4/9 Willows amps 219bg just found out our previous vet caused this disease

[Willow]

Good morning

Willow was up around 3 or 4am eating, clearly her amps is affected by her eating. I'll take a yellow over a pink start anytime.
Let's see some green today!

Well is everyone ready for a bombshell?
Friday I took Willow to another vet who is a cat only clinic. I had all of her records sent over to the new vet.
Our previous vet is more like an ER with hundreds of pets daily going in and out of there. The vets never spends too much time with you because their lobby is always packed and they always have new vets coming and going.

The new vet asked me to explain everything that has gone on from the day we got Willow about a year and half ago.
The vet honed in on Willows surgery when we got her fixed, she asked did Willow have debities before? Any history of it? how long afterwards until she was diagnosed with having diabetes? One to two months, why?
She said the drug they used on her is known to damage or kill a cats pancreas if used on older felines. It's right in the warning label. She says they most likely caused her to have this.

Wait a minute, are you sure? She replied yeah, if that drug is used on older cats their is a high chance it will damage their pancreas. So yes I'm sure.
Ever watched a cartoon where steam blows out the ears and then their head blows up? That was me right then.
How upset would you be?
My wife said to me we should sue the old vet. People always say this when they have never been in real litigation. I had to explain to my wife that the last time I took on a major lawsuit it cost me $250k and took two years to get them into court. My business took a nosedive during them two years and at the end of the day even though all three defendants settle with me, my attorneys made off with around $600k and I got peanuts.
So I said to my wife, is this what you want to do? It will consume us for about two years and we are going to have to spend a lot of money to just get them into court. Yeah I'm pissed, but for the amount we are out it is not worth taking on the fight. We will just start using this new vet who seems to be extremely experienced with felines.
Rather then let a problem consume you, look past it to greener grass. Move on and enjoy every minute we have here.
My wife agreed yet she is not happy.
The lesson is educate yourself. People are just people and make mistakes. It's up to you to fact check them as well make sure what is being advised it the correct decision. Don't be afraid to question someone's advise.

Thought I would share what happened on Friday.

Hope everyone's kitties have a great day and surf safe

 

[LizzieInTexas]

What was the drug?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

What was the drug?

What you can do is register a complaint with your State's veterinary licensing board. Veterinary practice is regulated and the board is mandated to investigate complaints. If the vet is found to have committed malpractice, the vet's license can be suspended, revoked, or the vet can be otherwise sanctioned. Filing with the professional board can threaten the vet's livelihood. Usually, at license renewal time, a notice goes out to all other people in the profession informing them of those practitioners who have committed violations. It may be a good first step since if the board of professional regulation finds the vet did something wrong, you could threaten to sue with the idea that what you'd like is a settlement that would pay for Willow's diabetes treatment.

 

[Willow]

What was the drug?

Note sure the name of the drug
It's in our records, the old vet had told us because Willow was 14 years old they had to use a special drug that cost a lot more, we not knowing anything said okay go ahead.
The new vet said that drug is known for problems with older cats.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Note sure the name of the drug
It's in our records, the old vet had told us because Willow was 14 years old they had to use a special drug that cost a lot more, we not knowing anything said okay go ahead.
The new vet said that drug is known for problems with older cats.

Omg, the old vet charged you extra to screw up????

 

[Willow]

What was the drug?

What you can do is register a complaint with your State's veterinary licensing board. Veterinary practice is regulated and the board is mandated to investigate complaints. If the vet is found to have committed malpractice, the vet's license can be suspended, revoked, or the vet can be otherwise sanctioned. Filing with the professional board can threaten the vet's livelihood. Usually, at license renewal time, a notice goes out to all other people in the profession informing them of those practitioners who have committed violations. It may be a good first step since if the board of professional regulation finds the vet did something wrong, you could threaten to sue with the idea that what you'd like is a settlement that would pay for Willow's diabetes treatment.

That's a great ideal, I did not know they had this board. I'll look into it next week. I'll need to get all my ducks in a row with all the records and proof before submitting any complaint.
My only concern is their board like the Real Estate BRE, I say this because our BRE is a joke. I'm a RE broker and have filed complaints against others, by the time the BRE started to investigate it was four years later and brokers are not required to keep their records this long. In the end nothing happens. Our local board about 7'years ago finally put teeth into fines against others for violations. This of course was not until I threaten to go after every brokerage and do the same to their companies as what was done to mine knowing the fines are so small it would be worth committing the crimes against them. The previous max fine was $2500, it's now $25,000 per violation.

 

[Willow]

Omg, the old vet charged you extra to screw up????

Yep.
Year to date I have spent $15,100 on vets and meds for Willow. Let alone they almost killed her in the beginning and that is where so much money was spent.

