3/28 Doodles AMPS 321 (PFS L, .25R)+6 424 ( R) PMPS 323 (R) +2 363 +3 381 +5 420

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Doodles & Karen

Doodles & Karen

Member Since 2015
Doodles 3/28 Doodles got a partial FS of lantus and .25u R this morning. In the middle of pressing the plunger in with his lantus shot he lurched and took off with the need stuck in his skin...just want to cry. He did get .25u R so we'll see how it goes. Maybe we can give him another shot of R later this afternoon depending on where he is. I still have to open his mouth and insert the Enalapril as he literally sticks his nose in the air with the compounded treats now. Haven't given him any of the metoclopramide since he stopped eating them and honestly not sure it made a difference anyway.

Expecting a call on his BW from last week today.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Doodles 3/28 Doodles got a partial FS of lantus and .25u R this morning. In the middle of pressing the plunger in with his lantus shot he lurched and took off with the need stuck in his skin...just want to cry. He did get .25u R so we'll see how it goes. Maybe we can give him another shot of R later this afternoon depending on where he is. I still have to open his mouth and insert the Enalapril as he literally sticks his nose in the air with the compounded treats now. Haven't given him any of the metoclopramide since he stopped eating them and honestly not sure it made a difference anyway.

Expecting a call on his BW from last week today.
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So sorry Karen.
 
:bighug::bighug::bighug: How's the appetite? I know metoclopramide doesn't help with nausea if you think that is part of the problem. Sorry about the partial fur shot. It happens to all of us.
 
You definitely are having a morning like mine Karen! I'm sorry! Stomper still hates getting his insulin shot so pulls away like that pretty often. It's so frustrating :banghead:
 
IMHO, I would give R now to keep him from going any higher since he got a partial FS with lantus. While we would normally not want the Nasir's to overlap, he has been so flat that I don't think it would matter right now.
 
Sorry about the fur shot this morning! I always had fear of that happening so this time around I have my DH holding Boomer in place while I shoot.
 
I too think you'd be fine with some mid cycle R, once you've confirmed he's not coming down from the L. It's hard to say how much of a fur shot he got.

Paws crossed he stays flat.:bighug: Eat yer meds Doodles.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
IMHO, I would give R now to keep him from going any higher since he got a partial FS with lantus
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+4 is in 45 min. If he's sky high which is likely should I give .5 units?

Wendy&Neko said:
mid cycle R, once you've confirmed he's not coming down from the L
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Do I wait until +6 and how much do I give

Sorry this question is confusing. If he's over 400 depending on what hour we think I should shoot my thought is to give .5u R.
 
Oh Karen, I am so sorry about his Lantus shot this AM. :banghead: The R really gives some flexibility that way. I gave extra R when I did a fur shot once.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Oh Karen, I am so sorry about his Lantus shot this AM. :banghead: The R really gives some flexibility that way. I gave extra R when I did a fur shot once.
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A FS on a shave cat:mad: For some reason I was a little shaky this morning and wonder if he fed off that. Well, I'll see what he is @ +6 and probably give .25 of R.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Did not give R @ +4, will check @ +6 and if still over 400 will give .25. Make sense?
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I think shooting 0.25u R at +6 (if necessary) is a good idea since we have yet to get a solid handle on the onset, nadir, and duration of R with Doodles. The typical duration of R for most kitties is around 4 hours, but we can't assume it's the same for all kitties. There are some like Joan's Maddie who got around 6 hours duration from R.

JMO, I think we're getting very, very close to needing to know the onset, nadir, and duration of R in order to make decisions about safely shooting R mid-cycle. We don't want to accidentally overlap the action of the bolus shots.


Just my thoughts...




 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
JMO, I think we're getting very, very close to needing to know the onset, nadir, and duration of R in order to make decisions about safely shooting R mid-cycle. We don't want to accidentally overlap the action of the bolus shots.
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We were getting real close and then this morning happened. Super bad timing and will go ahead with the .25 @ +6. Thanks Jill.
 
{{{Karen}}} How frustrating. It'll be okay, though. You just gotta keep reminding yourself that you are dealing with a cat here, and they thrive on making us tear our hair out!! :confused::rolleyes:
 
Even though he dropped a little from +4 to +6 I still gave him .25 R. There is no question about the partial FS this morning of Lantus so hopefully this will help for next cycle. As long as he's over 300 at PMPS I still plan to shoot R again.
 
Not that there's ever a good time for a furshot, but it seems like they always happen at the worst possible time. Sorry that you had such a crappy start of the week. :bighug:

Anything from you vet yet?? Fingers and paws crossed that his BW looks good!
 
Will get a +10. He's still super safe. He naturally has been bringing himself down in the second half of the cycle by about 100 pts.
 
If he's over 300 at PMPS I intend to shoot .25R as well. Even with the partial FS of Lantus this morning is it time for a dosecrease to 5.5 units tomorrow? Although R is effective I really don't like using it. If we can get to a Lantus dose that gets him close to a range of staying in the low 200's high 100's I'll be happy.

Vet tech called his kidneys are handling the meds so no changes for 2-3 months. They did indicate the IAA was a little high (having them email results) but are contributing it to his heart issues more than actual IAA.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
If he's over 300 at PMPS I intend to shoot .25R as well. Even with the partial FS of Lantus this morning is it time for a dosecrease to 5.5 units tomorrow? Although R is effective I really don't like using it. If we can get to a Lantus dose that gets him close to a range of staying in the low 200's high 100's I'll be happy.

Vet tech called his kidneys are handling the meds so no changes for 2-3 months. They did indicate the IAA was a little high (having them email results) but are contributing it to his heart issues more than actual IAA.
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Just wondering what you don't like about the R?
 
