26/12 Checkers AMBG 86 +1 92, +3.5 83, +7 97, +11 101, PMPS 94 +1 83

so i skipped last night but checkers has apparently had no effect at all. he's still surfing and his numbers are still way lower then normal. Not sure what to do should i skip again?

one of my cats puked pretty good last night with a stomach full of food, it may have been checkers. I did see him dry heave once yesterday too. might be working on a hairball or maybe these constant lows are getting to him. I certainly didnt expect him to stay so low last night and deffinetly didnt expect him to be to low at AMPS time (86).

 

I'm holding off on the AM shot until either people chime in or his numbers rise. i'm not comfortable shooting at 86 so maybe instead of one skipped cycle 2 skipped cycles are the way to go although its certainly going to drain his depot alot which worries me.

 

Hi there ~ I don't give dosing advice as I am pretty new with Lantus myself. Going to bump this up so maybe peeps will respond. Stalling and retesting is what I'd do if I wasn't sure.

 

You need to be comfy shooting and if you aren't, then I wouldn't. Those with a lot of testing data behind them will usually shoot anything 50 or above.

However, I will be in and out most of the day, so I won't be around to keep an eye out if you do shoot. Normaly if someone advises to shoot we stick around for that cycle to make sure all is well....

If you decide not to shoot I would mark it on your spreadsheet but I would also still get some tests in today if you can. Remember ALL data is valuable, even data on how he is with skipped shots can be valuable.

If I remember correctly you did the wet food change after insulin started, so as others have suggested on previous threads....when that plus insulin comes into play, it can be a very exhausting experience as the cat adjusts to both changes and tbey go slidimg down the dosing scale.

Has he pooped at all or eating any better? That possible obstruction is something I would want to get checked out on x-ray if possible if he is still continuing to have issues there....

 

I see @tiffmaxee is on right now.....tagging to see if she might have some insight to share....

I am not as familiar with your cat as some of the others. ..

 

I would skip and see how he does today (assuming that you can test today). Being high for a day is much better than being too low

Maybe he is beginning his OTJ trial!! Wouldn't that be a nice holiday present!

 

I was wondering about that myself @Anne & Hyde....I know he hasn't worked his way down the dosing scale yet, but if I remember correctly there have been a few cats that have started and successfully completed OTJ trials without going all the way down the dosing scale, right?

 

I'm hesitant to give dosing advice due to the fact that you don't have a lot of data, are new to lantus, and just stopped feeding dry food. In addition if Checkers is the one that vomited and he doesn't want to eat you could run into a dicey situation if he won't eat. How long ago was your last test? Did you feed? If he ate you definitely won't want to shoot.

 

This situation is kind of unique since he's new to lantus and stopped feeding dry. Food changes can take them off insulin if caught early. Checkers also got 3 units which was clearly too much. Add not knowing if he is ill tge mire I think about it the more inclined I would be to skip as well. If you skip I would feed a little regular food and see if he keeps it down.

 

The more I think about it Elise (@tiffmaxee) I am going to say skip as well. I am on my phone right now, but whrn Skooter had his bowel obstruction, which is what might be Checkers situation, I think I ended up skipping two, maybe three doses if I remember correctly....

@Lukewithcats I would still try to get a couple tests in during this cycle as it could help fill in some puzzle pieces....

 

I also would consider a vet visit. If he has an obstruction left untreated it could be dangerous. Not the same but when Max was 5 he had a urinary blockage and I nearly lost him. At the very least, I would try and keep him in an area where you can know for sure what he is or is not doing. Too many possibilities and no way to know this way.

 

i havent fed him yet this morning, i wanted to see how he did without it. I think i can get him to eat but he's also had all night to eat and even if he puked he should have eaten. I guess i will skip again.
I ran an hour over my normal times over the last week and this would put me another hour over so atleast if i skip i should be able to make up those hours i guess.

I want to say he doesnt have a bowel obstruction, with all hes eaten over the last few days his stomach should be prettty large and i dont feel like it is. If he did puke it may have been just random as seems to happen or maybe just spending too much time low. he does seem to preferr higher numbers probably in the blues is where hes comfortable if i had to guess .

 

I'm glad an obstruction is off the table. To make up that time you would have needed to change 15 minutes per cycle or 30 every 24 hours so maybe skipping is the best for that as well. You can then pick whatever time you want to be your shooting time.

They like numbers they are used to until they get used to normal numbers. I do think you have a better than average chance of getting him diet controlled. Most cats get very hungry when too high or too low btw. Have a relaxing day!

 

Hi Luke, you might want to pick a number at which you'll give insulin again, mabye 150 or 175?
That would be easier than wondering if you should shoot or not.
If he doesn't need it, he'll stay under those numbers I suggested.

