3/26 Doodles AMPS 360 +1 50710 416 (.25R) PMPS 338 +1 380 +2 376 +5 418

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Doodles & Karen

Doodles & Karen

Member Since 2015
Doodles 3/25 Vet Thanks again everyone for ALL the support. This is the only place that understands :)

So Mr. Sassy Doodles wouldn't eat his Enalapril last night and I barely tricked him eating it this morning. Hopefully it's just a phase :banghead: He's also eaten more last night and this morning than I've seen him eat in weeks. He's laughing at me by winning the battle and getting EVO:rolleyes: I have to look again but pretty sure it's low sodium too. He's also been more talkative and moving around. Makes me wonder if the boy has been starving himself:confused: Have to confess that I'm kind of mad at him about the foodo_O He'll continue to get wet food 4 times a day but like this morning he takes a few licks/ bites and walks away:mad:

We shot .25 R this morning so we'll see what happens this morning. It's also the 6th cycle of the increase to 5u. He's no longer a candidate for OTJ so the goal is to find the dose that will get him regulated in blues.

Sending lots of vines and prayers to all the kitties and beans in need:bighug:
 
Morning Karen!
Happy to hear that Doodles has been eating. They do know how to manipulate us! I had a kitty once that got addicted to milk and she absolutely refused to eat her food! I got her to eat by soaking the food (kibble, she was a kidney cat) in milk.
Would Doodles eat a pill pocket? Not sure what their carbs or sodium is though.
Maybe let Doodles have the EVO for a few days and then very slowly reduce the EVO and increase the wet food?
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Would Doodles eat a pill pocket? Not sure what their carbs or sodium is though.
Maybe let Doodles have the EVO for a few days and then very slowly reduce the EVO and increase the wet food?
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Haven't ever tried a pill pocket but that might be next. I was super stressed about that last night and this morning the little beast. The thing that kills me about his kibble is that he drops it in the water, then eats it. My only thought was to go back to a 12/12 feeding schedule (maybe he'll chow the wet that way) but honestly that was rough on him. At this point it's also about his QOL.
 
Yes, you read that +2 correctly. This is a nightmare and also not sure it was .25R or closer to .1 as it didn't seem like the plunger really moved.
 
yeah I find that "if he's hungry he'll eat it" doesn't work so well with cats lol. They will let themselves go hungry before eating something they don't want to eat.
I would give him a few days; he needs to eat. Then maybe try one additional meal of wet and one less meal of dry. Who knows, maybe Doodles will switch himself over to wet again like he did last time! He just likes to mess with your mind! :rolleyes:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Yes, you read that +2 correctly. This is a nightmare and also not sure it was .25R or closer to .1 as it didn't seem like the plunger really moved.
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Oh Doodles what are you doing little guy?
The fine dosing is so difficult! But I found that once I bought a magnifying glass I believe the doses are more consistent.
 
Doodles, it's spring. We need to see pretty colors like blue and green, even yellow will do for now. Karen, I wish I could wave a magic wand!

Tiffany was getting her pepcid in pill pockets until she tasted it once. Never touched another one, even without pills iso if you try them don't use them for anything bitter.:bighug:
 
I'm guessing that +1 could be the EVO...but that's OK - he's eating and that's what counts! You will eventually get the meds, insulin, and food balanced - just like everything else in FD, it will just take a little bit of time. I don't think you need to do a 12/12 feeding schedule - I think that is too hard on FD kitties in general.

My civvie Zen had a similar experience with pill pockets, too....loved 'em till he bit into the pill, and that was that. Trix used to love them, too, until she got really sick with p-titis and then after that she wouldn't touch them either. But my GA civvie Mario never had a problem with pill pockets even when he did bite into the pill. ECID with everything, including pill pockets.

How sweet on the baby bunny - they're so cute when they are itty bitty!!
 
I hope everything comes together for Doodles eventually. Sometimes it so hard to figure it all out. I guess that's why they call it a dance.
 
Karen, have you tried crumbling a little of the Evo over his wet food? Some kitties are smart enough to eat the dry off the top, and some fall for it and eat both.

If you want to try pill pockets, get the dog ones that are duck flavored. They are the lowest in carbs. They are huge, so break off a piece just big enough to cover the pill. I always put all pills in gelcaps, so they are less likely to taste the pill.

I agree that he HAS to eat, so you have to feed him what he will eat, but don't give up trying to find better options, too. Sending extra strength appy vines! :bighug:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
@Jill & Alex (GA) / @Marje and Gracie This darn food is a problem. I'll do a +7 to see where he is and a +10. Do you think it's appropriate to try the .5R @ +10 today?
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I'm leery of shooting more than 0.25u R today at AM +10... mostly because we know 0.25u R @ AM +10 has provided a nice little drop, cats usually eat less at night than they do during the day (at least mine do), and the R is being shot prior to the next lasix dose.

However, if his BG is trending upwards and is greater than 400 at AM +10 and you're prepared to monitor carefully for as long as it takes tonight, I'd go ahead with 0.5u R @ AM +10... knowing he *could* drop more than 100 points, but willing to take the chance.