If it was not for this website and these members I don't think Willow would be here.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

She said the drug they used on her is known to damage or kill a cats pancreas if used on older felines

What is the drug name?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Every state is different since licensing regulations vary by state. Fundamentally, ignoring a published warning and worse, not informing you that there was a warning about a drug so you could make an informed decision about whether to have the drug administered, is malpractice. It's why when someone says their vet wants to give their cat Metacam, we jump up and down and tell people to let their vet know an NSAID is not acceptable especially not Metacam which carried an FDA black box warning regarding acute kidney failure in cats. The last vet that gave me an argument I asked how much that vet wanted to pay off my mortgage, car loan, and provide me with an annuity so I wouldn't have to work any more.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

It looks like all of us would like to know the name of this drug (and avoid it!) Would you contact the new vet asap and let us know, please?

This is from the Cornell University Vet School:

While diabetes mellitus can affect any cat, it most often occurs in older, obese cats. Male cats are more commonly afflicted than females. The exact cause of the disease in cats is not known, although obesity (the major predisposing condition), chronic pancreatitis, other hormonal diseases (e.g., hyperthyroidism, Cushing's disease, and acromegaly), and certain medications (e.g., megestrol acetate and corticosteroids like prednisolone) have all been linked to the disease. Burmese cats in New Zealand, Australia, and the United Kingdom are prone to developing to diabetes, but this doesn't appear to be the case in North America.
​

Punkin had acromegaly, which is associated with flame retardants. No idea where he might have gotten exposed, or if that was even the cause of his pituitary tumor. How can one avoid being exposed to flame retardants?

I'll be curious to hear what you learn.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

associated with flame retardants. No idea where he might have gotten exposed

Carpet.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

you can also go leave rotten reviews on google... and yelp... and any other social media.....


unfortunately, if you went to court, pets are considered property, so the best you would get is whatever you paid for the pet . That's the law.
It sucks.

But you can warn others thru reviews....

 

[Glennie]

So very sorry. How awful for you! I feel like they need to put a warning on high carb dry cat food too.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Carpet.

It's in the stuffing of upholstered furniture too.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Punkin had acromegaly, which is associated with flame retardants. No idea where he might have gotten exposed

Does he eat fish?
Oceans are polluted with fire retardants and so is the fish.

Here is the interesting article with details: http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-deep-sea-pollution-20170215-story.html

And another one that says that these flame retardants are in use because some products are required to be flame resistant, for example, furniture and many children's products. http://www.oceanfutures.org/action/toxic-flame-retardants

I have heard that the fish products are often fed to the farm chickens but I couldn't find any info on that. If it so, then chances are that chickens , another source of cat food, are contaminated thru the food chain in the same way the fish is.

We live in polluted world.

 

[Willow]

Hi everyone,
I just spoke with the new vet and asked why she thought the old vet caused Willow to get diabetes.
When we first got Willow and took her to the vet she was infested with fleas and covered in scabs. The vet gave Willow a steroid shot ( depometro) at least that is how I think it is spelled. She said a side affect of that drug is it can cause diabetes in felines. She said some felines revert back while others don't. It was in our records of what they gave her, when she noticed they had used that drug on her it raised a red flag and this is why she started asking me a lot more questions and the time line.

Hope this helps others


@Tanya and Ducia @julie & punkin (ga) @Glennie @rhiannon and shadow (GA) @LizzieInTexas @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Thank you for posting the update on drug. It's good to know.
Sending Willow healing vines for strength getting well soon!

 

[Willow]

Thank you for posting the update on drug. It's good to know.
Sending Willow healing vines for strength getting well soon!

Willow and I both thank you!
It's so frustrating to think that we caused this by bringing her to that vet. Rather than beating myself up, I'm learning from this lesson. The new vet is a cat clinic and this is where we should have taken her in the first place.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

Gizmo was put on 30 days of steroids (1/day) for his pancreatitis. More than likely it contributed to his FD -BUT he also might not have lived without it. It was possibly one of the contributing factors. They put him on Hills k/d (extremely HC) and potassium gel that has sugar in it. This was all at the same time.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

It's so frustrating to think that we caused this by bringing her to that vet. Rather than beating myself up

I don't think you are being fair to yourself. She wasn't well and you took her to a vet. It was the only thing to do as I see it.
It is more frustrating to learn how many vets act irresponsibly.I hope you will post the story online and hit the vet with nasty review that he/she deserves so others can avoid what happened to Willow.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

steroids are used for multiple issues. kitties with asthma have to have it.
Fortunately, FD is a manageable disease.