 

I don't know how he is still staying so low. maybe he is obstructed after all. I'll take him to the vet monday or tuesday when my vet opens again. If he is blocked up atleast I think the insulin may have atleast made it worse so maybe going so long without it will clean him out. So long as hes still eating and what not then i think he will be ok.

If he raises to high blues or above then he will get his dose but so long as he stays green blue I think is a good idea to hold off. i also don't know if he should get 0.75 or 0.5 if i do give him is dose. the reduction in depot will be like a decrease by itself for atleast a day or two.

i think its fair to say my cats fav color is green after this.

 

and green numbers are normal range. My non-diabetic cat runs in the 40's.
I would be inclined to start over at 0.5 if/when he does need insulin. I'm crossing my fingers that he can keep himself low (anti-jinx)

As for the possibility of an obstruction....usually problems - pain, swelling, infection - cause blood sugars to rise.
Did you say he pooped?
I still think it might be a good idea to separate the cats with their own LB's and see who's doing what. Is that possible? You just have 2 cats, right?

 

I'm still not sure he's pooped. they only seem to poop at night so tonight i will lock them up seperate. there has been atleast one poop between the two of them every 24 hours. I just don't know if its all from one cat or both. I gave them a good look and 2 back to back looked like they came from a constipated cat so i figured if the same cat had been doing it it wouldnt be having constipated looking BM's every night. I am like the boy who cried wolf when it comes to impaction, i've taken both my cats to the vet in the past because i thought they were constipated, checkers i've had atleast 3 seperate times i thought he was. I think he has a tendency to swell sometimes or maybe he's always been kinda constipated. It's always worked out ok so i'm crossing my fingers this time i'm wrong like normal. I'm keeping the litter box cleaner then ever now because checkers prior to being diagnosed with diabetes was drinking insane amounts of water and the litter box was just a swamp at all times even using brand name litter. After dealing with that i've been keeping an especially clean litter box which is why i worry he's impacted but for all i know hes just always been an infrequent pooper, fingers crossed and he only needs to hold out until monday/tuesday if he is. since hes still eating and all i think hes probably ok for now.

 

His diet change could be making him poop less, too. There's a lot of extra crap in dry foods that just goes right through as waste, since you've switched to canned there should be more nutrition and less filler, ie less poop.
I think there are quite a few cats on here that poop every 2 days.

I hear you on the litter swamp! Deeper boxes can help or a lot of people here use tote-box type containers with a dip cut into one end. I have to scoop 2x/day because even though I have 4 boxes for 2 cats, Pimp always goes in the same corner of the same box.

 

If you're giving freeze dried treats and you suspect a potential obstruction, you may want to find another type of treat for a bit. My civie with poopy issues can't handle anything freeze dried. It draws water to rehydrate them pulling it from areas where it's needed....

 

Typically an impaction would cause the numbers to rise as there would be pain and discomfort. With that being said, all cats are different in how they react to pain and stressful situations....

Changing Skooter's diet did drastically changed his LB habits. I have ended uo having to use Yesterday's News litter, not ideal, but the only thing that didnt turn into paste and get stuck in his paws....

Checkers has had a lot of changes he is going through in a short amount of time, but that is the "joy" of the sugar dance.

As for what is keeping him so low, it could be as simple as the wet food change and the time on insin has kicked his pancreas into hear and it is working all on its own....

Have you done any other testing tham his AM test? If not I would get one, just to see what he is doing.

Also as a housekeeling note, we use AMPS and PMPS to denote the am and pm PreShot numbers....whem you don't shoot we use AMBG and PMBG to denote am and pm BloodGlucose....if you could update your subject to show that, so others know you did not shoot.

 

yes i was worried it was that and have stopped giving it to him as of a few days ago.

Molly I updated the title, i thought i had taken off the "?" already but i guess i forgot. I've done 2 tests since his skipped dose this morning. I always think of AMPS and PMPS as basicly the times he is supposed to get dosed so to me thats currently 10AM and 10PM but I will be switching back to 9am&pm next time he gets a dose. Thanks for letting me know to use AMBG/PMBG, i had no idea.
I will get another test in a few, thanks for your advice.

I have switched to rubbermaids, atleast one of my cats likes to pee on the sides and with the normal litter boxes sometimes he would go alittle high or manage to get it right inbetween the lower and upper parts and make a mess. I didnt cut a groove out as one of my cats is pretty big and has been known to poop over the edge when pooping up against the lower side. It's alittle harder to get in and out of but with how clean its being kept they don't seem to mind.

 

He is looking really good @Lukewithcats

@Chris & China @Marje and Gracie @Wendy&Neko ---- at what point could this change from skipped doses to a possible OTJ trial or am I getting too excited too early? Lol

 

Can you get a +11 and post? That'll give us time and an idea of where he's going before the PM shot. And how long from now would that be - so we can keep an eye open for it.