Going forward...
No doubt food enters into the equation, but my personal feeling is it's the lasix that's more of a problem than the food. Given the timing of the lasix, I think shooting R at AMPS and PMPS might prove to be ineffective unless one is shooting higher doses of R. However, shooting higher doses of R might increase the risk of dropping him more than the desired 50-100 points which could easily set him up for a bounce. At the moment this is an unknown factor. We need more R data on the reduced lasix dose to draw conclusions.

In order for the R to be effective, I strongly suspect you'll have to get out in front of the lasix by shooting on the +10s. This is easy for the AM +10s, but a real PITA for the PM+10s.

If Doodles were mine, I would try shooting 0.25u R on the +10s. If that doesn't help, the next logical step is to increase the R dose.


And about the food...
I agree with your husband. I'd let Doodles eat whatever and whenever he wants... up to and including the 2 hours prior to shot time. Now, if he begins to put on too much weight there might be reason to re-evaluate, but in the meantime we want him happy and well nourished. :)

Food for thought.
Maybe others will offer different ideas...
 
Hey Karen, I just got caught up with your thread and I am so glad that Doodles is eating better than he has been. Letting him eat what he wants and adjusting the insulin is what I would do too. I am sure you have tried all the tricks to stimulate his appy, tuna juice, chicken broth, parmesan cheese, etc. You could even grind up some of the YA in a blender, food processor or I used my Magic Bullet and sprinkle it on top. That is how I got my guys off the dry food. Hope that helps. And hope he comes down soon.

How sweet about the baby bunny. Just in time for Easter. ;)
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
but a real PITA for the PM+10s.
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I've had that on my mind....ugh. He woke me up at +10 eating anyway so I can give it a shot. (no pun intended) Just have to figure out when I can get more than a few hours of sleep at a time. I'm thinking about starting to move his shot time from 5:15am to 6:15am and know it needs to be done in 15 min increments.

He did drop on his own without R last night from +5 to AMPS by 70 points. I'll stick with the .25R for now. It's the 6th cycle on this dose, should I hold it for 10 cycles before increasing Lantus? It's in between TR & SLGS.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I am sure you have tried all the tricks to stimulate his appy, tuna juice, chicken broth, parmesan cheese, etc. You could even grind up some of the YA in a blender, food processor or I used my Magic Bullet and sprinkle it on top. That is how I got my guys off the dry food
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Thanks Bobbie. I have literally tried every trick ever documented in the last year relentlessly. It's almost been more exhausting than the FD quite frankly. A trick will work for a little while and then he's done so on to the next trick. At first DX in May 2015 on Vetsulin I picked up the dry and was feeding 12/12 1 can FF at each meal determined to force him into eating the wet. Needless to say after $5000 in vet bills because he was near death I just can't go that route again. He still gets it and one day maybe he'll change his mind again. We'll keep trying!

EVO is low in sodium and has extra potassium and magnesium which gets depleted from these meds. Even in those nasty 500's this morning he was more talkative and had more movement than he has in a while. Sorry for the long response but I'm also trying to justify it for my own sanity. I was pretty PO'd last night about the whole thing.
 
It's almost like you have to be Felix the Cat with your bag of tricks, rotating them for the Doodles. And crazy great that he is feeling good while it these numbers. Bubba actually was more active when he was higher. Go figure.......:banghead:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Just have to figure out when I can get more than a few hours of sleep at a time.
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Exactly. If it's not do-able we'll have to figure out something else.
Doodles & Karen said:
I'm thinking about starting to move his shot time from 5:15am to 6:15am and know it needs to be done in 15 min increments.
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With his numbers this high, you could probably get away with moving it all at once (one 13 hour cycle) or by a half hour on two separate days (two 12.5 hour cycles).
Doodles & Karen said:
It's the 6th cycle on this dose, should I hold it for 10 cycles before increasing Lantus? It's in between TR & SLGS.
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To answer your question... let's see how things go with consistent R and Lantus dosing. When one makes too many changes at once it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

I have to preface the next comments with saying my remarks are specific to Karen and Doodles and their set of circumstances. They're not intended for anyone else.

That said... I'll be very candid:

Karen, at this time, I'm less concerned about protocols guidelines than I am about getting Doodles out of these high numbers in the safest manner possible... especially when he has other issues which are probably putting stress on his body. I'm not tied to holding doses for a set number of cycles at this time. My thinking lies along the lines of accumulating enough data, relying on your observations, and my/our experience to give us clues as to how and when to proceed. That doesn't mean I'm ditching protocol guidelines. I am extremely aware of the guidelines and perhaps more importantly, the reasons for them, but I also don't want those guidelines to become ties that bind. Doodles has a whole lot going on. IMHO, the time to return to following set guidelines is once he's stabilized a little lower... ridding those blacks and reds from his spreadsheet. That's what I would do if he were mine.

If you prefer to follow protocol guidelines to the letter or do things differently, we most certainly can. As always, it's your decision. You're the captain of this ship...


