when the SubQ fluids are done so let me know and I'll complete the schedule. The steps will be as follows:

    Complete SubQ fluids.
    Test BG again.
    Feed Mittens
    Give insulin 30 minutes after feeding.
     
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  38. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    I'm trying, I cant get the needle off the line. When I was at the vet they gave her 100mL of this fluid and it was the bag they sold to me so there is an old needle on the end of the line that she told me I have to change before I can give the fluids. I cannot get this thing off, we've been trying for almost half an hour, I don't know what to do I'm getting very frustrated
     
  39. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok Heather. Deep breathes. Syringes fluid into Mittens now and get Dan (or vice versa) to try twisting the needle. If it won't come loose, wet a wash cloth, heat it up in microwave and hold it on where the needle meets the line to warm it up. The expansion may make it easier to remove!
     
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  40. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Morning all--

    Another set of eyes here (I'm so sorry, I absolutely collapsed last night before the call went out for overnighters :().
     
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  41. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good morning and Merry Christmas Nan & Amber! Heather got a wonderful gift of an email from DCIN saying they are approved and insulin (Lantus), syringes and lancet are enroute. :cat::D Glad to have another set of eyes on things here!:)
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Nan & Amber if you pop up to post # 130 there is a summary of tonight so far. Right now those poor folks are struggling with the SUbQ equipment. Can't get the needle changed. It doesn't want to come loose. We need to get some fluids into Mittens as she only peed once yesterday which is indicative of dehydration. Next insulin shot is due at 6:30 but we may need to delay slightly to accomodate the SubQfluids if they can get the needle changed. Until then I've asked them to syringe more fluids and no more food at the moment so we can get a fasting BG before next shot. If any other questions, please let me know. I have been catching 1 hour cat naps and may be a little punchy although I think the expresso is now clicking in! :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::D I am going put a timetable together once we hopefully can get those SubQ fluids into Mittens. :)
    '
     
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  43. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Whoo-hoo!!!!

    Any luck on the fluids?
     
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  44. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think we cross posted Nan! :woot:
     
  45. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Whoops, cross-posted.

    Yep, I agree, fluids are a high priority. Wish I could offer some tips on that, the last time I administered them was 10 years ago when I was doing fostering, and my memory is far too shot to remember any details.
     
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  46. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    And again!

    Anyway, I'm here now to help in whatever way I can-- you are a rockstar for powering through tonight, Linda.
     
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  47. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I've never had to do them but as a retired R.N. I know the equipment and can help them out somewhat given when I was nursing there were no machine to monitor IVs etc. Dating myself there!:)
     
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  48. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    :p:pNo rockstar! Just a crazy cat lady!
     
  49. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    A very groggy Moggie checking in.

    [​IMG]

    Just woke up. Not quite ready to take over yet. Is that OK?

    .
     
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  51. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Any luck with the needle Heather/Dan?
     
  52. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes indeedy. My expresso has me wired at the moment and I will collapse later when you can take the reins! Go have a brew!:D
     
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  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Never done sub-qs so not familiar with equipment ... BUT ... when I can't get the lid off a jar sometimes giving a slight bit of a tap on the side of the lid helps it come unstuck. I wonder whether a similar strategy might work with the needle housing? Would need to be very careful with taps because don't want to damage the connector on the fluid line. Thoughts?

    .
     
  54. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Mogs, the needle attaches with both pressure and then a twist so it could be stuck at either point. I think using heat on it might be the only option other than perhaps a pair of small pliers to get a good grip for the twist. I'm not sure a tap would do much in this case.
     
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  55. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    I happen to have a fluids rig here (got it last spring to keep in reserve for Amber's pancreatitis, but never had to tap into it, hence my lack of recent experience, arrggh). I don't think the part that is "stuck" would respond to a tap-- it's the needle at the very end, and it's small and plastic.

    Dan and Heather: I don't know if the old needle still has its plastic "safety cover" on, but I've found with other similar setups that having that on when you are twisting makes a world of difference (and not just because you are less likely to stick yourself, it gives you a lot more torque somehow). If you don't have the old cover, I'd sacrifice one of the covers to your "fresh" needles to give this a try.
     