 

[Willow]

Gizmo was put on 30 days of steroids (1/day) for his pancreatitis. More than likely it contributed to his FD -BUT he also might not have lived without it. It was possibly one of the contributing factors. They put him on Hills k/d (extremely HC) and potassium gel that has sugar in it. This was all at the same time.

Not all steroids are the same, they can act differently. The name of the one that was used on Willow from what the vet said has a known side affect.
Sorry to hear about Gizmo

 

[Willow]

I don't think you are being fair to yourself. She wasn't well and you took her to a vet. It was the only thing to do as I see it.
It is more frustrating to learn how many vets act irresponsibly.I hope you will post the story online and hit the vet with nasty review that he/she deserves so others can avoid what happened to Willow.

Already did

 

[Willow]

steroids are used for multiple issues. kitties with asthma have to have it.
Fortunately, FD is a manageable disease.

Very true. Their are also many different kinds of steroids with a host of side affects, and not everyone is affected the same way.
Willow also now has asthma and I have to use an inhaler on her twice a day.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Steroids are a known cause of FD, but steroids are typically only used when a cat really needs them. Hindsight always seems so clear, but I think all any of us can do is to make the best decision we can, with what we know then.

I wouldn't be too hard on either your vet or yourself about it.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Does he eat fish?
Oceans are polluted with fire retardants and so is the fish.

Here is the interesting article with details: http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-deep-sea-pollution-20170215-story.html

And another one that says that these flame retardants are in use because some products are required to be flame resistant, for example, furniture and many children's products. http://www.oceanfutures.org/action/toxic-flame-retardants
http://www.oceanfutures.org/action/toxic-flame-retardants
I have heard that the fish products are often fed to the farm chickens but I couldn't find any info on that. If it so, then chances are that chickens , another source of cat food, are contaminated thru the food chain in the same way the fish is.

We live in polluted world.

Ugh, that is so discouraging. Thanks for sharing the article. The implications are frightening for some of the things we allow to contaminate us.

Punkin didn't eat much plain fish, but I don't know now what was in his cat food before he became diabetic from the acromegaly. He'd had recurrent annual bladder infections and the vet had put him on one of those prescription dry foods that was supposed to be easy on the bladder. So ironic, of course, because once he became diabetic I learned about dry foods here and on catinfo.org, and when he only ate canned food he never had another bladder infection.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Depo Medrol is a long acting steroid. Usually a shot will last about 4 weeks in the system. Any steroid can initiate FD in a non-diabetic kitty that is predisposed to it. Depo Medrol may show steroid induced diabetes sooner, because the shot is in a more concentrated form because of the long lasting effect. Usually when a kitty is treated with steroids for another condition it is an ongoing process, so the longer a kitty is on steroids, the greater the chances of it leading to FD.

However, some kitties do require steroids to treat other conditions, and it becomes a fine balancing act between the pre-existing condition and the chance of FD developing. James... it is not your fault at all that this may have caused Willow to end up diabetic. Depo-Medrol is a commonly used steroid because it only has to be given once to cover a longer time frame....similar to why vets and people often opt for convenia as an antibiotic. You should have been told that ANY steroid brings a danger of side effects but if the skin was in such bad shape at that time because of the flea bites, using steroids would have been a normal approach. One of my FD kitties had some bad breathing issues and was put on a short run of steroids (prednisolone) to see if that would help. Using steroids on a kitty who already has FD is always a hard decision, but sometimes it is necessary.

If the depo medrol was the initiating cause of Willow's diabetes, then hopefully with time her pancreas can heal and with luck she can recover from steroid induced FD. But do not blame yourself and in some ways the vet was following an established protocol for the skin treatment in kitties.

 

[Willow]

Depo Medrol is a long acting steroid. Usually a shot will last about 4 weeks in the system. Any steroid can initiate FD in a non-diabetic kitty that is predisposed to it. Depo Medrol may show steroid induced diabetes sooner, because the shot is in a more concentrated form because of the long lasting effect. Usually when a kitty is treated with steroids for another condition it is an ongoing process, so the longer a kitty is on steroids, the greater the chances of it leading to FD.

However, some kitties do require steroids to treat other conditions, and it becomes a fine balancing act between the pre-existing condition and the chance of FD developing. James... it is not your fault at all that this may have caused Willow to end up diabetic. Depo-Medrol is a commonly used steroid because it only has to be given once to cover a longer time frame....similar to why vets and people often opt for convenia as an antibiotic. You should have been told that ANY steroid brings a danger of side effects but if the skin was in such bad shape at that time because of the flea bites, using steroids would have been a normal approach. One of my FD kitties had some bad breathing issues and was put on a short run of steroids (prednisolone) to see if that would help. Using steroids on a kitty who already has FD is always a hard decision, but sometimes it is necessary.