 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
or by a half hour on two separate days (two 12.5 hour cycles).
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So I move it out 30 minutes at PMPS today and tomorrow @ PMPS. Think that will work a bit better.

Jill & Alex (GA) said:
To answer your question... let's see how things go with consistent R and Lantus dosing. When one makes too many changes at once it's hard to see the forest for the trees.
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So many changes going on, I agree.

Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Doodles has a whole lot going on. IMHO, the time to return to following set guidelines is once he's stabilized a little lower... ridding those blacks and reds from his spreadsheet.
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Pretty much where I am on this too. Thanks Jill.

BTW, I went in to check him for +7 and usually these days I have to pull him out from under the bed. Today he just came trotting out after one call from the hallway.:confused:
 
Speaking of conundrum....you guys are in one. Maybe you should change his name to Puzzles. I can't imagine what you are having to do on a daily basis. Don't forget to take care of yourself in this whole process.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
On my ride to pick up lunch this popped in my head. What if I moved his lasik shot to ps+2 starting tomorrow morning? Or would that be too much and another change??
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In some ways it'll be like starting over when it comes to figuring this out, but I think we're early enough into this for that not to matter much. After all, we're only a few days into collecting R data. You have enough stress and pressure. If we can lighten the load by changing the time you give lasix, I say go for it!
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
If we can lighten the load by changing the time you give lasix
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My thought process on this is....maybe it'll give Lantus a chance to hold him down a bit too. This would mean giving Lantus & R at PS if needed. Guess we would have to run a cycle or 2 without the R to see what happens. My brain hurts :)
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Guess we would have to run a cycle or 2 without the R to see what happens.
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Yes, definitely. We'd have to establish a base line.

It's up to you. Unless you come up with something totally off the wall, we'll get things figured out. We'll have to remain flexible anyway because once we start seeing some good movement we'll have to take our lead from Doodles and go with the flow.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Yes, definitely. We'd have to establish a base line.

It's up to you. Unless you come up with something totally off the wall, we'll get things figured out. We'll have to remain flexible anyway because once we start seeing some good movement we'll have to take our lead from Doodles and go with the flow.
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It would be easier than trying to change his PS time...he doesn't like change. AND, if we decided R is still needed, I can give that at PS time and not get up at 3:00am. Since it's Easter tomorrow and mom is insisting we go for dinner I'll be gone from AM +8 until PMPS. It would be a good time for a baseline day.
 
Adding my voice to all those impressed by how well you are handling all these curves Karen. :bighug::bighug: I know too well how seeing those blacks affects your mood. Whoever chose that colour chose well. :(

Both my kitties chow down the duck and pea pill pockets, in spite of Zantac or metronazodile inside. Bonus is it's a unique protein. Another unique protein I have used with success is the Nature's Variety freeze dried Mixers, which are rabbit. I soak them to rehydrate them and they are a perfect size for some of the meds I give. I recently discovered I have to rehydrate them on a counter that the civie cannot reach or they disappear. :rolleyes: They were giving away sample packs at the local pet food store.
 
Thanks @Wendy&Neko he wouldn't eat them voluntarily again so mommy had to do the force open mouth, insert and he swallowed without choking. UGH :arghh::arghh:

ETA - now an unexpected visitor and he's under the bed before finishing dinner.
 
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Just adding a voice of encouragement. You are certainly navigating a complex passage!! Hang in there, Karen. Let him eat what he wants to eat!

Sounds like a pretty good day overall for Doodles.

Hugs, scritches,

Ella & Rusty
 
wwwwwww....
I don't even know what to say except I think I would be at the shooting range right about now relieving some stress!

You are solid as a rock!! :bighug::bighug:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
He ate a little more @ +1 and +2 is looking good. Going to give him a much needed poke break for a few hours.
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Looks good! Pinks look so much better than reds and blacks!
I doubt I'll be able to check in tomorrow (have a few kids and grandkids here) so have a Happy Easter.
Enjoy dinner with Mom!
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
have a Happy Easter
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You too Jill, enjoy your family and have a good Easter. Thank you very much for all your help this week. I do realize and appreciate the time that everyone dedicates on this board and there is no way to pay it back.

We're taking a break from R in the morning and I'm moving his Lasik shot out to +2 in hope that Lantus will help keep him down. I'll have his labs back sometime Monday too so we'll get back to this R business soon.

He seems to be doing pretty good....coming out on his own exploring, purring etc. He lives in his water bowl with the diuretic but that's a good thing.
 
Yeah a pink! Catching up while I wait to retest Bubba. Have a Happy Easter Karen in case I don't get to tell you tomorrow. It'll be a busy day here.
 
Just wanting you to know I am thinking of Doodles every day:) Trouble, Chela and I are sending lots of vines- and glad he is seems to be doing good- he is such a good boy :)
 
Very late catching up with Doodles, been busy here with a houseful of friends, you are doing a great job with him Karen, so much going on with him.
Sending Hugs and vines for you and your sweet boy :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Happy Easter, the easter egg hunt will commence shortly here when my friends kids get up.:)
 
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