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  56. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    Dec 21, 2016
    Ok, we finally got the needle off and got the fluids in her. On the bag the line was just above the 1 and we got it down to just above the 2, so 100mL or extremely close to it. We just got done about 5 minutes ago, that darn needle was super stubborn. So now it's time for her to have her potassium, so should we feed her soon?
     
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  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Blessings of the season, Nan! :bighug:

    Watching the sub-q vid at the moment.

    .
     
  58. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Yeah! . Ok time to test her BG first before food. Please post result. This will be her AMPS.
     
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  59. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    Dec 21, 2016
    Also right before we did the fluids she walked into the bathroom and used the liter box so we snuck in and got a sample. It's hard to tell sometimes but we both agreed it was somewhere between trace and small but we both thought it was slightly closer to matching the color for trace.
     
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  60. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +8 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
    No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
    +6 - 284
    SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
    Doing AMPS BG now to be followed by food with Potassium dose.
     
  61. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Schedule now will be roughly:
    AMPS reading - 6:30am
    Feed 6:35 - 6:50
    Insulin 0.25u Novolin N at 7:15 AM.

    Can someone please check my sequence and timing as I don't trust my math/time skills right now. I think my caffeine fix is wearing off! :eek:
     
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  62. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Love love love the pee/ketone report!:D
     
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  63. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

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    Dec 21, 2016
    Ok we just tested it, it is 298
     
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  64. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +8 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
    No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
    +6 - 284
    SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
    Doing AMPS BG now to be followed by food with Potassium dose. Mittens finally peed and ketones are TRACE! YAHOO!
     
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  65. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok feed her now with the potassium added to the food.

    You guys rock! I am so impressed with not only your perseverance and love for Mittens but how quickly you are learning all these new procedures! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  66. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +8 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
    No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
    +6 - 284
    SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
    Mittens finally peed and ketones are TRACE! YAHOO!
    AMPS BG - 298
    Feeding now with Potassium dose added to food.
     
  67. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    That's great-- going in the right direction, and the fluids are going to help flush out remaining ketones. Fantastic!
     
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  68. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Let me know when feeding is done so we can determine when to give insulin please. :)
     
  69. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Good morning, Dan, Heather and Mittens.

    Sending Christmas blessings to you all. Happy tears going on over here after reading news about your Christmas prezzie from DCIN!! :cat:

    (I ♥ DCIN.) :)

    Good stuff, Team Mittens! :)

    :bighug:

    I suggest putting some plastic wrap over the litter straight away so it will be ready to catch the next urine sample - just in case Mittens does a sneak attack on the litter box when your backs are turned. ;)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  70. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @Critter Mom @Nan & Amber could I ask one of you wonderful ladies to look at the carb content of the food Heather has available for Mittens. I didn't get to it between cat naps and not trusting my math skills tonight and now I really don't trust them. I am not sure if all flavours of FF are the same but I don't think they are so I asked Heather to let us know which flavours she has. She hasn't given that info yet but I know she's been hopping with everything else. Perhaps you can revisit this with her or Dan once we get the shot done. Can you ladies keep watch then? I am fading fast here and would like to have a quick nap before Menace needs my attention.
    This is what Heather has told us so far. :)

     
  71. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Definitely! :D

    One foot. One paw ...

    .
     
  72. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Yep, I'm around and can peruse carb contents. Get some sleep, Linda!!!!!
     
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  73. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @Nan & Amber Thanks Nan. I am going to stay till we get the next insulin shot into Mittens then I will retreat to my pillow and blankie!
     
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  74. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Nan & Amber - would you be able to run with this? I struggle with the US food carb calculations and I'm not au fait with the US food lists.

    Will be good to go here in about 15-20 mins. (Need to grab something quick to eat so I can keep going; had frell all grub yesterday.)

    (((Linda))) - Great job overnight, girl! :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  75. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Heather/Dan, have you finished feeding Mittens yet? Sorry if I am rushing you! Just want to make sure we try to keep a workable schedule here and don't end up with pre-shots occurring in the middle of the night when there will be so few folks available the next few days! :bighug:
     
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  76. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I'm on it!
     