If the depo medrol was the initiating cause of Willow's diabetes, then hopefully with time her pancreas can heal and with luck she can recover from steroid induced FD. But do not blame yourself and in some ways the vet was following an established protocol for the skin treatment in kitties.

Hi

Thank you,
What is so frustrating is everything that vet put us through after she got FD, if I had not taken control they would have killed her. They simple did not have that much experience with dealing with FD. They had her on fast acting insulin, no instructions on checking her BG. It seemed like after going there Willow would have more and more problems until I completely took over and found you guys on this website.

When my old vet seen my spreadsheet and that I was doing increases and decreases with her insulin based on her numbers, she advised me that I should follow what the vet has prescribed and only the vet should be advising how much insulin she should be given. Let's see, the same advises that almost killed Willow? That caused me a ridiculous amount of vet bills? So Sorry, no can do, besides I have an army of crazy cat lovers who are battle tested with FD advising me. I'll take their advises any day of the week over a vet who has little to no experience with FD. They have been correct 100% of the time and your office? Not so much. They have been there and done that with FD and are kind enough to help others.

The new vet seen my spreadsheet and said wow, good job staying on top of this. She wanted a copy so she could see what I have been doing. When I explained to her that I have been dealing with some reductions because she hit the 30bg range, she said good job and how is she doing on the reduction? A completely different experience with the new vet.

I would like to again thank everyone on here for all of their help and support with myself and others. You folks are truly a great group of people who care.
Thank you!

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

Good morning


The new vet asked me to explain everything that has gone on from the day we got Willow about a year and half ago.
The vet honed in on Willows surgery when we got her fixed, she asked did Willow have debities before? Any history of it? how long afterwards until she was diagnosed with having diabetes? One to two months, why?
She said the drug they used on her is known to damage or kill a cats pancreas if used on older felines. It's right in the warning label. She says they most likely caused her to have this.

Wait a minute, are you sure? She replied yeah, if that drug is used on older cats their is a high chance it will damage their pancreas. So yes I'm sure.
Ever watched a cartoon where steam blows out the ears and then their head blows up? That was me right then.
How upset would you be?
My wife said to me we should sue the old vet. People always say this when they have never been in real litigation. I had to explain to my wife that the last time I took on a major lawsuit it cost me $250k and took two years to get them into court. My business took a nosedive during them two years and at the end of the day even though all three defendants settle with me, my attorneys made off with around $600k and I got peanuts.
So I said to my wife, is this what you want to do? It will consume us for about two years and we are going to have to spend a lot of money to just get them into court. Yeah I'm pissed, but for the amount we are out it is not worth taking on the fight. We will just start using this new vet who seems to be extremely experienced with felines.
Rather then let a problem consume you, look past it to greener grass. Move on and enjoy every minute we have here.
My wife agreed yet she is not happy.
The lesson is educate yourself. People are just people and make mistakes. It's up to you to fact check them as well make sure what is being advised it the correct

It's a wise decision to forgo litigation. I think you might want to submit a document of complaint to your state's veterinary board.

As to educating oneself, well, how on earth would you have been able to verify the best anesthesia for Willow? You would have to know that anesthesia varies, that certain forms of it are best for certain cat populations and which forms are best for which populations, and that the choice of anesthesia can be critical. Frankly, most of us don't know any of that until it's too late.

The only recourse most of us have, beyond attending vet school, is to research our vet. And that's not easy to do either. Excellent word of mouth recommendations could simply mean that an otherwise semi-competent vet, is very charming. I really have no answer, and I have had several cats die, because of doctor errors.

At least Willow is in good hands now, and she seems to be plugging along.

 

[Willow]

It's a wise decision to forgo litigation. I think you might want to submit a document of complaint to your state's veterinary board.

As to educating oneself, well, how on earth would you have been able to verify the best anesthesia for Willow? You would have to know that anesthesia varies, that certain forms of it are best for certain cat populations and which forms are best for which populations, and that the choice of anesthesia can be critical. Frankly, most of us don't know any of that until it's too late.

The only recourse most of us have, beyond attending vet school, is to research our vet. And that's not easy to do either. Excellent word of mouth recommendations could simply mean that an otherwise semi-competent vet, is very charming. I really have no answer, and I have had several cats die, because of doctor errors.

At least Willow is in good hands now, and she seems to be plugging along.

Hi

Thanks
It turns out it was the steroid that used on her for her skin rash. Apparently this is common practice in dealing with this kind of problem. The rest of her stuff could have helped as well. My new vet said they have to be carful what is given to older cats and let the owner know of possible side affects.