Are you feeding Checkers several small meals during the day? That can help a healing pancreas, so you don't overwhelm it with a lot of food at once.

 

Checkers has always been allowed to free feed so he still does that. I put down food twice a day but there is always some out just they prefer it fresh so its like 2 big meals and small ones at their leisure. I just throw away whatever is leftover and put new food down at each feeding.

I will certainly post a +11. that will be in 2 hours with the possibility of waiting an hour ontop of that if necessary. i don't think he's been eating much today, not sure if its a bowel issue or just not hungry, i did give him a good amount of fancy feast yesterday and he seems to love it, he could be on a hunger strike to try to get fancy feast for all meals lol I wouldn't put it past him, he tends to be too smart for his own good.

 

ok its just under 1 hour until his PMBG, i just tested him and he's at 101. looks like hes been fairly stable all day. So wondering if we should skip for the third time, go 0.75U or 0.5U?

 

Do you think you could measure a .25 unit dose? I think he's done with .75u and .5u might be a really busy night. But it depends how you feel about monitoring tonight. You could also skip tonight and resume tomorrow morning if he's in the blues.

 

i could try a quarter dose but it wont be that accurate as i dont have any tools so i have to eye it. i could pick through the syringes and make sure i get one with a good line in the right spot.

i will do another test in a few and see where he is at, if he has gone down then maybe i'll skip again but if hes still blue then maybe a small dose is a good idea. i'll be retesting in just a few

 

Did his PMBG 20 mins ago and its down to the greens again, nearly where he started this morning infact. I guess it really comes down to is there a chance to GOTJ? If not then i will give him a quarter U to keep him stable maybe.

 

Checkers is really doing things his own way, isn't he??

I have to really wonder if by getting rid of the dry and giving just the little bit of support you've already given that it might be all he needed!!

I think you could go ahead and skip again tonight....IF his numbers start to trend up, then we'd want to start him back on .25 or .5 and see how he does, but as long as he's in normal numbers, I think I'd just see how he does for now

IF you haven't fed him yet, you could also re-test in about 30 minutes...see if he comes up or not and then decide on if you want to try .25 or just skip tonight

 

damn it lol i just gave him a quarter U as per wendys post. I have no calipers though so it could be alitte less or more. He just ate a fair bit so i figured i might as well. Thanks for the advice though. You nearly made it lol

 

i'm glad hes staying in the greens nearly all the time now i just wish he would get alittle happier. I hope he adjusts soon, its sad to put in this much work and get his BG in a good place but still he seems down.

 

No harm done!! There's no real "right or wrong" answer when the cat is making up their own rules like Checkers is!!

Generally speaking, we don't reduce them from .75 to zero....we keep them on insulin as long as possible, so their pancreas has as much "healing time" as we can give it

The way it's "supposed" to work is going from .75 to .5 to .25 to .1...and THEN off.....but Checkers doesn't seem to really be into reading the rules much...LOL

 

that sounds like him. He's always liked to think of himself as a tough guy although hes absolutely not. When i adopted him people at my job had reported seeing 2 abandoned kittens in the area so i put out word i would take them, they survived about a week somehow, someone grabbed them for me then and i got a call to come into work to collect my 2 kittens. The first night home checkers sibling passed away while sleeping in the tub with checkers and since then he's been very clingy and I'm pretty sure he thinks hes a small fluffy human. I raise my cats to be very vocal, i don't call them by names instead i try to mimic their meows, i've found this leads to happy cats as they can express themselves easily. Checkers has several different meows that mean different things, a frustrated meow he does after huffing, a exicted meow for when i come home from work or he just wakes up and sees me. He's an oddball but i love him an insane amount, he was very close to my wife while she battled cancer which is one of the reasons i will do whatever it takes to keep him with me as long as I can.

As for the 0.1U dose, i have no idea how I would measure that, is there any decent way, i would think even with calipers it would be incredibly hard.

 

I did his +1 and he had come down to 83. Would that be from the lantus or would it not have had enough time to work and he came down by himself? if he came down by himself then he's pretty much stable with just his depot.

 

There is a picture of a .1u but I'm not sure it will be needed.

 

Usually we'd expect to see a food spike at +1 so he may have another exciting night in store for you!

I'm sure you're planning on getting another test in an hour

One way we suggest getting that tiny dose is to push the plunger in HARD and hold it...then put the syringe into the insulin and just "let go" of the plunger...the vacuum sucks in just a drop or two

 

When Skooter was getting close to the 0.10 dose I practiced this technique several times, and then slowly plunged it out so I would know what it looked like.