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  77. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Dan&Heather -

    Just sent a PM to you with a link to a really good sub-q instructional video. It'll be easier for you to find again in your Inbox.

    .
     
  78. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Sorry, yes we're done feeding her we got done about roughly about 45 minutes ago
     
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  79. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok time for the next shot of insulin then. Same dose. Same routine testing.
     
  80. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +9 post shot

    Summary data
    Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
    PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
    Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
    +1.5 - 306
    Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
    +2.5 - 263
    +4 - 228
    Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
    No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
    +6 - 284
    SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
    Mittens finally peed and ketones are TRACE! YAHOO!
    AMPS BG - 298
    Feeding now with Potassium dose added to food.
    Insulin given at 7:45 am EST 0.25u Novolin N
     
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  81. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    OK, so the short answer on Fancy Feast is this:

    1) All of the "Classic" pates should be low carb (≤5%, with not enough variation among them to worry about), but there have been recent questions raised about "fishy" flavors, so we're really only still confident about the non-fish (Tender Beef, Chicken, etc.). Fish flavors with an expiration date before September 2018 should also be OK.

    2) All of the "Gravy Lovers" varieties are good high carb options (≥20%, with most of the carbs in the gravy). Again, the differences among flavors is fairly slight (range 20-22%), so I'm not sure it would make a lot of difference once all the other sources of variation come into play-- they should all work pretty equally as a quick hit of carbs.

    Longer answer: we're not really sure what's going on with Fancy Feast these days, because there have been enough anecdotal reports of BG numbers rising on food that has never previously caused problems that we suspect a change in formula, or possibly just changes in ingredient sourcing -> some iffy batches -> cats feel lousy -> BG numbers rise. The company has been stonewalling us on all inquiries, so we're just left with anecdotes, no hard numbers. I think @Sharon14 has been coordinating gathering information for a new US based food list, so she might have updated information (dunno if she'll be logging on during the holidays, though).

    Anecdotally, I can tell you that I've had no problem whatsoever with the "Tender Beef Feast" flavor (the only one Amber will eat a decent amount of :banghead:), BG numbers in remission have been beautiful. I haven't heard reports of any of the other chicken, beef, or turkey-based flavors causing problems, either, and, again, older batches of the fish flavors had no problems, either.

    For the next couple of days, if I were Dan and Heather, I might try to mostly stick to just one or two flavors when doing the syringe feeding rather than absolutely all of the low-carb varieties. With Mittens still feeling lousy, you don't want her developing aversions to multiple foods-- when she's ready to eat, you want to have something available that she won't associate with feeling yucky.
     
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  82. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Updated Schedule

    Potassium is next due at 7pm EST tonight.
    Not sure about frequency of SubQ fluids - @Critter Mom @Nan & Amber - can one of you check on this please and update this timeline
    Insulin given at 7:45 EST so first post shot test will be due at 9:15am EST.
    Insulin 8 hour schedule will now be 7:45 am EST, 3:45 pm EST and 23:45 pm EST. I'd like to see this schedule shifted back a bit if possible just because of the lateness of that 23:45pm shot time and lack of support overnight.

    I am going to go crash. I'll check back in about 15 minutes for any final questions re: my report of our night.
     
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  83. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @Nan & Amber Thanks so much for checking on the foods. Meya suggested a slightly higher carb food would be good for being able to get sufficient insulin into Mittens thus the question about the carb contents. Not sure how much Gravy lovers they have but perhaps you can check with them making sure they keep some aside in case they should need the gravy for a low drop in BG.
    I feed FF to my furkids (Turkey and Giblet Feast) and have had no issues at all here. Not sure what is going on there!
     
  84. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Nan & Amber -

    Great job on the food side of things! :cool:

    If Dan & Heather give you the nutrition info from the baby food would you be able to work out the carbs for that?

    What about adjusting back 15 mins per cycle? Thoughts? (So little data at the moment - worried about larger adjustments till more info available.)

    I'll take over the SITREP activities.

    .
     
  85. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Whew! That seemed like a hectic hour! I feel like we did well though. She got her shot of 0.25 at 7:45, just a few minutes ago. I feel alot better now that she has some fluids and more insulin in her
     
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  86. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I suggest keeping to what they have been feeding for this cycle at least till we see what the 2nd dose of 0.25IU Novolin is doing (per Meya's recommendation last night). We can review later. Agree it's critical to keep a supply of FF gravy lovers in reserve.