Doodles & Karen said:
They did indicate the IAA was a little high (having them email results) but are contributing it to his heart issues more than actual IAA.
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Now I'm really curious about that IAA number. I've never heard of this before. The antibodies are a reaction to the foreign material (insulin) being injected.

As for dose, I think I would increase. I'd much rather have a good dose of Lantus as a base and use R as needed. R is a great tool, but no replacement for the proper L dose.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Now I'm really curious about that IAA number. I've never heard of this before. The antibodies are a reaction to the foreign material (insulin) being injected.
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Me too. They are very vague both on Friday and today on the phone. I'll share the results when they email them.

Should I go ahead and increase tonight at PMPS?
 
If you wanted to wait until morning to increase and use R instead tonight, that would work too. Sometimes (not always) kitties have a stronger cycle the one after a fur shot. Combining that with an increase might be a lot tonight.

I'm mostly curious about IAA because we know so little about it. There haven't been many papers written on it.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you wanted to wait until morning to increase and use R instead tonight
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Well I went ahead and increased also gave .25R but it felt like very little movement in the plunger so probably closer to .1. I'm here to monitor. I'll share the IAA as soon as it comes through!
 
I feel dumb asking this but I don't know what IAA is... I have heard the term but no idea what is means or does .....
It seems crazy with all the technology we have that there isn' more we can do to help our loved ones....
Thinking of you and the Doodles:bighug::bighug:
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
I feel dumb asking this but I don't know what IAA is... I have heard the term but no idea what is means or does .....
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@jayla-n-Drevon Not dumb, just lucky you haven't had to learn it. IAA or Insulin Auto Antibodies is a high dose condition where kitty's immune system sends out antibodies against injected insulin that it thinks is a foreign substance. Think of the way our bodies fight cold or flu viruses. The antibodies attach themselves to the injected insulin and make it so the insulin cannot be used and becomes a type of insulin resistance. Higher and higher doses of insulin are needed to overcome the resistance. You'll see IAA and acromegaly together more often than just IAA by itself.

Keep it pink Doodles, or maybe take it down a floor.
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
I feel dumb asking this but I don't know what IAA is... I have heard the term but no idea what is means or does .....
It seems crazy with all the technology we have that there isn' more we can do to help our loved ones....
Thinking of you and the Doodles:bighug::bighug:
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It's Insulin Auto Antibodies. The body actually sees injected insulin as a foreign substance and attempts to destroy it as it would a virus so The insulin is ineffective. You are absolutely NOT dumb for asking about it!

Karen...I'm sorry I had to post and not get back to you. I planned to and then had to leave suddenly because my mom needed me. I hope you see some movement tonight.

I'm like Wendy....I don't know how IAA could be from the heart condition.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Karen...I'm sorry I had to post and not get back to you. I planned to and then had to leave suddenly because my mom needed me
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No worries! Sorry to tag you while visiting your family.

Marje and Gracie said:
I don't know how IAA could be from the heart condition
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They are just not answering my question. When I asked if it was above 20% they just said "It's a little high but Dr. B believes it from the heart condition". Why can't they just answer my question? Very frustrating. Guess we'll find out what "a little high" means sometime tomorrow.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
No worries! Sorry to tag you while visiting your family.


They are just not answering my question. When I asked if it was above 20% they just said "It's a little high but Dr. B believes it from the heart condition". Why can't they just answer my question? Very frustrating. Guess we'll find out what "a little high" means sometime tomorrow.
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Please don't apologize. I am usually around in the morning a bit and late at night but headed home tomorrow so probably won't be around at all.

I really wonder how many vets actually even deal with IAA. I would stay on them about releasing the results to you. You paid for it...you should get the results in your hand. Then you can post here for help.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
@jayla-n-Drevon Not dumb, just lucky you haven't had to learn it. IAA or Insulin Auto Antibodies is a high dose condition where kitty's immune system sends out antibodies against injected insulin that it thinks is a foreign substance. Think of the way our bodies fight cold or flu viruses. The antibodies attach themselves to the injected insulin and make it so the insulin cannot be used and becomes a type of insulin resistance. Higher and higher doses of insulin are needed to overcome the resistance. You'll see IAA and acromegaly together more often than just IAA by itself.

Keep it pink Doodles, or maybe take it down a floor.
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So is it considered a autoimmune disease? How common is this? (or do they know?)
Would insulin derived from bovine be more acceptable to a feline? Sorry I like to know why why why....
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
So is it considered a autoimmune disease? How common is this? (or do they know?)
Would insulin derived from bovine be more acceptable to a feline? Sorry I like to know why why why....
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I've read about it in length in my Kirks Veterinary Handbook but couldn't accurately explain it in detail. It does have to do with their "b" cells.

This is a great site and Sandy and Black Kitty is mentioned which IMO was a miracle to overcome. http://www.felineoutreach.org/education/Acromegaly.html Just scroll down a bit until you see IAA section.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
This is a great site and Sandy and Black Kitty is mentioned which IMO was a miracle to overcome. http://www.felineoutreach.org/education/Acromegaly.html Just scroll down a bit until you see IAA section.
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That link is just a copy of material on FDMB. See: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-other-high-dose-conditions-what-we-know.375/

jayla-n-Drevon said:
So is it considered a autoimmune disease? How common is this? (or do they know?)
Would insulin derived from bovine be more acceptable to a feline? Sorry I like to know why why why....
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Very little research has been done on IAA and many vets dismiss it as unimportant. I've seen references to two papers on IAA in cats, one said it's common, the other said it's uncommon.
 
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