    .
     
  87. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I think ye did absolutely brilliantly! :cool:

    And deservedly so. :bighug:

    The food, fluids and insulin will all help with the ketones. Hoping the fluids and potassium will help the nausea side of things, too.

    Sending some very, very gentle Christmas scritches for dear Mittens ... (((Mittens)))

    .
     
  88. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You and Dan are beyond champions for Mittens! I'm SO impressed with how well you've done and am wishing you as much luck as the universe will give ... :bighug:
     
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  89. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I think so. Because it's human food, it should have actual grams of carb, protein, fat, etc. on the label (rather than the max/min nonsense we get with pet food labels), so it's just a matter of figuring out the conversion.
     
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  90. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Heather & Dan, you have been absolutely AMAZING! It was indeed very hectic this last hour or so. This is a Christmas you won't soon forget I'm sure!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: I know I won't forget it anytime soon either!
     
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  91. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm amazed at this team effort! I had a thought: would it be helpful to start a separate thread where all the updated schedules are posted apart from all the other back and forth? It would be much easier for other helpers to find. I'm around until about 3:30 PM EST and will check in. I'm still on a learning curve here but will do what I can.
     
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  92. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Might be time to start a new thread, anyway....
     
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  93. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Well I am retreating and will let you wonderful folks take the reins. I'll check back in later to see how things are going.

    Wishing you all a very MERRY CHRISTMAS! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  94. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Go rest Linda. You've been amazing!! Merry Christmas and all that ...
     
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  95. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm working on that at the moment. :)

    .
     
  96. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    MAJOR EDIT: PLEASE DISREGARD 3x/day, 300ml/day recommendation!!!!! This was based on a mistaken read of previous posts, and is likely a very bad idea.

    Regarding fluids, I think the recommendation was 300ml/day, and separated from insulin/BG tests by at least 1-1.5hrs.

    It seems reasonable to do the 100ml/session that you just did (adjusting based on what else is going on, how much she's drinking, etc.), 3x day, so on the same frequency as the shots but separated in time. Maybe around +6, depending on where her numbers are in that cycle? That would be at 1:45pm, 9:45pm, and (sigh) 5:45am. [edit: ah, but we're also trying to shift the shot times, so maybe 1:30, 9:15, 5?]

    Caveat: I'm not experienced enough to offer this an informed opinion, I'm just throwing it out there. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
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  97. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Very glad you're here, Kris! :bighug:

    Working on new thread and SITREP at the moment. Will post a link when it's ready.


    Mogs
    .
     
  98. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Any chance of a link to the post where you saw that, Nan? (If you click on the # number at the end of the post it'll open up a dialog box with the right link address. Copy to clipboard and paste link into a post on this thread, please.)

    .
     
  99. Dan&Heather

    Dan&Heather Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    This is what we have right now, have mostly been just feeding fancy feast for last day or so.

    Beech Nut Classics
    chicken and chicken broth, we got it because the only ingredients are chicken and chicken broth.

    2.5 oz jar:
    calories: 70
    total fat 4g total carb 0g
    trans fat 0g fiber lessthan 1 g
    sodium 25 mg sugars 0g
    potassium 90mg protein 7g

    Beech Nut Classics, turkey and turkey broth 2.5 oz:
    calories: 60
    total fat 4g total carb 0g
    trans fat 0g fibet 0g
    sodium 40mg sugars 0g
    potassium 90mg protein 6g

    I accidentally bought one jar of Gerber chicken and chicken gravy, we didn't give it to her because we noticed it was gravy not broth and wasn't sure. Not sure if you need the information for that one but here it is anyway just in case:
    2.5 oz jar
    calories 100
    total fat 6g total carb 2g
    trans fat 0g dietary fiber 0g
    sodium 40mg sugars 0g
    potassium 90mg protein 7g
     
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  100. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    In case I don't do this correctly, post #41 on this thread, Mogs:

    24/12: MITTENS - Novolin N, Small Ketones
     
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